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Van - Phi (No Luongo)

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Old
05-19-2009, 05:27 PM
  #1
Luck 6
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Van - Phi (No Luongo)

Well, I've been looking around a while on Phillys behalf and it seems as if they are in need of a top 2 young defenseman and a goalie. Carter seems to be SOMEWHAT available from a fans perspective as Richards and Briere are already top 6 centerman, not to mention they have a good young player in Giroux.



What would Philly, and Canucks fans think of this?



TO VAN:

Carter



TO PHI:

Edler

Schnieder

2nd '09

2nd '10



Philly gets a young goalie who will be ready to step into the NHL next season, POSSIBLY as a starter. Regardless, Schnieder has just dominated the AHL and is a top goalie prospect. Then we have Edler, a 22 y/o 6'3 defenseman who is fairly mobile and very well rounded. He's good defensively and has a ROCKET of a shot.. Only 2mph away from the record at his age is great; he's also locked up for 4 more seasons at 3.25mil and is RFA at the end. They also get a 2nd round pick in 2 years which they don't currently have one.



Vancouver gets Carter, a goal scoring young center that they could really use. This deal may not make sense until Lu re-signs, but could be used as amunition to get him to re-sign.



Anyways.. Whatcha think?

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Old
05-19-2009, 05:29 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Anyways.. Whatcha think?
I don't think you really want to know what I think...unless you've mistaken Carter for Lupul...

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Old
05-19-2009, 05:42 PM
  #3
Luck 6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
I don't think you really want to know what I think...unless you've mistaken Carter for Lupul...
Well lets not go that far...

Edler>>>>>>>>>>>Lupul in terms of skill, age, contract, size..

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Old
05-19-2009, 05:46 PM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
Well lets not go that far...

Edler>>>>>>>>>>>Lupul in terms of skill, age, contract, size..
I never said Lupul is fair value in this trade. I just mentioned that if this trade proposal was for him you'd want to hear what I have to say a lot more.

Lupul is lazy, but he still is a young 25-30 goal scorer with potential for more.

Edler is more valuable than Lupul...no question.

That doesn't change the fact that this package is not going to get you Carter. Probably Briere...but not Carter.

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05-19-2009, 05:46 PM
  #5
Saren
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It would have to include our first this year for them to consider it.

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Old
05-19-2009, 05:46 PM
  #6
FlyLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
unless you've mistaken Carter for Lupul...
It is bad, but not that bad. If you really think we could get that much for Lupul, then you are retarded.

Turn one of those 2nd's into firsts, and maybe its even in value. But there is no way that the Flyers are trading Carter away.

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Old
05-19-2009, 05:47 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
It is bad, but not that bad. If you really think we could get that much for Lupul, then you are retarded.

Turn one of those 2nd's into firsts, and maybe its even in value. But there is no way that the Flyers are trading Carter away.
Didn't say we could get that much for Lupul. Can't even get Edler for Lupul.

Doesn't change the fact that Carter does not belong there.

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Old
05-19-2009, 05:51 PM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Didn't say we could get that much for Lupul. Can't even get Edler for Lupul.

Doesn't change the fact that Carter does not belong there.
the value really isn't that bad, if you replace one 2nd with a 1st you probably have a deal not withstanding the fact that I highly doubt the Flyers consider trading Carter at this point.

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Old
05-19-2009, 05:55 PM
  #9
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Homer is not trading Carter. Unless some GM gets really creative and over pays for Jeff, then maybe.

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:01 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Didn't say we could get that much for Lupul. Can't even get Edler for Lupul.

Doesn't change the fact that Carter does not belong there.
Huh? You said "unless you've mistaken Carter for Lupul", in which case it would be all of that for Lupul. Don't see what else you could mean by saying something like that...

And it is a trade proposal for Carter, on a trade proposal board. Why does it matter if Carter belongs there or not? Nobody really gets traded here on HFBoards.

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:02 PM
  #11
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Would Vancouver be willing to change those picks to Cody Hodgson as a potential future replacement for Carter for the Flyers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
Huh? You said "unless you've mistaken Carter for Lupul", in which case it would be all of that for Lupul. Don't see what else you could mean by saying something like that...

And it is a trade proposal for Carter, on a trade proposal board. Why does it matter if Carter belongs there or not? Nobody really gets traded here on HFBoards.
True, but any interest in Lupul would make me happy at this point, and I still think this deal would be closer to happening if you took out Edler and changed Carter to Lupul.

"Fair value" is meaningless isn't it?

I mean if they would have to overpay for Carter, which they would, wouldn't that put Carter's value higher than what we assume to be "fair value"?

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:03 PM
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Schneider and Edler is not over paying?

Schneider might just be the best goalie in terms of talent, potential and contract, that's even remotely avaliable.

Edler is a young defensemen, prone to errors and misjudgement, but no doubt will have a solid career.

If anything, those picks shouldn't be included.

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:06 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Would Vancouver be willing to change those picks to Cody Hodgson as a potential future replacement for Carter for the Flyers?
Delete your post before you are flogged(!)

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:07 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1025 View Post
Schneider and Edler is not over paying?

Schneider might just be the best goalie in terms of talent, potential and contract, that's even remotely avaliable.

Edler is a young defensemen, prone to errors and misjudgement, but no doubt will have a solid career.

