HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Toronto Maple Leafs
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Thoughts - J.J for Stralman?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-20-2009, 01:24 AM
  #26
TMLeafer
Moderator
Komarov the Gaul
 
TMLeafer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hockey Mecca, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,112
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antropovsky View Post
Maybe you answered your own question... Oreskovic/Sifers brought completely different strengths to the table than Stralman.
Possibly. Perhaps their physical play was more noticeable than Stralman's. I'm not saying Oreskovic and Sifers didn't deserve it, just that I'd like to see Stralman get an extended look.

I loved what Oreskovic did by the way, hope we see more of him this upcoming season.

TMLeafer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 01:33 AM
  #27
richardn
Registered User
 
richardn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sault Ste. Marie
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,204
vCash: 500
How about Kubina straight up for Jack Johnson. LA gets a good quality dman to mix in with a very talented young d core.

Toronto sheds some salary and gets a risky home run type prospect.

richardn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 01:48 AM
  #28
MickKaine
Registered User
 
MickKaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 431
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardn View Post
How about Kubina straight up for Jack Johnson. LA gets a good quality dman to mix in with a very talented young d core.

Toronto sheds some salary and gets a risky home run type prospect.
How about they throw in the 5th overall pick?

MickKaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 02:09 AM
  #29
nuck
Axis of Evil
 
nuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: North Korea
Posts: 5,036
vCash: 500
JJ still could turn it around but he seems closer to being a bust than not. His -18 in just half a season shows no improvement from his rookie year. Aki Berg anyone?
I like his physical tools but am wondering if he has the classic ten cent head. On paper a Stralman for JJ deal favors the Kings. I really don't see enough in Johnson to be the center piece of a Lecavalier deal but he still has some big fans out there if Tampa is really talking that way. I know his play at the WHC got a lot of people talking but a 23% shooting average is tough to maintain When I look at him as a player I want him in my lineup more than Stralman but the stats tell me probably not.
I am pulling for him to have a big year, but I wouldn't trade for him. LA was not that bad of a place for a young player this season. He should have been better.

nuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 07:15 AM
  #30
StarBurns RIP
No Agenda
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 5,906
vCash: 500
I think it's a great idea and the type of move Brian Burke would like to make.

StarBurns RIP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 08:08 AM
  #31
Frankie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,164
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsInSeven View Post
I think it's a great idea and the type of move Brian Burke would like to make.
i agree. burke would pull the triger on this trade in a second if he could.

was stralman actually compared favourably to drew doughty and erik johnson in this thread? oh my.

unless the kings are planning on playing in the next world championships, i don't think they'd make this trade. stralman isn't bringing much to the table as far as trade value goes.

Frankie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 08:14 AM
  #32
sgupca
Registered User
 
sgupca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lloydminster, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeastOfTheBunch View Post
I think they could move Jack Johnson for Tomas Kaberle to try to fullfill that QB need . Or use Jack Johnson as the main piece of a trade for Vincent LeCavalier .
I'd do that if JJ wasn't such a pain in the a**

This kid is a problem where ever he goes, he either demands a trade or he'll decide he won't play.

He is an american boy who has all the talent in the world, but yet his father is in contract talks with the KHL and 'maybe' playing there next year.

I can't see Burke touching a guy like this, he likes character guys and JJ isn't one.

sgupca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 08:17 AM
  #33
NoamHemsky
Registered User
 
NoamHemsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
I'd do that if JJ wasn't such a pain in the a**

This kid is a problem where ever he goes, he either demands a trade or he'll decide he won't play.

He is an american boy who has all the talent in the world, but yet his father is in contract talks with the KHL and 'maybe' playing there next year.

I can't see Burke touching a guy like this, he likes character guys and JJ isn't one.
Interesting, sgupca, I hadn't heard that.

Intitially I was very surprised to see Rutherford trade JJ so quickly, but I think we are starting to see why now.

NoamHemsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 08:34 AM
  #34
sgupca
Registered User
 
sgupca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lloydminster, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoamHemsky View Post
Interesting, sgupca, I hadn't heard that.

Intitially I was very surprised to see Rutherford trade JJ so quickly, but I think we are starting to see why now.
I'll see if I can find an article about how the leafs tried to sign Tavares, i know the crossed a lot of legal lines and almost got themselves into a ton of trouble...but hey..it was worth a try.

And I agree, i never really understood why Rutherford traded JJ (and at the time the package seemed to be way too small) but i completely understand why, the kid is trouble.

