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Old
05-22-2009, 09:32 AM
  #1
odishabs
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Philly and Montreal

To : Jeff Carter and a 3rd round pick
To : Carey Price and Rights to Mike Komisarek

This deal finally gives both teams what they've been longing for, although unlikely I just wanted to see what people thought of this deal. Flyers get a Tender and good Defenceman and the Habs get a big centre who is a legit #1

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Old
05-22-2009, 09:42 AM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
To : Jeff Carter and a 3rd round pick
To : Carey Price and Rights to Mike Komisarek

This deal finally gives both teams what they've been longing for, although unlikely I just wanted to see what people thought of this deal. Flyers get a Tender and good Defenceman and the Habs get a big centre who is a legit #1
...........

No.

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Old
05-22-2009, 09:51 AM
  #3
odishabs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
...........

No.
................

Reason?

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Old
05-22-2009, 09:53 AM
  #4
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Carter won't be dealt for Price. Carter scored the 2nd most goals in the league this year, while Price regressed. If Carter is dealt for a goalie it would be a 110% Proven goaltender.

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Old
05-22-2009, 09:55 AM
  #5
Giroux tha Damaja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
................

Reason?
Price hasn't proven anything other than that he has talent. I also don't know if Komisarek is where Holmgren wants to put his cap space.

Take our 3rd rounder off the board, add your 2nd, and take Randy Jones from us and maybe I would have to think.

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Old
05-22-2009, 09:58 AM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
................

Reason?
While a 3rd for the right's to Komisarek seems fair enough, Carter is a lot more valuable than Price.

While Habs fans may say "What are you talking about, Price is going to be a star?", it's definitely not proven yet and the Flyers defense isn't going to be doing him any favors really. Maybe if Komisarek joins the crew it'd help out, but the Flyers aren't exactly the deepest defense in the NHL. And people wonder why Biron didn't have such great stats.

Price on the open market is FAR less valuable than he is to Habs organization. Because there's been so much invested in him we actually end up overpaying for him by quite a bit if we go after him, and it's proven in this deal.

We can go and try to get other young possible top end goaltenders without giving up Carter.

Carter's coming of a year as the runner-up in goals in the NHL, and is our top point producer of the 2008-09 season.

Basically there's a lot of reasons why I said "No."

Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Price hasn't proven anything other than that he has talent. I also don't know if Komisarek is where Holmgren wants to put his cap space.

Take our 3rd rounder off the board, add your 2nd, and take Randy Jones from us and maybe I would have to think.
They'd have to take Matt Carle off our hands. If we're upgrading the D to Komisarek we're upgrading Carle's position for Komi. We have plenty of young talent in the defensive prospect pool, and when Jones' contract expires in a year we can give them raises. I'd rather have Carle off the books if we are going to get a veteran presence this offseason...

It's not that Carle's bad or that he'd be a salary dump...it's just we need to plan for the future.

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Old
05-22-2009, 10:04 AM
  #7
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Decent proposal, but my guess is this is a deal that neither team would risk making.

Habs POV: If Price lives up to billing and becomes the next great goaltender in the NHL, this deal would be a disaster. However, acquiring an asset instead of losing Komisarek for nothing is a no-brainer.

Flyers POV: Jeff Carter is shaping up to be a top shooter in the league. Replacing 46 goals in the lineup is no easy task, especially if the goal scorer is only 24 years old. Thus far, Price has shown promise but is not a proven commodity as far as elite goaltenders go. A gamble indeed.

I think each team would opt to stand pat on this one. JMO.

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Old
05-22-2009, 10:10 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
It's not that Carle's bad or that he'd be a salary dump...it's just we need to plan for the future.
The upgrade in Carle's current abilities and upside are both worth the extra .75 in cap space to me. If he has to move to a new pairing then so be it. When does Carle's contract expire (I know Jones' is after next year)?

Kimmo - Komi
Parent- Coburn
Carle - Alberts ----------could be fun for the goalie, or not fun at all
Sbisa

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Old
05-22-2009, 10:13 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Decent proposal, but my guess is this is a deal that neither team would risk making.

Habs POV: If Price lives up to billing and becomes the next great goaltender in the NHL, this deal would be a disaster. However, acquiring an asset instead of losing Komisarek for nothing is a no-brainer.

Flyers POV: Jeff Carter is shaping up to be a top shooter in the league. Replacing 46 goals in the lineup is no easy task, especially if the goal scorer is only 24 years old. Thus far, Price has shown promise but is not a proven commodity as far as elite goaltenders go. A gamble indeed.
I don't think the Habs have to lose Komisarek for nothing. They have cap space, has he expressed an interest in looking elsewhere?

Also, if Price develops into the next great goalie, and Carter just maintains last year's production, that hardly qualifies as a "disaster". Not nearly the disaster it would be if Carter comes close to repeating last year's performance and Price keeps flaking out. The Flyers are risking more, and giving more.

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Old
05-22-2009, 10:16 AM
  #10
twenty2
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
The upgrade in Carle's current abilities and upside are both worth the extra .75 in cap space to me. If he has to move to a new pairing then so be it. When does Carle's contract expire (I know Jones' is after next year)?

Kimmo - Komi
Parent- Coburn
Carle - Alberts ----------could be fun for the goalie, or not fun at all
Sbisa
Carle has three more years...1 more year than would be perfect for the Flyers situation with expiring contracts.

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Old
05-22-2009, 11:45 AM
  #11
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I think Carter for Price and Komi may be enough alone, forgetting about the 3rd rounder alltogether.

