HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Tampa Bay Lightning
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

VL to LA trade proposal

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-23-2009, 05:24 AM
  #26
LaLaLand
Registered User
 
LaLaLand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 844
vCash: 500
I think Vinny would strive in LA and think of the wonders he could do mentoring Kopy .. This being said I see the trade looking like:

JMFJ
Moller
Boyle
Stoll

=

Vinny

LaLaLand is offline  
Old
05-24-2009, 04:42 PM
  #27
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkoalMan11 View Post
I think Vinny would strive in LA and think of the wonders he could do mentoring Kopy .. This being said I see the trade looking like:

JMFJ
Moller
Boyle
Stoll

=

Vinny
I don't think the Kings can get him unless the #5 pick in the draft is included, and I would like to hang onto Stoll. Blood and guts player, great faceoff man, and plays the point on the PP.

KINGS17 is offline  
Old
05-24-2009, 04:47 PM
  #28
CSampson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,212
vCash: 500
Holy **** at OP crying because he makes a terrible proposal. What were you expecting? In any case if Lecavalier goes you're looking at:

JJ
King's 1st round 2009
x

x is another player, someone like a Frolov. Then you're getting close to Vinny. At least that's what I would like to see if he gets moved.

CSampson is offline  
Old
05-24-2009, 11:46 PM
  #29
LaLaLand
Registered User
 
LaLaLand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 844
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I don't think the Kings can get him unless the #5 pick in the draft is included, and I would like to hang onto Stoll. Blood and guts player, great faceoff man, and plays the point on the PP.
Yah I dont wanna lose stoll either but with vinny in our system, we have Kopy, Vinny, Zeus " NMC" i think it has to be stoll for the cap hit imo .. For the pick , I kno but i really want MSP haha

LaLaLand is offline  
Old
05-25-2009, 06:59 PM
  #30
The Fear Boners
Plz stop pucks
 
The Fear Boners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scrip Club
Country: United States
Posts: 20,039
vCash: 500
The more this goes on the more I think Vinny doesn't get moved.

The Fear Boners is offline  
Old
05-25-2009, 07:21 PM
  #31
Going Back to Cally
Sons of Pirates
 
Going Back to Cally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: St.Pete, Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 28,735
vCash: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeBearMountain View Post
The more this goes on the more I think Vinny doesn't get moved.
Why?

Going Back to Cally is offline  
Old
05-25-2009, 09:24 PM
  #32
BadHammy*
MSL For Hart!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Right Behind Me!
Posts: 10,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeBearMountain View Post
The more this goes on the more I think Vinny doesn't get moved.
If he isn't traded on draft day or before, it's not happening...

BadHammy* is offline  
Old
05-25-2009, 09:32 PM
  #33
The Fear Boners
Plz stop pucks
 
The Fear Boners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scrip Club
Country: United States
Posts: 20,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaWrista View Post
If he isn't traded on draft day or before, it's not happening...
Well obviously.

The Fear Boners is offline  
Old
05-25-2009, 09:33 PM
  #34
BadHammy*
MSL For Hart!
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Right Behind Me!
Posts: 10,444
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeBearMountain View Post
Well obviously.
I'm saying before the draft starts. We're not gonna see a trade the moment the #2 pick is supposed to be announced. No such suspense will occur.

BadHammy* is offline  
Old
05-25-2009, 09:33 PM
  #35
Going Back to Cally
Sons of Pirates
 
Going Back to Cally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: St.Pete, Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 28,735
vCash: 286
If he isn't traded by the day he retires it's not happening.

Going Back to Cally is offline  
Old
05-25-2009, 09:38 PM
  #36
The Fear Boners
Plz stop pucks
 
The Fear Boners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scrip Club
Country: United States
Posts: 20,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Why?
I have no factual evidence to back my thoughts up but... I just don't see it happening for some reason.

The Fear Boners is offline  
Old
05-25-2009, 10:05 PM
  #37
Reaper45
Registered User
 
Reaper45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Bay
Country: United States
Posts: 30,742
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Reaper45
I don't think the league would announce it before the end of the Stanley Cup finals.

Reaper45 is offline  
Old
05-26-2009, 05:24 AM
  #38
garmonbozia
Registered User
 
garmonbozia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 596
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
Why?