If he were 100% and not an issue i'd have no problem giving up Kaberle or Kubina for him, but he is just too big of an issue.

sgupca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 08:36 AM
  #35
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 57,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by javier View Post
Since you guys mentioned it, it is quite funny how many HF posters were screaming "WTF IS RUTHERFORD THINKING?!!" when that JJ for Gleason deal went down. Lookiing at it now, Tim Gleason>>>>>>>>Jack Johnson. But that goes with the territory here on HF, where most posters would trade a proven NHL player for an embryo if they could.
Who's the father?

__________________
http://kuklaskorner.com/index.php/ps...e_corsi_issues

Desjardins estimates that about 40% of the game is captured by Corsi analysis.
ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 08:38 AM
  #36
NoamHemsky
Registered User
 
NoamHemsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,895
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
I'll see if I can find an article about how the leafs tried to sign Tavares, i know the crossed a lot of legal lines and almost got themselves into a ton of trouble...but hey..it was worth a try.

And I agree, i never really understood why Rutherford traded JJ (and at the time the package seemed to be way too small) but i completely understand why, the kid is trouble.

If he were 100% and not an issue i'd have no problem giving up Kaberle or Kubina for him, but he is just too big of an issue.
I think it's pretty safe to say that if he had a good head on his shoulders Rutherford wouldn't have dropped him like a hot potato, either.

NoamHemsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 08:41 AM
  #37
ULF_55
Global Moderator
 
ULF_55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Mountain Standard Ti
Posts: 57,349
vCash: 500
Even with all his head space, I don't think you'd land JJ without a huge payment.

I think it would take more than Kubina, at least something like Stralman and the Leafs' first.

They are still very high on him.

ULF_55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 08:45 AM
  #38
sgupca
Registered User
 
sgupca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lloydminster, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Even with all his head space, I don't think you'd land JJ without a huge payment.

I think it would take more than Kubina, at least something like Stralman and the Leafs' first.

They are still very high on him.
I think it would take at least Kubina, not our 1st.

JJ has made it clear he won't be back in LA next year, he doesn't like it there and wants to be traded or he'll sign in Russia....I think you'll see him traded for a solid top 2-4 D'man, someone like Kubina.

sgupca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 08:49 AM
  #39
Cheli
Registered User
 
Cheli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Toronto/Waterloo
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
I'll see if I can find an article about how the leafs tried to sign Tavares, i know the crossed a lot of legal lines and almost got themselves into a ton of trouble...but hey..it was worth a try.
Here are some article links on it:
http://www.thestar.com/Sports/NHL/article/270412
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rts/columnists

Cheli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 09:22 AM
  #40
sgupca
Registered User
 
sgupca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lloydminster, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
Thanks, i just came back on too post some...but these are pretty much the same thing.

sgupca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 11:03 AM
  #41
smoke meat pete*
VoiceofReason
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,905
vCash: 500
I'm not sure LA would give up JJ for one year of Kubina, and I'm quite certain most teams could offer a cheaper defenceman, signed longer who is about as good as Kubina.

smoke meat pete* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 11:37 AM
  #42
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 33,095
vCash: 500
If Johnson for Lecavalier is a possiblity, stupid as it is for the Lightning, then guys like Stralman and Kubina are non starters.

Stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 11:43 AM
  #43
richardn
Registered User
 
richardn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Sault Ste. Marie
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
If Johnson for Lecavalier is a possiblity, stupid as it is for the Lightning, then guys like Stralman and Kubina are non starters.
JJ would not be the center of the deal. I am sure LA would have to include the 5th overall, JJ and maybe some thing else to get Lecavalier. Remember this is a guy who was all ready traded for dirt cheap and has gone throgh a serious injury and not played that wel as a rookie and has an attutude probem.

richardn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 12:03 PM
  #44
Stephen
Registered User
 
Stephen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 33,095
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by richardn View Post
JJ would not be the center of the deal. I am sure LA would have to include the 5th overall, JJ and maybe some thing else to get Lecavalier. Remember this is a guy who was all ready traded for dirt cheap and has gone throgh a serious injury and not played that wel as a rookie and has an attutude probem.
Well I remember Lombardi saying he was willing to trade the 5th pick for an impact forward.

How about Lecavalier to LA for Johnson, the 1st and another prospect

Toronto trades Kaberle + to Tampa for the 5th.

