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Old
05-20-2009, 02:12 PM
  #26
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
G Cory Schneider for D Luca Sbisa?
That's even worse.

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Old
05-20-2009, 04:41 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
That's even worse.
What's so bad about that proposal? Are we supposed to get something for nothing? Cory Schneider is as close to a sure thing as goalie prospects get. The Flyers can't develop goalies to save their lives, and they have a decent pool of future blue liners.

Sbisa for Schneider straight up? AFAIC, DONE.

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Old
05-20-2009, 04:58 PM
  #28
Haute Couturier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
What's so bad about that proposal? Are we supposed to get something for nothing? Cory Schneider is as close to a sure thing as goalie prospects get. The Flyers can't develop goalies to save their lives, and they have a decent pool of future blue liners.

Sbisa for Schneider straight up? AFAIC, DONE.
Sbisa has greater value than that.

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Old
05-20-2009, 05:18 PM
  #29
mercury
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Originally Posted by sselssalc View Post
I'd seriously consider that..

What else could fit in the place of Jones in that deal?
Nothing, really. Jones would be a straight salary dump, which we would need taking on about $1.9 million between Schneider and Raymond. JVR might not start the season with the Flyers, so his salary wouldn't enter into it. On the bright side, Jones is only signed through next season, and he may be a candidate to start the season on LTIR, depending on what happens with his hip. Raymond would look good on our 3rd line, especially if we get a legit 3rd line center who is good defensively and on faceoffs. I'd love to try to acquire Eric Belanger from Minnesota. Maybe Lupul for Belanger and a pick? I'd like to see this type of lineup:

Gagne-Richards-Briere
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Raymond-Belanger-Knuble
Carcillo-Powe-Asham
Cote/Ross

Timonen-Parent
Carle-Coburn
Sbisa-UFA (Beauchemin, Montador, etc.)
Alberts(?)

Veteran goalie
Schneider


Should be in the $54-55 million range, and a good improvement from this year's team. The D goes from being mediocre to very deep, the top 6 is still extremely prolific, and the goalie situation could (hopefully) be solved for the long term. Six of those forwards have scored 30 or more goals in a season (Gagne and Carter have scored more than 40), and Giroux has the potential to get up there, too. I think Raymond could mature into a 20-20 type guy, as well.

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Old
05-20-2009, 05:46 PM
  #30
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Maybe expand the Lupul deal to include Harding. How about Lupul + Nodl for Belanger and Harding. Then Let the 2 goalies fight it out.

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Old
05-20-2009, 05:55 PM
  #31
mercury
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
Maybe expand the Lupul deal to include Harding. How about Lupul + Nodl for Belanger and Harding. Then Let the 2 goalies fight it out.
I don't think that it would be a good idea to go after a Cup with two goalies who are 25 or younger and have played a total of 66 NHL games between them. But, that's just me. One or the other of Harding/Schneider would be great to have, though. I think that both of those guys will be #1s.

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Old
05-20-2009, 06:16 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Does this mean you like it or do you think it's bad? I really can't tell anymore with how many people react on this board.
I think your post is spot on.

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Old
05-20-2009, 07:35 PM
  #33
JawandaPuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
What's so bad about that proposal? Are we supposed to get something for nothing? Cory Schneider is as close to a sure thing as goalie prospects get. The Flyers can't develop goalies to save their lives, and they have a decent pool of future blue liners.

Sbisa for Schneider straight up? AFAIC, DONE.

For selfish reasons, I hope something like that happens at the draft. I grabbed Schneider in my keeper leauge (eight teams) late in the season as an FA pick up. I already have:
-E Nabokov
-S Mason
-J Theodore (don't laugh -- he was actually a good #3 goalie because of his wins total)
-S Varlamov
-J Bernier


We can only protect four goalies going into next season. If he gets dealt to the likes of PHI, I'd protect Schnieder, Nabby, Mase and Varly, waiving Bernier and Theo. If Schneider doesn't get dealt by then (and is stuck behind Luongo), and Bernier doesn't make LA out of camp, I'll protect only three goalies since I've many good fwds and d-men on my reserve list. Good plan?

And to think, just a couple of years ago my best goalie was R Esche. But then I traded Hossa for Nabokov last year. That was the beginning of the turnaround in goal. Then of course Steve Mason became an instant success this season and Varly looks to be the starter in Wsh next season.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:00 PM
  #34
BillyShoe1721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
What's so bad about that proposal? Are we supposed to get something for nothing? Cory Schneider is as close to a sure thing as goalie prospects get. The Flyers can't develop goalies to save their lives, and they have a decent pool of future blue liners.

Sbisa for Schneider straight up? AFAIC, DONE.
Luca is a proven commodity at the NHL level, but Schneider isn't, and as we've seen multiple times before, the value of prospect goaltenders is very low.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:02 PM
  #35
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Sbisa is no where close to a proven commodity in the NHL.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:06 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
No, thank you. The likelihood that Sbisa becomes a top-4 defenseman is higher than the likelihood that Schneider becomes an elite goaltender, statistically. How about JVR and Jones for Schneider and Raymond?


A top 4 defenseman and elite goaltender aren't in the same ballpark value wise. I'd say top 4 defenseman and average starting goaltender would be a more apt comparison.