(Komi's rights aren't a guarantee of actually getting Komi ...i.e. TB trading for Brian Rolston's rights for him to just walk away come FA time.)

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Old
05-22-2009, 11:52 AM
  #12
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if you're getting an asset like carter for a UFA, then there had better be conditional assets coming back to philly.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:05 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odishabs View Post
To : Jeff Carter and a 3rd round pick
To : Carey Price and Rights to Mike Komisarek

This deal finally gives both teams what they've been longing for, although unlikely I just wanted to see what people thought of this deal. Flyers get a HEAD CASE and good Defenceman and the Habs get a big centre who is a legit #1

I fixed it for you.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:30 PM
  #14
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I don't see Philly moving Carter.

Also as was said earlier in this thread if we're moving a 46 goal scoring decent sized sniper for a nut job and a FA to be this off season, more must be coming back IMO..

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:41 PM
  #15
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I wouldn't trade Carter alone for Price, let alone add a 3rd for Komisarek's rights.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:47 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
if you're getting an asset like carter for a UFA, then there had better be conditional assets coming back to philly.
I think the value is fair, but firstly, the Flyers should be given permission to talk to Komisarek and get him signed. Unless the Flyers were 100% guaranteed to sign him, I wouldn't make the above deal if I were them. But if that is the case, the Habs should probably get more than a 3rd rounder.

The Habs could protect themselves from some tomfoolery by getting compensation of some sort, should the Flyers back out on the trade, and then sign Komisarek after July 1st.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:54 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
I think the value is fair, but firstly, the Flyers should be given permission to talk to Komisarek and get him signed. Unless the Flyers were 100% guaranteed to sign him, I wouldn't make the above deal if I were them. But if that is the case, the Habs should probably get more than a 3rd rounder.

The Habs could protect themselves from some tomfoolery by getting compensation of some sort, should the Flyers back out on the trade, and then sign Komisarek after July 1st.
Huh?

Value is fair in whose mind?

Does everyone think we're so willing to give to the needy just because we have a surplus at the forward position?

We're the country that isn't experiencing a drought...and the countries that can't grow crops (offensive talent) think they can just walk in and exchange some shiny beads for the crops we grew (Carter, Giroux, Richards, etc). Then they act surprised when we offer them the crops that are just leftovers in the back (Lupul, Briere) instead of the ones that are more valuable.

You have to give to get, and I understand that Price is going to be a great goalie for a long time, but we can get prospects with just as much if not a little less potential without having to overpay with our best forwards.

This kind of deal makes no sense for the Flyers, and I don't know why everyone thinks we're so willing to give out hand outs when we're not in any real serious danger right now. You can speculate about the cap falling and this and that, but Holmgren has safeguards in place built into the contracts he's handed out.

Bottom line, whatever you suspect to be fair value to the Flyers is likely not unless you're talking about our excess stores. The cream of the crop so to speak is going to take a massive overpayment.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:58 PM
  #18
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No way Montreal does this, unless it's Halak replacing Price. Price has way to much potential left lol

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Old
05-22-2009, 01:42 PM
  #19
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Price and the rights to overpay for Komisarek don't get you Jeff Carter, regardless of how one perceives the value of the proposal.

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Old
05-22-2009, 01:45 PM
  #20
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Originally Posted by heatley15 View Post
No way Montreal does this, unless it's Halak replacing Price. Price has way to much potential left lol
I think it all depends on how the Montreal management feels about Price and Halak. If they have any questionmarks about Price AND they believe that Halak may be just about as good then I think they's do it. If you are basically saying that Halak = Price and you can get a Jeff Carter for one of them then I htink you jump all over it. However, I think that's a pretty HUGE leep to say that Halak = Price.

Also, Halak won't even get you a sniff of Jeff Carters jock strap.

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Old
05-22-2009, 01:53 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
I think the value is fair, but firstly, the Flyers should be given permission to talk to Komisarek and get him signed. Unless the Flyers were 100% guaranteed to sign him, I wouldn't make the above deal if I were them. But if that is the case, the Habs should probably get more than a 3rd rounder.

The Habs could protect themselves from some tomfoolery by getting compensation of some sort, should the Flyers back out on the trade, and then sign Komisarek after July 1st.
meh, a 3rd is about right for an upcoming UFA. it would take someone minor to get his negotiating rights (think matt ellison to nashville before the timonen/hartnell deal). the sticking point is that the flyers wouldn't deal carter for price. you don't trade strong season players for weak season players when their potential is comparable. you stay with the hot hand.

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Old
05-22-2009, 02:26 PM
  #22
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I honestly thought more philly fans would be upset about this proposal.

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Old
05-22-2009, 02:32 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
I honestly thought more philly fans would be upset about this proposal.
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!!!!!!!!!

Better?

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Old
05-22-2009, 02:42 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
While Habs fans may say "What are you talking about, Price is going to be a star?", it's definitely not proven yet and the Flyers defense isn't going to be doing him any favors really. Maybe if Komisarek joins the crew it'd help out, but the Flyers aren't exactly the deepest defense in the NHL. And people wonder why Biron didn't have such great stats.
I reeaaalllly hope you're not implying that the Habs' team defence is better than the flyers'. If you watched this year's playoffs and late season you would come to the conclusion that the Habs, defensively, were bottom-2 in the league. I mean, you can't even compare how alone Price and Halak were to the rest of the league's goalies. But I guess i'll just have to remember this thread for when the Habs learn D.

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Old
05-22-2009, 02:47 PM
  #25
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No, Komisarek's rights don't hold a ton of value. Need more coming back with Price.

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