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Old
05-21-2009, 12:43 AM
  #51
NYR Sting
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I don't think he's going to come here. I think LA will give him a very nice offer. He'd be a lot better off playing with the likes of Kopitar, Frolov and Brown than Gomez and Drury. He's exactly what they're looking for, too, and they have cap space.

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05-21-2009, 12:49 AM
  #52
NYR Viper
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Pass on Gaborik. He would be yet another mistake for this team as they try to buy hired guns to build a team.

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05-21-2009, 02:14 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Ok, so is DP's lower bottom injuries (hip) better for you.

How many times has it been with Gabbys hip? Groin? Back? Hernia? Abdominal strain? Hes 27 and already has injury after injury...are you just dreaming and think he will come here and all of a sudden start playing 80 games seasons?
How many times has Gaborik's injuries been corrected by the proper surgery? Once. How many athletes have been sidelined or retired due to multiple torn labrum surgeries? I can't think of any. No one has a torn labrum surgery more than once and it's been proven the groin injuries were a direct result of the torn labrum in his hip. Your citings of Lindros and Bure are entirely incompatible to Gaborik's persistent injuries. You obviously didn't read my posts.

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Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
An interview back he said he wanted to play in NYC so i'm sure he'd come here.
This has been discussed before and Thrasher fans have disputed it numerous times. He's never mentioned a thing about leaving Atlanta. He wants the Thrashers to build a team, not once has he publicly stated that he wants to play elsewhere. Every time a Kovalchuk proposal is mentioned Thrasher fans vehemently refute the fact that he's mentioned leaving the franchise.


Last edited by D713B: 05-21-2009 at 02:23 AM.
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Old
05-21-2009, 02:34 AM
  #54
n8
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I would get Gaborik if we had the money. Yes to Grachev Gomez Gaborik. The 3000 line!

Grachev-Gomez-Gaborik ~$15M
Drury-Dubinsky-Callahan ~12M
Korpikoski-Anisimov-Zherdev ~$5
Avery-Betts-Sjostrom ~3M

Rosival-Redden ~$11.5
Staal-Girardi ~$4.5
Rookie-Gilroy ~$2.5

Henke + Valley ~$7.5

TOTAL ~$61M, shucks. Way over the cap. And that's with a roster dressing 3 rookies (guessing at what RFAs might get). We'd have to cut Rosival/Redden and maybe even Zherdev to make room under the cap and have some emergency wiggle room.

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Old
05-21-2009, 06:21 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Well so be it. Rather us spend a little money to fill a few holes for this season, then next season take a run at giving Kovalchuk a long term 8M dollar deal when he is a UFA. An interview back he said he wanted to play in NYC so i'm sure he'd come here.

Screw Gabby, wait for Kovy.
You know whats even a bigger risk than signing Gaborik? Waiting around and hoping Kovalchuk actually hits the open market.

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05-21-2009, 06:29 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by ManicSubsidal15 View Post
umm i know he's injury prone but this is the one thing i just realized that people seem to forget. players on the long term IR DONT count towards the cap. it's the same situation with Briere and Philly last year where they had to clear some space when he was set to return. worse comes to worst his cap hit wont count when hes out and when hes in he'll deff earn those 7 to 8 mil and then some
But you don't get to tap into the UFA market everytime he misses 2 or more weeks. So he saves us cap space during his vacations, but we are filliing in that hole with Byers or Moore. Philly wasn't hurt by Briere's absence because they have another 5 or 6 30 goals scorers, we have none. In fact, they were completely helped by his injury and LTI because they would have had to traded a few pieces for nothing just to fit him on the team.

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05-21-2009, 07:35 AM
  #57
FLYLine24
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You know whats even a bigger risk than signing Gaborik? Waiting around and hoping Kovalchuk actually hits the open market.
Oh well. Rather do that then kill franchise for the next 8 years with a guy who will be on the IR.

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Old
05-21-2009, 08:24 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
Oh well. Rather do that then kill franchise for the next 8 years with a guy who will be on the IR.
Thats another thing. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone knows what the market is going to look like in regards to Gaborik. I dont think he'll sign for 1 year, and I dont think any team would sign him for 8. You wouldnt give a Gaborik, say, 4/30? I certainly would.