1. Overturns a major long term commitment less than a year old (before it even fully goes into effect). The contract was negotiated and extended by this current ownership group. The contract combined with the Captaincy were two of the brighter points of last offseason and demonstrated the teams commitment to Vinny. His signing it rather than exploring other options demonstrated his commitment to the franchise. Commitments of this magnitude, duration, and cost are rarely overturned so soon (historically).

2. All the teams PR says it won't. Would they say as much if they were intending to move him? Sure. But aside from just the "Not intending to trade Vinny, will listen to offers of overpayment" type comments, even the stated goals or general direction they seem to want to take the team implies a trade of him to be unlikely. Jumping back up into the divisional/playoff race implies they want to add to the core they have rather than overhaul it for a more long term looking rebuild.

3. The PR backlash would be nasty. Would lose more fans than gain from it, even with a 'good' or 'fair' deal. Even if the return met most of the hypothesized criteria, lots of NHL ready, young, cost effective talent; it would still be very tough for the fans to renew their support of the team again until it started winning. Yes, that might be an issue anyway after two horrible seasons in a row. It would be magnified with the loss of the "face of the franchise".

4. Top 10 talent. Pessimists might knock him down in imaginary lists of current greats based on this past season, but I still see the skills, size, and speed of an Elite NHL talent. Healthy and happy he brings what very few other 1st line centers in the league are even capable of. Rare are the occasions that talents of his magnitude are traded.

5. Asking price too high, rightfully so. Other GMs will balk at giving away their most prized NHL ready prospects, current low-cost NHL stars, and/or upcoming 1st round pick(s).
Shenn+7th+____
Doughty+5th+____
Phaneuf+???
Weber+
Those are the types of deals I'd see the team looking for, and also the types of propositions no sane GM can realistically entertain. People make fun of HF posters for overvalueing young talent, but I guarantee Burke, Lombardi, Sutter, Poile, and whomever else might be interested values the combinations in the above molds more. Also, rightfully so.

6. The contract is fair market value. Yes, some better players make less. Yes, some worse players make nearly as much, or more. The duration is the biggest potential problem of this deal, the cap hit and actual dollar amounts are acceptable and manageable moving forward. Until the team has needs of signing other developing superstars (Stamkos, this years 1st, random developing D that breakout between now and then) the money paid to Lecavalier shouldn't really be the issue others like to make it out to be. I believe by the time it is a relevant concern other avenues for working around it will have opened up.

7. He's a necessary component for competing in the Southeast division.

8. Because I really don't want him to be traded. I guess I'm just selfish like that.

9. Because I can't get enough of other teams fans hairbrained ideas of why he could, should, would, be the saving grace of their respective franchises good fortunes if only those know-nothing-unworthy-sunshine-staters would realize they need to move him for this pile of crap+halak and a 2nd.

10. Because I believe and have faith in something I cannot possibly know for certain.



So, Patrick, I've seen you state you're "almost 100% sure he will be traded" this offseason. Although a response might require more than 'posted from a mobile device' is capable of, I'd really like to hear why you (or anyone else) are so damned sure he will be.

garmonbozia is offline  
Old
05-26-2009, 06:26 AM
  #39
Felonious Python
Moderator
Purple Squirrel
 
Felonious Python's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: The Hot Seat
Posts: 13,142
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
I don't think the league would announce it before the end of the Stanley Cup finals.
They couldn't. The trade deadline is still in effect.

Felonious Python is offline  
Old
05-26-2009, 06:38 AM
  #40
Going Back to Cally
Sons of Pirates
 
Going Back to Cally's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: St.Pete, Florida
Country: United States
Posts: 28,735
vCash: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
They couldn't. The trade deadline is still in effect.
Teams can trade again as soon as their season ends.

Going Back to Cally is offline  
Old
05-26-2009, 09:14 AM
  #41
Reaper45
Registered User
 
Reaper45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: South Bay
Country: United States
Posts: 30,742
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Reaper45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Felonious Python View Post
They couldn't. The trade deadline is still in effect.
No it's not. You can trade as soon as your season is over, but it's an unwritten rule that you don't make any announcements until the playoffs are over.

Reaper45 is offline  
Old
05-26-2009, 07:45 PM
  #42
Mr Underhill
Registered User
 
Mr Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,669
vCash: 500
I hate admit it folks but Vinny being traded is the best thing that can happen to this club. They simply dont have the depth or financial assets at this time to compete the way that is necessary to create proper merchandise and ticket revenue.

