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Old
05-20-2009, 05:46 PM
  #76
TeamTippett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Oh I'm slow? You lump the area in together and call it Metro., and the area I am talking about is also a solid mass of urban sprawl (no countryside in between) it is somehow different? All I was attempting to demonstrate is a team in Hamilton would be drawing on a larger population than a team from Glendale metro.
AGAIN, please stop!!! You have never visited the Vally, it's obvious.

Working from East to West - From Scottsdale, Phoenix, Glendale to Peoria is all one cont. urban sprawl.

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Old
05-20-2009, 05:47 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phogary Flayotes View Post
That doesn't account for the Phoenix metro itself though. A hell of alot more people than that!
According to the US Census population estimates, the Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale US Census MSA increased from 3,251,876 (2000 Census) to 4,281,899 (July 1, 2008 est) - an increase of 31.67%.

http://www.census.gov/popest/metro/t...EST2008-01.xls

Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ 4,281,899 4,165,921 4,035,176 3,873,404 3,715,972 3,595,488 3,494,554 3,387,790 3,278,776 3,251,887 3,251,876

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Old
05-20-2009, 05:49 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
Wow I never really payed attention to where Hamilton is located, no freakin wonder Buffalo and Toronto are up in arms. That'd be 3 NHL teams literally within 45 miles of each other.
Why would Sabre or Leaf fans worry? People in the area are already fans of their teams. Fans won't abandon their team.

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Old
05-20-2009, 05:51 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Why would Sabre or Leaf fans worry? People in the area are already fans of their teams. Fans won't abandon their team.
Thank you for making a point against a team in Hamilton. You're free to leave.

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Old
05-20-2009, 05:58 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by LetsGoCoyotes View Post
Thank you for making a point against a team in Hamilton. You're free to leave.
There is more in the area that can't get in to games than there is those that do. Thanks, see ya!

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Old
05-20-2009, 05:59 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinurgy View Post
FTA:
Quote:
Looking back over the Jets final seven seasons, their average attendance figures were well below the 15, 500 capacity of the old Winnipeg Arena. From 1989-90 to 1995-96 their average attendance hovered around 13,000.
I found that pretty interesting.
Cut-and-pasting from a post I made today in the BoH Winnipeg/MTS Centre thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209
The Jets attendance spiked up in '92-'93 (their third highest avg year) and then dropped up to and including their last lame duck year.

'90-'91: 12681
'91-'92: 12816
'92-'93: 13550
'93-'94: 13297
'94-'95: 13013
'95-'96: 11316

From the HockeyResearch.org attendance spreadsheet:

PHP Code:
AVERAGE ATTENDANCE          1976-77 1977-78 1978-79 1979-80 1980-81 1981-82 1982-83 1983-84
Winnipeg Jets                
-----   -----   -----   13284   13265   13382   12889   12400

AVERAGE ATTENDANCE          1984
-85 1985-86 1986-87 1987-88 1988-89 1989-90 1990-91 1991-92
Winnipeg Jets                12994   13620   13594   12681   12816   13106   12931   12931

AVERAGE ATTENDANCE          1992
-93 1993-94 1994-95 1995-96 1996-97 1997-98 1998-99 1999-00
Winnipeg Jets                13550   13297   13013   11316   
-----   -----   -----   ----- 

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Old
05-20-2009, 06:04 PM
  #82
Neely2005
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Audio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
Jim Balsillie to be on the FAN590 @ 6:05 PM Today

www.fan590.com

Then Click Listen Live.

Should be interesting...
http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?cont...20_180939_8176

Here's the Audio from the interview.


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Old
05-20-2009, 06:04 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Fans won't abandon their team.