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05-21-2009, 08:39 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats another thing. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone knows what the market is going to look like in regards to Gaborik. I dont think he'll sign for 1 year, and I dont think any team would sign him for 8. You wouldnt give a Gaborik, say, 4/30? I certainly would.
Agreed 100%. I would definately give Gabby a long term deal. Get him signed. He is an Elite player. he is reaching his prime, and is a world class game changer.

Hell I would even buy out Drury and take the ~$2mil cap hit for the next 6 years. (it still would clear (~$5mil the next three) just to make it happen. It's not like we would miss Drury at all.

With hank in net this team cannot go through a major rebuild (we will never draft that low). He is also entering his prime. We need to go for it now. Not wait for 4 years down the road when Hank could be coming out of his best years.

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05-21-2009, 09:01 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If people want a goal scorer they're going to have to settle for one with some flaws.
But let's at least get one that actually plays

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Old
05-21-2009, 09:03 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
You know whats even a bigger risk than signing Gaborik? Waiting around and hoping Kovalchuk actually hits the open market.
Why not just rebuild from within for a few years instead of waiting for the yearly saviour?

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05-21-2009, 09:09 AM
  #62
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Because the Rangers don't have any prospects that have near the upside of guys like Gaborik or Kovalchuk.

Ideally you'd have their prospects forming the main body of the team and then they could grab a superstar like Kovalchuk to put them over the top.

In reality, the big contracts that the Rangers have signed over the past several years kind of limits how that will work.

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05-21-2009, 09:12 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post

B) Trade one of our hi prices contracts. Yeah I know easier said than done but I have seen way worse players with just as horrid contract get traded or a deal done through the waivers to get half salary.
The only reason you have seen it, is because Sather is the only idiot that does it

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05-21-2009, 09:15 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post

Ideally you'd have their prospects forming the main body of the team and then they could grab a superstar like Kovalchuk to put them over the top.
Then that's something we should worry about when we are close to being put "over the top". Kovalchuk is one thing, I'm all for that. But risking a deal on glass Gaborik is ridiculous and is not going to make us awesome all of a sudden.

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05-21-2009, 09:18 AM
  #65
GAGLine
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Originally Posted by ManicSubsidal15 View Post
umm i know he's injury prone but this is the one thing i just realized that people seem to forget. players on the long term IR DONT count towards the cap. it's the same situation with Briere and Philly last year where they had to clear some space when he was set to return. worse comes to worst his cap hit wont count when hes out and when hes in he'll deff earn those 7 to 8 mil and then some
This is not correct.

http://www.nhlscap.com/cap_faq.htm

Quote:
LONG-TERM INJURIES

A player is considered to have a bona-fide long-term injury if, in the opinion of the team, the player has an injury which will cause him to miss at least 10 games and 24 days. Even in such cases, the player's salary will continue to count against the team's Upper Limit. This is mentioned at least three times in the CBA, and is repeated in Article 50.10(a):

All Player Salary and Bonuses paid to Players on an NHL Active Roster, Injured Reserve or Non Roster that are Unfit to Play being either injured or suffering from an illness shall be counted against a Club's Upper Limit, Actual Club Salary and Averaged Club Salary, as well as against the Players' Share.


For players that the team has filed an LTI exception, the team is allowed to exceed the cap by up to the amount of the injured player's salary with as many replacement players as needed, provided that when the injured player is activated the team comes into compliance with the cap immediately. The team does not get to automatically tack on the amount of the injured player's salary to the Upper Limit - an example as illustrated in Article 50.10(d) of the CBA illustrates this point:

(a) Illustration: A Player with a Player Salary of $1.5 million becomes unfit to play for more than 24 days and 10 games. At the time the Player becomes unfit to play, the Club has an Averaged Club Salary of $39.5 million, and the Upper Limit is $40 million. The Club may replace the unfit-to-play Player with another Player of Players with an aggregate Player Salary and Bonuses of up to $1.5 million. The first $500,000 of such replacement salary and bonuses shall count toward the Club's Average Club Salary, bringing the Averaged Club Salary to the Upper Limit. The Club may then exceed the Upper Limit by up to another $1 million as a result of the replacement salary and bonuses. However, if the unfit-to-play Player once again becomes fit to play, and the Club has not otherwise created any Payroll Room during the interim period, then the Player shall not be permitted to rejoin the Club until such time as the Club reduces its Averaged Club Salary to below the Upper Limit.