As for the proposal, not for me. Raymond is by no means a sure-fire top 6 forward but he has shown flashes and it might be a bit early to give up on the organization's fastst skater. Vancouver could potentially wind up with Scott Niedermayer or Jay Bouwmeester so Jones wouldn't be a good idea.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:10 PM
  #37
JawandaPuck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
A top 4 defenseman and elite goaltender aren't in the same ballpark value wise. I'd say top 4 defenseman and average starting goaltender would be a more apt comparison.
Astute.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:10 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post


A top 4 defenseman and elite goaltender aren't in the same ballpark value wise. I'd say top 4 defenseman and average starting goaltender would be a more apt comparison.
That is irrelevant. By their nature, one player has a better chance of hitting his ceiling. Sbisa will most likely be on the Flyers' 2nd or 3rd pairing next season. It's not a good gamble on the Flyers' part.


Quote:
As for the proposal, not for me. Raymond is by no means a sure-fire top 6 forward but he has shown flashes and it might be a bit early to give up on the organization's fastst skater. Vancouver could potentially wind up with Scott Niedermayer or Jay Bouwmeester so Jones wouldn't be a good idea.
How is Vancouver going to get one of those guys? Are you assuming that Luongo will be gone? I don't get it.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:12 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Sbisa is no where close to a proven commodity in the NHL.
No, he is not proven, but he showed the talent and he could contribute immensely next season. His ceiling is very, very high.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:15 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
How is Vancouver going to get one of those guys? Are you assuming that Luongo will be gone? I don't get it.
Signed as a UFA?

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:22 PM
  #41
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Signed as a UFA?
I would be surprised if the Sedins are re-signed, Edler gets his raise, Luongo stays, AND Niedermayer or J-Bo are signed.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:30 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
No, he is not proven, but he showed the talent and he could contribute immensely next season. His ceiling is very, very high.
I think the Flyers would do it anyway. If you want to get technical, Van & Phi could exchange draft picks as part of the package, with the round determined by the performance of each player next season.

The Flyers could then draft Sbisa's replacement with their first pick this season. OEL, Erixon, Elliot, De Haan...lots to choose from.


Last edited by JawandaPuck: 05-20-2009 at 08:43 PM.
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Old
05-20-2009, 08:31 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I would be surprised if the Sedins are re-signed, Edler gets his raise, Luongo stays, AND Niedermayer or J-Bo are signed.
The Canucks have a ton of cap flexibility this summer. Vancouver has $33mil commited to next season and a paltry $15mil the following one. There are only a handful of teams with more cap space available over the next couple years.

I'm still not so sure Luca Sbisa is a more sure bet than Cory Schneider. Skilled, offensive defenseman have risk attached to them as do young goatenders. If Schneider was 18 or 19 years old I would tend to agree moreso but Cory has steadily progressed since being drafted 5 years ago and is playing at an elite level in the AHL playoffs as we speak.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:38 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post


Special circumstance. Not the same.

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Old
05-20-2009, 08:41 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I would be surprised if the Sedins are re-signed, Edler gets his raise, Luongo stays, AND Niedermayer or J-Bo are signed.
Edler already has his raise factored in and Luongo re-signing won't affect next year's cap. If the Canucks can manage to sign one if Niedermayer or Bouwmeester I would say the likelihood of him re-signing increases. As for the Sedins, it really depends on how much they get. I don't see them getting a dime over $6M from the Canucks and most likely less. There are only so many teams out there that could even afford to offer that much and the ones that can aren't better situations than Vancouver. I think they know this.

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Old
05-20-2009, 09:00 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Aeon View Post
I think your post is spot on.
Ok, cool. TYVM

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Old
05-20-2009, 09:01 PM
  #47
mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
The Canucks have a ton of cap flexibility this summer. Vancouver has $33mil commited to next season and a paltry $15mil the following one. There are only a handful of teams with more cap space available over the next couple years.
That sounds like a decent amount of space. Of course, you also have to sign the player, and that doesn't always happen.


Quote:
I'm still not so sure Luca Sbisa is a more sure bet than Cory Schneider. Skilled, offensive defenseman have risk attached to them as do young goatenders. If Schneider was 18 or 19 years old I would tend to agree moreso but Cory has steadily progressed since being drafted 5 years ago and is playing at an elite level in the AHL playoffs as we speak.
I wouldn't really describe Sbisa as an "offensive" defenseman. Two-way defenseman is more apt. He also played well early in the season before he went back to Lethbridge. Schneider has barely played in the NHL yet, and domination at lower levels does not always precede NHL domination. I do think that he is going to be a #1 goaltender, and possibly a top 5 goalie someday. Still, assuming no major injuries, top-4 defensemen tend to be slightly easier to predict that elite goaltenders. Schneider would be far better than anything we have in the pipeline, but Sbisa is going to be very important to the Flyers over the next few years.

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Old
05-20-2009, 09:03 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
I think the Flyers would do it anyway. If you want to get technical, Van & Phi could exchange draft picks as part of the package, with the round determined by the performance of each player next season.

The Flyers could then draft Sbisa's replacement with their first pick this season. OEL, Erixon, Elliot, De Haan...lots to choose from.
I would bet money that they would NOT trade Sbisa straight up for Schneider.

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Old
05-20-2009, 09:09 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by mercury View Post
I would bet money that they would NOT trade Sbisa straight up for Schneider.
Follow my successful fantasy league strategy, get 'em while they're cheap, not when they'll cost you two roster players and two high picks. Now go win a cup. No loosing to Pittsburgh next year, got it?

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Old
05-20-2009, 09:18 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Luca is a proven commodity at the NHL level, but Schneider isn't, and as we've seen multiple times before, the value of prospect goaltenders is very low.
Sbisa is just as proven as Schneider is at the NHL level, and Schneider is way more proven at the professional level anyway.

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