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Old
05-20-2009, 06:07 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Why would Sabre or Leaf fans worry? People in the area are already fans of their teams. Fans won't abandon their team.
It's not the fans who are up in arms, it's the owners of the respective teams. Since it's been stated several times how "hockey crazy" Hamiltonians are, it's safe to assume they presently either follow the Leafs or the Sabres (maybe even the Redwings). Give them a team and they'll likely start following that team instead unless they are diehards. End result is Buffalo, Toronto and maybe Detroit losing fans. Also the NHL can't be that thrilled with the idea either because they gain no new fans and no new money because you'd just be spreading out existing money between 4 franchises (Toronto, Buffalo, Detroit and Hamilton) instead of 3.

I.e. The pie has not grown larger, it's just been divided up by one more.

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Old
05-20-2009, 06:10 PM
  #85
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Just a reminder: feel free to attack ideas, but don't attack people.

This is obviously a heated issue, but there's no reason not to be tactful and civil. There is, however, a reason to be tactful and civil, and that's to avoid infractions and thread bans.

Play nice.

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Old
05-20-2009, 06:18 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?cont...20_180939_8176

Here's the Audio from the interview.

Is Balsillie related to Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf?

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Old
05-20-2009, 06:20 PM
  #87
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i may be late with this but this but... from TSN:

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=279359

"John Breslow has notified the NHL that he plans to submit a bid to purchase the team from Jerry Moyes and keep it in the Phoenix suburb of Glendale."

"He is 100-per-cent not interested in moving the team," Cohen told the Globe and Mail. "He is interested in co-operating with the NHL and the city to keep the team in Glendale."

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Old
05-20-2009, 06:24 PM
  #88
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There are plenty of people who are hockey-crazy in Southern Ontario and either:

A) don't watch the NHL
B) watch it without really having a favorite team
C) have a favorite team that's nowhere close by (plenty of Oilers, Habs, Islanders and Bruins fans here).

I know a lot of people who fall under each of those categories, especially A and C.

You can't assume that just because you're a hockey fan in Southern Ontario that you're automatically a Leafs, Sabres or Red Wings fan. In fact, you can find more Leaf-haters in Southern Ontario than you'll find fans of local hockey teams in other cities.

Then you have to take into account that Southern Ontario has a big influx of immigrants who don't even watch hockey and have never experienced the game live. HNIC realizes this market and is now in Punjabi on a seperate channel.

After all this, there are still a LOT of people who don't follow hockey at all even though they were born/raised here. Nowadays there's a lot of competition for the entertainment dollar - unlike the past.

The idea that Southern Ontario (or Canada) can't grow the game any further is wrong.

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Old
05-20-2009, 06:26 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berklon View Post
The idea that Southern Ontario (or Canada) can't grow the game any further is wrong.
As wrong as the idea that Phoenix can't grow the game.

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Old
05-20-2009, 06:26 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berklon View Post
The idea that Southern Ontario (or Canada) can't grow the game any further is wrong.
That may be, but the potential is still substantially greater in Arizona.

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Old
05-20-2009, 06:49 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berklon View Post
There are plenty of people who are hockey-crazy in Southern Ontario and either:

A) don't watch the NHL
B) watch it without really having a favorite team
C) have a favorite team that's nowhere close by (plenty of Oilers, Habs, Islanders and Bruins fans here).

I know a lot of people who fall under each of those categories, especially A and C.

You can't assume that just because you're a hockey fan in Southern Ontario that you're automatically a Leafs, Sabres or Red Wings fan. In fact, you can find more Leaf-haters in Southern Ontario than you'll find fans of local hockey teams in other cities.

Then you have to take into account that Southern Ontario has a big influx of immigrants who don't even watch hockey and have never experienced the game live. HNIC realizes this market and is now in Punjabi on a seperate channel.

After all this, there are still a LOT of people who don't follow hockey at all even though they were born/raised here. Nowadays there's a lot of competition for the entertainment dollar - unlike the past.

The idea that Southern Ontario (or Canada) can't grow the game any further is wrong.
Phoenix has the same thing that you are stating in A & C. How would it be any different in Hamilton other than it being located in Canada instead of Arizona?