If anything, those picks shouldn't be included.
We have plenty of young defensemen that are prone to errors and misjudgement. In fact we have a lot of young, solid defensemen in the prospect pool. We need proven, and Edler is certainly more proven than any of our young prospects, but still not worth the our team leader in points and the runner up for the scoring title.

Schneider is still just a prospect goalie, and if history designates correctly then his value will likely drop the moment Luongo re-signs. If Luongo doesn't re-sign then the Canucks have no incentive to move him do they? His value to the team would be a lot higher than his value on the open market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
Delete your post before you are flogged(!)
Then I assume you now know what it's like for Carter to be in this proposal.

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:15 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
Then I assume you now know what it's like for Carter to be in this proposal.
It's not as bad as you're making it out to be (the original proposal). Hodgson is the only decent prospect we have left after we lose Schneider, not to mention the fact that Philly has amazing depth down the middle.

Off the top of my head:

Briere
Richards
Giroux

And whoever else I'm missing. Finding another replacement prospect after Cody is gone will be daunting.


Edler is emerging as that #1 two-way defender that he's been projected to be, and I haven't even started on that. He would already be a tough piece to swallow, as it leaves our defense old and immobile.

But ah, Carter isn't getting moved, so let's forget it.

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:19 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
It's not as bad as you're making it out to be (the original proposal). Hodgson is the only decent prospect we have left after we lose Schneider, not to mention the fact that Philly has amazing depth down the middle.

Off the top of my head:

Briere
Richards
Giroux

And whoever else I'm missing. Finding another replacement prospect after Cody is gone will be daunting.


Edler is emerging as that #1 two-way defender that he's been projected to be, and I haven't even started on that. He would already be a tough piece to swallow, as it leaves our defense old and immobile.

But ah, Carter isn't getting moved, so let's forget it.
I don't know, but I'm considering Gagne for this package since he might not even be in Philadelphia in two years, but then again he has an NTC.

Any chance a package involving Schneider and Edler would make sense for a sniping winger like Gagne?

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:20 PM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1025 View Post
Schneider and Edler is not over paying?

Schneider might just be the best goalie in terms of talent, potential and contract, that's even remotely avaliable.

Edler is a young defensemen, prone to errors and misjudgement, but no doubt will have a solid career.

If anything, those picks shouldn't be included.

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:28 PM
  #18
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Edler plays 20 minutes a night, how much more proven do you want?

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:32 PM
  #19
FlyLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1025 View Post
Schneider and Edler is not over paying?

Schneider might just be the best goalie in terms of talent, potential and contract, that's even remotely avaliable.

Edler is a young defensemen, prone to errors and misjudgement, but no doubt will have a solid career.

If anything, those picks shouldn't be included.
Carter just scored 46 goals, behind only a generational talent in Ovechkin. He is a huge body on the ice, plays solid defense, and has arguably the hardest wrist shot in the NHL.

That trumps any potential Schneider or Edler have (and yes, I know how good Edler is already). If you can't see that, then you are blind.

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:41 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
It's not as bad as you're making it out to be (the original proposal). Hodgson is the only decent prospect we have left after we lose Schneider, not to mention the fact that Philly has amazing depth down the middle.

Off the top of my head:

Briere
Richards
Giroux

And whoever else I'm missing. Finding another replacement prospect after Cody is gone will be daunting.


Edler is emerging as that #1 two-way defender that he's been projected to be, and I haven't even started on that. He would already be a tough piece to swallow, as it leaves our defense old and immobile.

But ah, Carter isn't getting moved, so let's forget it.
giroux isn't really a native center. to be honest, i hope the flyers acquire a legit 3rd line center so giroux can get back to his native position. briere is better off a winger as well. so essentially, our top 2 centers are richards and carter, which is essential when our biggest rival at the moment is a pittsburgh team with crosby and malkin.

maybe switch the picks to kesler?

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:44 PM
  #21
The Pucks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
Carter just scored 46 goals, behind only a generational talent in Ovechkin. He is a huge body on the ice, plays solid defense, and has arguably the hardest wrist shot in the NHL.

That trumps any potential Schneider or Edler have (and yes, I know how good Edler is already). If you can't see that, then you are blind.
Next season will be the litmus test for Jeff Carter. He had an amazing season in 08-09, but now he has to solidify it to achieve such lofty standards. Philly fans seem quite sure they have Rocket Richard on their hands while other teams fans seem a bit more skeptical, looking at players like Jonathan Cheechoo as boom, bust guys.

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:46 PM
  #22
Armond White
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Flyers fans shouting exaggerated claims of Carter's untouchability aside, it's not that bad a deal.

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:47 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Pucks View Post
Next season will be the litmus test for Jeff Carter. He had an amazing season in 08-09, but now he has to solidify it to achieve such lofty standards. Philly fans seem quite sure they have Rocket Richard on their hands while other teams fans seem a bit more skeptical, looking at players like Jonathan Cheechoo as boom, bust guys.
Yeah I don't think it's fair to say he's cemented himself at this level but anyone who watches knows he's nothing like Cheechoo.

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:50 PM
  #24
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Carter is teh Flyers only size at center and we have to go against Malkin, Crosby, the two Stalls, Oveckin, and the Bruins all in teh east. We need his size, especially aginst teh pens

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Old
05-19-2009, 06:51 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheektovanek View Post
Flyers fans shouting exaggerated claims of Carter's untouchability aside, it's not that bad a deal.
I think that it would be fair if the 2009 2nd were a 1st instead. Carter is still RFA at the end of his deal, too.

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