They Lightning are blessed with a golden opportunity to turn it all around in one summer. If they miss out on this they might regret it for years.

Trade Vinny to LA for Jack Johnson, 5th overall, Oscar Moller, Jarret Stoll. Have to include Stoll because the Lightning will most likely have to take back salary.

Draft Hedman (or Tavares) and MSP.

That gives us 2 top pairing defenseman, a top six RW, a top six LW, and a second line center for now.

That was all done through draft and trades and not one dollar spent on FA yet.

Future Core:
Stamkos
Hedman
St. Louis (C)
Malone (A)
MSP
Jack Johnson
Moller
Mez (A)
Ranger
Smith
Lashoff
Smaby
Downie
Arty

Future Lineup:

Malone - Stamkos - St. Louis
MSP - Stoll - Moller
Arty - XXXXX - Downie

JMFJ - Hedman
Mez - Ranger
Lashoff - Smaby

Smith

Prospal and any other veteran or player that no longer has a spot in the future can be dealt for whatever value they have.

St. Louis will stay aboard as the leader and captain of the team until he decides to retire and pass it on to Stammer or the Bolts are able to trade him in a deal with a worthy return.

Also, I didnt include any FA signings or trades. Maybe a veteran D-Man to mentor the group would be nice. Or Lawton said to keep an eye out for a trade involving the team that signs Bouwmeester.

Mr Underhill is offline  
Old
05-26-2009, 07:55 PM
  #43
bassassin
Registered User
 
bassassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: England
Country: England
Posts: 5,391
vCash: 500
The youth thing has really been working well for LA hasnt it? Why do we want that problem as well with 3 of our top 6 forwards unable to drink, let alone be relied upon to create a legit scoring threat game in game out

Edit: But you are right on one thing, they do have a golden opportunity to turn it around this summer...Keep Lecavalier, stop the turmoil that has surrounded the team for the past season, bring some stability. Let the team develop chemistry, take a Feaster approach and sit on your ass in regards to the roster, while maybe adding some cheap vets.

bassassin is offline  
Old
05-26-2009, 08:10 PM
  #44
Mr Underhill
Registered User
 
Mr Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,669
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
The youth thing has really been working well for LA hasnt it? Why do we want that problem as well with 3 of our top 6 forwards unable to drink, let alone be relied upon to create a legit scoring threat game in game out

Edit: But you are right on one thing, they do have a golden opportunity to turn it around this summer...Keep Lecavalier, stop the turmoil that has surrounded the team for the past season, bring some stability. Let the team develop chemistry, take a Feaster approach and sit on your ass in regards to the roster, while maybe adding some cheap vets.
Its worked real well for Chicago!

Do you really think this team is going to be able to compete for a cup? and if not, what are you going to be happy with?

You mention a lack of scoring threats, but what do you think we have now? We have one option, and that is whatever line St. Louis is on. If he is up with Vinny then that line will be great but you take the risk of ruining the chemistry that him and Stammer had and possibly slowing Stammers growth. Plus the other wings he have arent dinamic scorers either, so our second line will be mediocre at best. Or, you can leave Marty with Stamkos and have exactly what we had at the end of last year, someone who shouldnt be playing top line minutes flanking Vinny. We simply dont have the depth.

How do you think we're going to fix all these problems and fill all these holes?

Mr Underhill is offline  
Old
05-26-2009, 08:42 PM
  #45
The Fear Boners
Plz stop pucks
 
The Fear Boners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scrip Club
Country: United States
Posts: 20,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by antdvda View Post
Its worked real well for Chicago!

Do you really think this team is going to be able to compete for a cup? and if not, what are you going to be happy with?

You mention a lack of scoring threats, but what do you think we have now? We have one option, and that is whatever line St. Louis is on. If he is up with Vinny then that line will be great but you take the risk of ruining the chemistry that him and Stammer had and possibly slowing Stammers growth. Plus the other wings he have arent dinamic scorers either, so our second line will be mediocre at best. Or, you can leave Marty with Stamkos and have exactly what we had at the end of last year, someone who shouldnt be playing top line minutes flanking Vinny. We simply dont have the depth.

How do you think we're going to fix all these problems and fill all these holes?
So we get all these top flight prospects for 1-3 years and then we're in trouble as these guys come up for contracts and we don't have the cap space to pay them. It goes a little deeper than just trading Vinny for some big name young guys.