Stephen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 12:26 PM
  #45
Konk
Registered User
 
Konk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,909
vCash: 500
Listen, at the same age Mike Komisarek was considered a bust and a huge let down, etc. etc. Now he's one of the top defensive defensemen in the game. Granted he had a terrible playoffs this year, but that's besides the point.

Not all defensemen step in like Dion Phaneuf. Jack has shown progress, he just came off major shoulder surgery. Typically any major surgery should be given a year to heal.

He just finished dominating the world championships for USA as their best defenseman (on a team with Ryan Suter, John-Michael Liles, Ron Hainsey, Keith Ballard). He'll be fine, he just needs proper coaching and development. He may not be Bobby Orr + The Hulk as the hype was made out to be, but he's still a great prospect with tools that guys like Stralman can only wish they had.

Konk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 02:03 PM
  #46
nuck
Axis of Evil
 
nuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Country: North Korea
Posts: 5,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Konk View Post
Listen, at the same age Mike Komisarek was considered a bust and a huge let down, etc. etc. Now he's one of the top defensive defensemen in the game. Granted he had a terrible playoffs this year, but that's besides the point.

Not all defensemen step in like Dion Phaneuf. Jack has shown progress, he just came off major shoulder surgery. Typically any major surgery should be given a year to heal.

He just finished dominating the world championships for USA as their best defenseman (on a team with Ryan Suter, John-Michael Liles, Ron Hainsey, Keith Ballard). He'll be fine, he just needs proper coaching and development. He may not be Bobby Orr + The Hulk as the hype was made out to be, but he's still a great prospect with tools that guys like Stralman can only wish they had.
I wouldn't really say he dominated the tournament. Hainsey, Brown and Backes were the coaches choice for top 3 on Team USA. Jack scored 7pts in 9 games and was physical but 5 goals on 21 shots is something even Bobby Orr couldn't sustain. His +1was tied for 6th best D on the club. He did show he could play at a higher level though, which didn't appear to be the case in LA. His shot is great but his on ice vision is reflected in his inability to make plays since College. If he isn't scoring he isn't contributing to the offense, as in less of a playmaker than Luke Schenn .
In the same tournament Stralman had 5 pts in 7 games and was a +7. No physical presence but he made plays and was more defensively aware than JJ.
The positive reviews from the WC and Jack's high draft status will keep his value up for a while, but he was worse defensely at 22 than the 18 year old Doughty. Based on the other young D that LA has, is it fair to blame his development on the club? The only mistake they may have made is not sending him to Manchester for the first half of this season.
Does he have the instincts to become defensively solid? Is his dad blaming his limited success on the club? If so that is a real problem as it implies he, and likely JJ, feel it isn't Jack who has to get better but rather his coaching. How do you fix that? Classic moron hockey dad.
He needs out of LA, but to a stronger club where he has respect for the coaching and where they can be patient and not rely on him to be that Bobby Orr/Hulk guy you were talking about Maybe Boston.

edit-I sort of see the Komisarek comparison, but Mike was less defensively shakey.
+4 as a 21 year old on a club where Markov and Rivet were in the - column.


Last edited by nuck: 05-20-2009 at 02:53 PM.
nuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 03:07 PM
  #47
Poggemon Destiny*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,601
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheli View Post
They said on TSN the other day that JJ might be packaged in a deal for Vinny.
This was discussed on hfboards several months ago.

Poggemon Destiny* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 05:19 PM
  #48
My Sweet Shadow
Registered User
 
My Sweet Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,653
vCash: 500
I'd rather pull a Kaberle for Johnson+.

My Sweet Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 05:32 PM
  #49
sgupca
Registered User
 
sgupca's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lloydminster, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,644
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Sweet Shadow View Post
I'd rather pull a Kaberle for Johnson+.
I think it would be a straight swap for Kaberle. I can't see us getting anymore from LA, and personally i'd be super happy if we could get him for Kaberle. Did you see how dominate JJ was at the worlds!

sgupca is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-20-2009, 05:41 PM
  #50
My Sweet Shadow
Registered User
 
My Sweet Shadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Sioux Lookout, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,653
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
I think it would be a straight swap for Kaberle. I can't see us getting anymore from LA, and personally i'd be super happy if we could get him for Kaberle. Did you see how dominate JJ was at the worlds!
Yes I saw him dominate 3 years ago at the worlds.

But, yes, I'd love a Kaberle for Johnson straight up deal.

My Sweet Shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:42 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.