There are a lot of hockey fans here that have not converted over to Coyotes fans because for the most part we have sucked. When we start winning plently of people will jump on the bandwagon.

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Old
05-20-2009, 07:16 PM
  #92
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Good article from the Edmonton Journal

http://www.canada.com/Things+will+on...286/story.html

Compelling reading, IMO.

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Old
05-20-2009, 07:17 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootThePuckCoyotes View Post
Phoenix has the same thing that you are stating in A & C. How would it be any different in Hamilton other than it being located in Canada instead of Arizona?

There are a lot of hockey fans here that have not converted over to Coyotes fans because for the most part we have sucked. When we start winning plently of people will jump on the bandwagon.

This shouldn't be the reason for fans to come on board, if you win fans will come. The team in Phoenix should have fans supporting them through good, and bad times. Bandwagon fans are the worst, it shows their lack of support for their favorite team.
Phoenix has had 12 years to put together a winning team and outside of a few playoff years, this franchise has been terriable and is losing 30 mill a year, it doesn't take a much to see why they are in the postition their in right now. I love this team but I also loved them when they were te Winnipeg franchise. It hurts as a longtime fan to hear that there is a chance they could be on the move again. Management of the past has been poor and so has the coaching staff. The only postitive thing you could look at, is the team's current G.M and crop of good young talent (included drafted players of late), this franchise needs a good coach and solid ownership and right now it looks to be against any ownership group who thinks they can make it work in Phoenix. I hope they stay put but I believe re-location is coming quick, I hope I'm wrong.

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Old
05-20-2009, 07:37 PM
  #94
ShootThePuckCoyotes
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Originally Posted by Jakeman View Post
This shouldn't be the reason for fans to come on board, if you win fans will come. The team in Phoenix should have fans supporting them through good, and bad times. Bandwagon fans are the worst, it shows their lack of support for their favorite team.
Phoenix has had 12 years to put together a winning team and outside of a few playoff years, this franchise has been terriable and is losing 30 mill a year, it doesn't take a much to see why they are in the postition their in right now. I love this team but I also loved them when they were te Winnipeg franchise. It hurts as a longtime fan to hear that there is a chance they could be on the move again. Management of the past has been poor and so has the coaching staff. The only postitive thing you could look at, is the team's current G.M and crop of good young talent (included drafted players of late), this franchise needs a good coach and solid ownership and right now it looks to be against any ownership group who thinks they can make it work in Phoenix. I hope they stay put but I believe re-location is coming quick, I hope I'm wrong.
I have lived in Arizona my whole life and I am in the minority here. Phoenix is a bandwagon town because no one is from here. Most people who move here stick with the teams they have always supported until the hometown team either wins or they finally just give in (and even then when their first love comes to town they will support them instead of the hometown team.

This city has not grown at a normal rate, it expoded. So as evidenced with the other teams in the valley, you either need to win or raise your kids to be fans of the home teams. If given the time the latter is better but if we don't get the time then the team must win.

When people move to different towns they just don't drop their loyalty to the team they have loved and supported for years I don't care who you are. They have to be won over!!! What needs to happen here is the fans of hockey in this town need to come out and support the Yotes even when their team isn't playing. We don't need everyone to buy season tickets but it would be nice to see them buy a mini plan.

Bottom line, in my opinion, Phoenix hasn't been given enough time and hasn't had good management running the team while they have been here. We need a fair chance!

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Old
05-20-2009, 07:45 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
There is more in the area that can't get in to games than there is those that do. Thanks, see ya!
So because it's easier to get tickets, they'll totally switch their loyatlies? In some cases generational loyalties? Look, I don't doubt that a franchise in Hamilton would do very well, but you are not doing very well for yourself, here.

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Old
05-20-2009, 07:49 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
but you are not doing very well for yourself, here.
I don't think that is the objective.