If you're really interested in aiming this team for the future, you'd look at one big name prospect, the 5th from LA, and a bunch of lower picks. That would be gravy for us, LA has no real reason to do that, but they can afford it for one year.

Trading Vinny doesn't "turn it all around in one year". Not even close. It does help us restock a prospect pool that is incredibly thin, especially now with two guys who had legit chances at a roster spot going to the KHL. There are a lot of question marks for this team right now and as much as i'd like to see some young talented kids come over here for one contract, you have to remember you ARE getting rid of a talented commodity in Vinny.

Its interesting to say the least.

The Fear Boners is offline  
Old
05-26-2009, 09:06 PM
  #46
Mr Underhill
Registered User
 
Mr Underhill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,669
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrokeBearMountain View Post
So we get all these top flight prospects for 1-3 years and then we're in trouble as these guys come up for contracts and we don't have the cap space to pay them. It goes a little deeper than just trading Vinny for some big name young guys.

If you're really interested in aiming this team for the future, you'd look at one big name prospect, the 5th from LA, and a bunch of lower picks. That would be gravy for us, LA has no real reason to do that, but they can afford it for one year.

Trading Vinny doesn't "turn it all around in one year". Not even close. It does help us restock a prospect pool that is incredibly thin, especially now with two guys who had legit chances at a roster spot going to the KHL. There are a lot of question marks for this team right now and as much as i'd like to see some young talented kids come over here for one contract, you have to remember you ARE getting rid of a talented commodity in Vinny.

Its interesting to say the least.

Look dude, i never said it was fail proof. Of course there might be a contract issue in 5 years. But every team has to deal with that. So will Chicago. BUT...Chicago is making so much money right now that they will be able to deal with that issue.

If we keep Vinny and putz around in the 17th hole like Buffalo has been for the last couple years, we are in big trouble. The St. Louis decision will come up and the window for us to make a run might close real quick.

Mr Underhill is offline  
Old
05-26-2009, 09:24 PM
  #47
Tokala
Registered User
 
Tokala's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 2,871
vCash: 500
I like that people at least consider that moving Lecavalier is an option. I'm unsure if they stand to improve by making either commitment. I'm all for keeping him, being patient and trying to acquire the depth that they need to be a team on the bubble come March/April. I'm also all for dealing him, if it's a deal to good to pass up, and improving immediately. As much as I think these guys (Lawton, Koules, Barrie) don't know what they're doing; I sure as hell don't want their job right now.

I don't think trading Lecavalier will have as bad an effect on ticket sales the next few years, since they're going to struggle to sell tickets any ways being 30th & 29th back-to-back.

Tokala is offline  
Old
05-26-2009, 09:30 PM
  #48
The Fear Boners
Plz stop pucks
 
The Fear Boners's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Scrip Club
Country: United States
Posts: 20,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by antdvda View Post
Look dude, i never said it was fail proof. Of course there might be a contract issue in 5 years. But every team has to deal with that. So will Chicago. BUT...Chicago is making so much money right now that they will be able to deal with that issue.

If we keep Vinny and putz around in the 17th hole like Buffalo has been for the last couple years, we are in big trouble. The St. Louis decision will come up and the window for us to make a run might close real quick.
It has nothing to do with making money, it has to do with the salary cap. If we don't keep Vinny, trade for a bunch of kids that bust out and we can't pay them because of space, we're ****ed. If we keep Vinny and he flops, we're ****ed. So... hard to say what is the right choice.

The Fear Boners is offline  
Old
05-27-2009, 06:34 AM
  #49
Doctor Drej
Unregistered User
 
Doctor Drej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Quiet Room
Country: United States
Posts: 10,920
vCash: 500
so either way were ****ed.

Sweet.

Doctor Drej is offline  
Old
05-27-2009, 06:47 AM
  #50
brymel
HFBoards Sponsor
 
brymel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 630
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokala View Post
I don't think trading Lecavalier will have as bad an effect on ticket sales the next few years, since they're going to struggle to sell tickets any ways being 30th & 29th back-to-back.

I don't think ticket sales is the only issue. How many times can management sign someone to a large/long term deal, and then trade him before it kicks in, before they lose all credibility? What player/agent would want to sign any deal with them, or play for this team knowing their contract is signed with invisible ink?

brymel is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:50 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.