So - just because a player has a long-term injury does not automatically grant the team extra cap space. A team with a payroll of $44 million that has a player making $4 million get injured doesn't gain any extra cap space as a result; a team at $54 million and a player at $4 million only gains $1,300,000 (all pro-rated, of course). Relief toward the salary cap only comes if replacing an injured player's salary would push the team over the cap, and the amount of relief is limited to the amount the team would go over the cap - not the entire amount of the injured player's salary.

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05-21-2009, 09:24 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
Then that's something we should worry about when we are close to being put "over the top". Kovalchuk is one thing, I'm all for that. But risking a deal on glass Gaborik is ridiculous and is not going to make us awesome all of a sudden.
um yeah he could. when he plays he is a top 5 forward in the league. If we had him in the PO's u don't think we would have beaten washington? I think we would have won the series hands down.

He is the type of player that can make us go from barely making the PO's, to maybe winning our division and getting to at least the ECF. Especially w/ Hank as our backstop, and good young players, and a coach who embraces offense.

people on the board can fantasize about Kovy all they want, but the reality is is that he probably will be resigned by Atl or the team he gets traded to and will never hit the FA market.

The fact he just had the corrective surgery, and the fact that we have one of the best med staffs in hockey (look at how little we have injuries) make me feel that he actually would play 70+ games each season w/ the us.

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Old
05-21-2009, 09:36 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by blue2noise View Post
Then that's something we should worry about when we are close to being put "over the top". Kovalchuk is one thing, I'm all for that. But risking a deal on glass Gaborik is ridiculous and is not going to make us awesome all of a sudden.
People need to get over this ridiculous thought that we aren't ready to compete until we have top of the line goaltending, defense, AND offense. Show me one team in the league that has all 3.

We have the goaltending and the team defense to compete for the Stanley Cup right now. We dont need a lights out offense, but we do need a guy that will bring our offense from embarassing to respectable. Gaborik could really be that guy.

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05-21-2009, 09:40 AM
  #68
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this is the key paragraph:

Quote:
For players that the team has filed an LTI exception, the team is allowed to exceed the cap by up to the amount of the injured player's salary with as many replacement players as needed, provided that when the injured player is activated the team comes into compliance with the cap immediately. The team does not get to automatically tack on the amount of the injured player's salary to the Upper Limit - an example as illustrated in Article 50.10(d) of the CBA illustrates this point:
You can sign players to replace them while they're out as long as the total $$ doesn't exceed their cap hit, but as soon as they come off of IR, you have to ditch those players you signed (or their equivalent cap space)

At any rate, Gaborik could work out great...or he could be an expensive flop. And Kovalchuk might never actually become available! Or might not sign with the Rangers if he does. There's a lot of uncertainty involved with any of this, not the least of which is whether or not the Rangers can even clear cap space for a player like that.

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Old
05-21-2009, 09:58 AM
  #69
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Gaborik scored 13 goals last season. That would be what on our team? Tied for 7th.

You want to pay $8m for 13 goals, or in other words you think Dubinsky deserves $8m?

I thought we needed scoring help really bad. Ha, well if you sign Gaborik you get scoring help - really bad. I don't care about potential or hypotheticals or best case scenerios... they're not realistic. Suddenly his contract with the New York Rangers will render him completely healthy and his long injury history will be a thing of the past. He is going to get hurt, he is going to pout, he is going to be a black hole for our cap.

Best case scenrio... ha. Let's rely on that because its how the world works as we have witnessed with Drury, Gomez, Redden, Zherdev, Bure, Lindros, Poti, Dunham, Kamensky, Kovalev, etc. I left off Naslund because we just got the best case scenrio out of him - retirement.

I've said it before, if Gaborik wants to play here so bad and if he thinks his injury days are a thing of the past... sign a one year deal at $4m. He'll stay healthy to cash in the following season when he's proven himself. If that's not to his liking, he can keep on walking.
yea id be willing to add this 13 goal scorer to our lineup...he scored 13 goals in 17 games. if you do the math and he played a full 82 game season that equals 62 goals. umm and you say you wouldnt take that kind of scoring on this offensively inept team?

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Old
05-21-2009, 10:09 AM
  #70
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What, pray tell, is that style? Highly offensive and requires team speed?

