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Old
05-20-2009, 02:28 AM
  #1
Kalamity
 
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Flyers-Canucks

To PHI:
Cory Schnieder
2nd rd. pick

To VAN:
JvR
Jones
4th rd. pick


Last edited by Kalamity: 05-20-2009 at 02:35 AM. Reason: Jones over Carle
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Old
05-20-2009, 02:32 AM
  #2
ELab2
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deal with Jones but not Carle

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Old
05-20-2009, 03:00 AM
  #3
Saren
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Yase.

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Old
05-20-2009, 03:10 AM
  #4
The Puck
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JVR can get you way more than that.

Might as well aim for Lehtonen, Harding, or Hiller if you're dangling JVR.

Schneider hasn't proven anything in the NHL ... neither has JVR, but as a recent #2 overall pick, you gotta aim way higher if you're dealing him.

The Flyers don't do this even if that 2nd round pick was changed to a 1st (22nd overall).

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Old
05-20-2009, 03:24 AM
  #5
ugghhh
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As a Canucks fan, I don't really think that's enough for JVR -- if it was, I'd do it in a second. I think a trade that is more enticing for Philly is something like:

Schneider
Bieksa

for

JVR
Parent

I think the Canucks are giving up a lot here, and I would only do this if it looks probable that we will sign Bouwmeester (or we have already signed/come to an agreement with him) -- or another top-3 defenseman.

For the Canucks: we don't need Bieksa for his offensive presence, and Parent can be solid defensively and physical for cheaper as the 4th defenseman -- this would open some cap space to sign Bouwmeester and allow us to make some additions up front. That would give us a defense of

Bouwmeester/Edler
Salo/Parent
Mitchell/SOB

A big upgrade on this years top 6, imo. We also add to the front end, as JVR slides in as the 3rd line winger, playing with Hodgson and Bernier/Raymond/Hansen/Grabner (whoever has chemistry there) -- he could potentially be in the top 6.

For the Flyers:

The Flyers need to construct a team that can not only win, but can compete against the Pens and the Caps. IMO, that's why this trade makes a lot of sense.

I think Schneider is ready to split the starting job somewhere, and he could probably share the starting duties with Nittymaki (If he re-signs? -- not sure what the general consensus on the Flyers starting goalie spot is right now -- if a deal like this went through I would try to sign a goalie like Roloson (or maybe even Valiquette or Clemmenson) who might prove to be a bit better than Nittymaki). Schneider should prove to be a top 15 goalie in the NHL in a few years -- even as soon as next year he could be a very capable #1 goalie. The flyers still have a lot of young talent, so they should be looking at a long-term solution in net. Schneider could be part of the solution short term, but they'd probably also want to look into another borderline #1 goalie.

Bieksa would be one of their top-3 defenseman, adding grit and offensive skill. He makes some defensive lapses, and is by no means a shutdown defenseman, but he is mobile and is tough to play against. Along with Timonen and Coburn they'd make up one of the better defensive units in the East, imo.

Timonen/Bieksa
Coburn/Carle
Jones/Alberts-Sbisa-Kukkonen

The issue here is that the Flyers would be taking on some salary, which is probably not in their best interest cap-wise. They should still have room to make a couple of moves -- they could probably use another top-4 defenseman, and I would also want a strong #5 to play with either Carle or Jones (I'm not a huge fan of either on this team, simply because I would want all my defenseman to be able to play a solid game and are capable of playing spot minutes against Crosby, Malkin, etc. -- but that's easier said than done)

If I'm the Flyers, Schneider would probably be my 2nd option behind Josh Harding. I would rather give up some draft picks than JVR, and Harding could probably be had for a 1st(2010) and a decent prospect (Nodl?) -- a little more might be necessary.

Rask is also a possibility, but I think Boston would want a lot more than what it would cost to get Schneider out of Vancouver.

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Old
05-20-2009, 03:38 AM
  #6
Saren
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PS: Flyers get killed in this deal. That's why I would do it.

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Old
05-20-2009, 03:48 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalamity View Post
To PHI:
Cory Schnieder
2nd rd. pick

To VAN:
JvR
Jones
4th rd. pick


The second probably isn't enough and Jones is just plain stupid to include (JONES is stupid and really worthless in trades), he's injured and even though he's beeter than he showed last year (he played injured the whole time and it seriously affected his play) the Flyers will just be eating his salary for next year and then let it expires thus giving us some expireing salary to extend Coburn and Parent next off-season.

Also, I really don't see this deal being done before Luongo is extended and that can't happen until after July 1st I believe (when the last year of his current contract begins, you CAN'T be extended before the beginning of the last year of an existing valid SPC). Thus the 1st would likely not be an 09 but more likely a 2010 1st. Considering we could probably get Pavelek from Atlanta without giving up JVR and he is no less proven than Schneider (meaning both have the same question marks surronding them, they may be great, they may still bust, they may just be average) I personally would rather keep JVR rather than get a late 1st next season.