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Old
05-20-2009, 07:56 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Oh I'm slow? You lump the area in together and call it Metro., and the area I am talking about is also a solid mass of urban sprawl (no countryside in between) it is somehow different? All I was attempting to demonstrate is a team in Hamilton would be drawing on a larger population than a team from Glendale metro.
How far is Hamilton from Winnipeg though? 20 hours by car? Phoenix is 20 minutes from Glendale, 15 minutes from Scottsdale, 45 minutes to Gilbert, and 2 hours to Tucson. How do I know this? Because I live in Glendale, work in Phoenix, and shop in Scottsdale. I can do it in the same day if I want. So "metro Phoenix" refers to the cities around Phoenix as well. The 1.5 million number I threw out is only people with Phoenix mailing addresses and does not include cities around Phoenix that have 500,000+ usually.

Oh and by the way...ignore.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:05 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeyhopeful View Post
Oh I'm slow? You lump the area in together and call it Metro., and the area I am talking about is also a solid mass of urban sprawl (no countryside in between) it is somehow different? All I was attempting to demonstrate is a team in Hamilton would be drawing on a larger population than a team from Glendale metro.
I've seen plenty of posts saying that the arena "is in the middle of nowhere". But, do people outside Phoenix really think Glendale is a little town far from Phoenix?

Try looking up Jobing.com arena on Google Earth. Then scroll East. You won't see any "countryside" until you reach the Indian reservations East of Scottsdale.

I did a little research on how far Jobing.com is from different points in the Phoenix area:

US Airways Arena (downtown, former home of the Coyotes) 19 miles
Sky Harbor Airport 23 miles
Fountain Hills (about as far East as you get) 45 miles
Queen Creek (about as far Southwest as you get) 56 miles
Anthem (about as far North as you get) 33 miles

Note: I'm not trying to open the debate about how long a drive it is to the arena. I'm just trying to illustrate to those not from this area where Glendale is in the Phoenix area.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:09 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by pck21 View Post
How far is Hamilton from Winnipeg though? 20 hours by car? Phoenix is 20 minutes from Glendale, 15 minutes from Scottsdale, 45 minutes to Gilbert, and 2 hours to Tucson. How do I know this? Because I live in Glendale, work in Phoenix, and shop in Scottsdale. I can do it in the same day if I want. So "metro Phoenix" refers to the cities around Phoenix as well. The 1.5 million number I threw out is only people with Phoenix mailing addresses and does not include cities around Phoenix that have 500,000+ usually.

Oh and by the way...ignore.
I see.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:17 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootThePuckCoyotes View Post
I have lived in Arizona my whole life and I am in the minority here. Phoenix is a bandwagon town because no one is from here. Most people who move here stick with the teams they have always supported until the hometown team either wins or they finally just give in (and even then when their first love comes to town they will support them instead of the hometown team.

This city has not grown at a normal rate, it expoded. So as evidenced with the other teams in the valley, you either need to win or raise your kids to be fans of the home teams. If given the time the latter is better but if we don't get the time then the team must win.

When people move to different towns they just don't drop their loyalty to the team they have loved and supported for years I don't care who you are. They have to be won over!!! What needs to happen here is the fans of hockey in this town need to come out and support the Yotes even when their team isn't playing. We don't need everyone to buy season tickets but it would be nice to see them buy a mini plan.

Bottom line, in my opinion, Phoenix hasn't been given enough time and hasn't had good management running the team while they have been here. We need a fair chance!
12 years is a long time to show the NHL,Phoenix and fans that this team can be a winner and this simply hasn't happened. I don't know if this franchise will find an owner willing bleed 30 mill per season and still feel like giving this team chance after chance to prove or show a profit. I believe my favorite sports team is in danger of going leaving Arizona, maybe not this season but next. They just aren't successful in this market. Ballsilie is also not what this franchise needs, if this franchise moves I hope it's not in Hamilton and not in Las Vegas either.

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