No, Gaborik wouldn't fit that at all...
no, that'd be tough, hard hitting, in your face, drive and crash to the net offense, no more of this dangle ****.

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Old
05-21-2009, 10:10 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Hockey2000nyr View Post
yea id be willing to add this 13 goal scorer to our lineup...he scored 13 goals in 17 games. if you do the math and he played a full 82 game season that equals 62 goals. umm and you say you wouldnt take that kind of scoring on this offensively inept team?
Some people are just so put off by his injury history, which I certainly understand.

What I don't understand is the unwillingness to take a risk that has the potential to take this team to another level.

What I dont understand even more, considering our mediocre crop of prospects, is the call to "build from within"

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05-21-2009, 10:48 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Some people are just so put off by his injury history, which I certainly understand.

What I don't understand is the unwillingness to take a risk that has the potential to take this team to another level.

What I dont understand even more, considering our mediocre crop of prospects, is the call to "build from within"
The obvious reason would be the recent signing of Redden. And people are generally conservative these days with anything regarding money.

People= Average people.


I've wanted Gaborik on the team since really early on in his career. It's a shame about the injuries and such but if you use Havlat as a parallel then the Sign Gaborik argument has legs.

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05-21-2009, 10:57 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I couldnt disagree more with that statement.

Slats has engineered a team that NEEDS to take a risk
No way. They have taken enough risks with big money contracts. One more failure big contract will absolutely put us in cap hell, if we are not already. We will have no flexibility but we will have a guy who might play 50 games for us. Waht would you rather sign Gaborik or be able to sign young players like Staal?

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05-21-2009, 11:37 AM
  #74
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"...just throw money at him..."

This strategy has a less than stellar track record.

Drafting your future may be less exciting, but long term it yields the best results. Even with our current brain trust.

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05-21-2009, 11:57 AM
  #75
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personally i would rather trade rozy this offseason for whatever we can get for him, preferably picks. his contract is the most attractive of the bunch. then go sign gabby, resign betts, sjostrom, zherdev, and maybe a 5-6 veteran defenseman, and fill the rest of the team with the youth that we have waiting in the wings. you sign gaborik, the spotlight for zherdev to produce is off of him, as in we have at goalscorer we sooo desperatly need, if gaborik and gomez can get some chemistry together, if they cant, next offseason gomez's contract gets more attractive and sather would probably have better luck trading him then. which would clear the salary necessary to resign staal and girardi.

now im not looking at numbers, but i would expect dubi and cally to get raises to around 1.5 for a couple of years, also if we dont resign morris or mara u subtract their contracts, resign sjostrom for a similar contract as this year, betts could probably fetch 1 mil. if he wants more then i let him walk. in all seriousness if we can trade rozy without taking any significant salary back, and with naslund retiring, thats up to 9 million gone from our cap, now if a couple of the young guys make the team, then it gives us more cap space. also someone quoted bettman and he was stating that the cap could be going up 2 mil, to 60 million. that gives us a little more wiggle room under the cap. it can be done, itll take work but if we make some moves without taking salary back, giving out the necessary raises, and signing gaborik we could possibly see a lineup like this.

gaborik-gomez-callahan
avery-dubinsky-zherdev
korpikoski-anisimov-drury
sjostrom-betts-orr/byers

staal-Sanguinetti
redden-girardi
Del Zotto-Gilroy

that gives us a lot more firepower for the powerplay, it gives us that main key player who could score almost 50 goals in an attacking style offense where his skills will be used very nicely. zherdev wouldnt have to be the go-to guy. the defense is young, so like i said above maybe we go out and sign a North American 5-6 veteran defensman, for cheap, who has some brawn in his game, to play with one of the young guys, essentially putting one of the young guys back into hartford/juniors.

those players would be very nice to have at our disposal. obviously there will be some finagling with the lineup to get it to where it can produce the most, but that is a lineup that i would go into a season with. obviously gaborik is the main guy, if his hip is truly fixed and he can give us 70 games a year for around 7 mil, i sign him in a second. he would provide us with an elite talent who is very very dangerous. he scored over 30 goals in a season playing under jacques lemaire's defensive system, god only knows what he could do in a more attack style offense where he will have the freedom to shoot and truly become the elite player he was supposed to be.

there are some risks with signing gaborik, but in my opinion the rewards will far outweigh the risks.

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