To Vanc fans, we still view JVR just as highly as you view Hodgson. Honestly, if Luongo doesn't resign and Schneider say has a career ending injury, would you guys trade Hadgson for someone like Pavelek, an AHL goalie who really hsn't proven very much in the NHL yet??? I'd hope you'd rather seek to get a more proven goalie if you are given up a player you chose that high in the draft and have that high of hopes for.

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Old
05-20-2009, 03:49 AM
  #8
SnS
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Again, as was said it 15 million other threads. Top tier Prospects don't get dealt for each other. Also even if they were, I don't see Philly accepting that...

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Old
05-20-2009, 04:04 AM
  #9
Saren
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
The second probably isn't enough and Jones is just plain stupid to include (JONES is stupid and really worthless in trades), he's injured and even though he's beeter than he showed last year (he played injured the whole time and it seriously affected his play) the Flyers will just be eating his salary for next year and then let it expires thus giving us some expireing salary to extend Coburn and Parent next off-season.

Also, I really don't see this deal being done before Luongo is extended and that can't happen until after July 1st I believe (when the last year of his current contract begins, you CAN'T be extended before the beginning of the last year of an existing valid SPC). Thus the 1st would likely not be an 09 but more likely a 2010 1st. Considering we could probably get Pavelek from Atlanta without giving up JVR and he is no less proven than Schneider (meaning both have the same question marks surronding them, they may be great, they may still bust, they may just be average) I personally would rather keep JVR rather than get a late 1st next season.

To Vanc fans, we still view JVR just as highly as you view Hodgson. Honestly, if Luongo doesn't resign and Schneider say has a career ending injury, would you guys trade Hadgson for someone like Pavelek, an AHL goalie who really hsn't proven very much in the NHL yet??? I'd hope you'd rather seek to get a more proven goalie if you are given up a player you chose that high in the draft and have that high of hopes for.
Sticky this man's post.

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Old
05-20-2009, 04:06 AM
  #10
JawandaPuck
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G Cory Schneider for D Luca Sbisa?

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Old
05-20-2009, 04:54 AM
  #11
phlocky
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Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
Sticky this man's post.

Does this mean you like it or do you think it's bad? I really can't tell anymore with how many people react on this board.

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Old
05-20-2009, 05:09 AM
  #12
mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
G Cory Schneider for D Luca Sbisa?
No, thank you. The likelihood that Sbisa becomes a top-4 defenseman is higher than the likelihood that Schneider becomes an elite goaltender, statistically. How about JVR and Jones for Schneider and Raymond?

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Old
05-20-2009, 05:55 AM
  #13
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1st rounder for Schneider straight up? C'mon Vancouver....it's a deep draft .

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Old
05-20-2009, 07:16 AM
  #14
Red
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
1st rounder for Schneider straight up? C'mon Vancouver....it's a deep draft .
Uhhhhh nooooo thank you. We just spent 2 years developing Schneider into the best goalie in the AHL and we're not about to trade him for a late 1st who may or may not pan out to be as good as Schneider. He's either dealt for a highly touted prospect in a swap or he stays with the Canucks.

And yeah, any deal including Schneider has to for sure assume Luongo has been extended. He's not getting dealt with all the current uncertainty surrounding Luongo.

phlocky, good post man, and while Schneider has not proven anything at the NHL level, I think he's more comparable to Rask in value than Pavalec. Schneider has absolutely been a dominant goalie in the AHL ever since February '08. And to be honest, though probably very un-objective, I do not see how a Hodgson for Pavalec trade compares to JVR for Schneider at this time.

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Old
05-20-2009, 10:23 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burt the Dog View Post
JVR can get you way more than that.

Might as well aim for Lehtonen, Harding, or Hiller if you're dangling JVR.

Schneider hasn't proven anything in the NHL ... neither has JVR, but as a recent #2 overall pick, you gotta aim way higher if you're dealing him.

The Flyers don't do this even if that 2nd round pick was changed to a 1st (22nd overall).
1. Top Prospects don't get traded for each other regardless of fair value.

2. We can get a solid goaltending prospect without trading JVR.

3. If JVR is included we could probably do a lot better than Schneider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ugghhh View Post
Schneider
Bieksa

for

JVR
Parent
.................................................

Why do you think we would do this?

Parent isn't going to be getting as much as Bieksa after next season, and he may not be a "monster" but his shutdown skills are going to be very important to the Flyers in the coming years.

To the Flyers in terms of value:

Parent>Bieksa
JVR>Schneider


Last edited by twenty2: 05-20-2009 at 10:29 AM.
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Old
05-20-2009, 10:27 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
No, thank you. The likelihood that Sbisa becomes a top-4 defenseman is higher than the likelihood that Schneider becomes an elite goaltender, statistically. How about JVR and Jones for Schneider and Raymond?
You do not think JVR is going to be 1st line Gagne/Nash type of player? You think Sbisa is going to be better?

You have no problems trading him. It bothers me, a lot.


Last edited by Kaktus*: 05-20-2009 at 11:08 AM.
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Old
05-20-2009, 10:39 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red View Post
Uhhhhh nooooo thank you. We just spent 2 years developing Schneider into the best goalie in the AHL and we're not about to trade him for a late 1st who may or may not pan out to be as good as Schneider. He's either dealt for a highly touted prospect in a swap or he stays with the Canucks.
Yeah, I was just throwing crap to see what stuck, haha. I figured the first this year might be able to help you more than Schneider, assuming you have a signed Luongo. But injuries happen, and a cheap more-than-capable back-up is a great thing to have. Kudos for the civil response, seems to be more than a lot of us Flyers fans can muster as of late (everyone seems to take every offer personally).

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Old
05-20-2009, 10:47 AM
  #18
NFITO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Yeah, I was just throwing crap to see what stuck, haha. I figured the first this year might be able to help you more than Schneider, assuming you have a signed Luongo. But injuries happen, and a cheap more-than-capable back-up is a great thing to have. Kudos for the civil response, seems to be more than a lot of us Flyers fans can muster as of late (everyone seems to take every offer personally).
as a Canuck fan, I wouldn't have a problem trading Schneider for a 1st (depending on who's available at that spot), and would definitely look into using Schneider as trade bait to move up in the draft...

but that only happens if Luongo is signed, which can't happen for the upcoming draft... it'd have to be in 2010. Luongo can't be re-signed until after July 1st... and I wouldn't deal Schneider until I know that Luongo is locked up.

Ideally, I'd like to see Schneider brought in as Luongo's backup next year, with Luongo extended... with the Olympic break, and therefore a more much intensive schedule, I'd like to see Luongo get fewer starts next year, giving Schneider time to show-case himself... then depending on how he does, he could be a valuable asset at the deadline... or then wait till the 2010 draft to use him to move up, or get another 1st rounder to improve the organization's depth.

Trading him this draft though is not an option.... too much risk attached when Luongo isn't signed.

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Old
05-20-2009, 11:02 AM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
No, thank you. The likelihood that Sbisa becomes a top-4 defenseman is higher than the likelihood that Schneider becomes an elite goaltender, statistically. How about JVR and Jones for Schneider and Raymond?
I'd seriously consider that..

What else could fit in the place of Jones in that deal?

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Old
05-20-2009, 11:09 AM
  #20
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I'd seriously consider that..

What else could fit in the place of Jones in that deal?
What makes you think we're interested in Raymond if JVR is going the other way?

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Old
05-20-2009, 11:34 AM
  #21
ginner classic
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Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO View Post
as a Canuck fan, I wouldn't have a problem trading Schneider for a 1st (depending on who's available at that spot), and would definitely look into using Schneider as trade bait to move up in the draft...

but that only happens if Luongo is signed, which can't happen for the upcoming draft... it'd have to be in 2010. Luongo can't be re-signed until after July 1st... and I wouldn't deal Schneider until I know that Luongo is locked up.

Ideally, I'd like to see Schneider brought in as Luongo's backup next year, with Luongo extended... with the Olympic break, and therefore a more much intensive schedule, I'd like to see Luongo get fewer starts next year, giving Schneider time to show-case himself... then depending on how he does, he could be a valuable asset at the deadline... or then wait till the 2010 draft to use him to move up, or get another 1st rounder to improve the organization's depth.

Trading him this draft though is not an option.... too much risk attached when Luongo isn't signed.
You can add to that the fact Bieksa is unlikely to get traded until after July 1 as well. After July 1, Bieksa and Schneider are very likely trading chips if a.) Luongo and the Sedins are signed and B.) Another d-man has been brought in.

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Old
05-20-2009, 12:10 PM
  #22
Shadow Flyer
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Originally Posted by xV Carter 17 Xv View Post
Again, as was said it 15 million other threads. Top tier Prospects don't get dealt for each other. Also even if they were, I don't see Philly accepting that...
Quoted for truth.

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Old
05-20-2009, 12:24 PM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xV Carter 17 Xv
Again, as was said it 15 million other threads. Top tier Prospects don't get dealt for each other. Also even if they were, I don't see Philly accepting that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowFlyer View Post
Quoted for truth.



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Old
05-20-2009, 12:28 PM
  #24
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What makes you think we're interested in Raymond if JVR is going the other way?
I don't know?- maybe because a Flyers fan suggested it to begin with?

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Old
05-20-2009, 12:31 PM
  #25
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I don't know?- maybe because a Flyers fan suggested it to begin with?
Didn't care who originally suggested it...

It was directed at the proposal itself, not it's grand architect.

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