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Old
05-22-2009, 11:16 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Little's mediocrity as a pro goalie doesn't mean he doesn't know the nuances of the position. Those who can not do, scout (right...?). That having been said.........................


Flyers: We like Backlund over Gustavsson.
Me: Then get a new ****ing scout.
He is probably considering cost difference aswell. Gustavsson is probably asking for max bonuses and stuff because he is way overhyped

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05-22-2009, 11:40 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
He is probably considering cost difference aswell. Gustavsson is probably asking for max bonuses and stuff because he is way overhyped
Well it was an interview with the media, there is always the chance that it is just spin. There's also the chance they talked to Gustavsson and he wasn't interested, so now they're claiming to be happy with what they've got. That said I don't know that Gustavsson is that overhyped. People aren't really talking about what he could do, they're talking about what he did. He played ridiculously well for his team in the playoffs, and he played well in the WC's too. Oh well water under the bridge for a Flyer's fan now, we'll see what they do.

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05-22-2009, 11:43 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by flyers ltd View Post
AHL players don't make anywhere near $500,000 per year. Most make about a tenth of that, save young players with bonuses.
While most AHL players don't make that kind of money, many veteran players like Munroe do make over $250,000. AHL teams have no choice but to pay vets salaries like that to keep players from going to Europe for more money and an easier schedule.

I believe at Little's last Phantoms contract was over $500,000 per year.

As for Munroe, I freely admit that I'm not an NHL scout, but I've watched hundreds of AHL games and seen dozens of AHL goaltenders (and honestly I do focus more on watching goalies than any other position), some who have gone on to play in the NHL (DiPietro, Lehtnonen, Denis, Aebischer, LaBarbera, Halak, Valiquette, Nabokov, Kiprussoff, Miller, Emery, Niittymaki, Biron just to name a few) and I've seen even more than either went to Europe or remain in the AHL or less (Pelletier, Ouellet, Cassivi, LeNeveu, etc, etc).

That said I think Munroe is a very nice AHL goaltender and could have a similar career with the organization like Little, but I do not think that he has any NHL potential. There are goalies that you see at the AHL level and you say to yourself that this guy has the potential to play at the next level. After watching dozens of Munroe's games, I've never gotten that feeling.

I think that if he did see any NHL action that the holes in his game would be exposed very quickly. Actually I compare him quite a bit to San Antonio goalie (Phoenix property) Josh Tordjman. Both were undrafted free agents that have over-achieved at the AHL level. Tordjman's numbers have been better than Munroe's (and even more impressive since the SA teams that he has played for have been abysmal) and earned a shot with the Coyotes. It didn't take long to see that Tordjman didn't have the game to play at the NHL level as he lost both starts and was quickly sent back down in favor of Montoya.

To be brutally honest, I wouldn't even rank Munroe in the top 5 of goalies that have played for the Phantoms in terms of NHL potential or play at the AHL level.

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05-22-2009, 12:17 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
People are acting like making Neil Little a goalie scout is some kind of new innovative step in scouting. It's really not. I'd wager the Flyers are probably one of the last teams to do this.
If you'd had read the three articles you'd have seen that the 'norm' is scouts following all positions... and just about every scout being a retired forward or D-man. Tim pointed out that this is in fact an unusual situation, and that in this economy most teams are cutting down on scouting by making their scouts multitask... the Flyers having a dedicated scout only looking at goalies, and being a former goalie himself, is quite innovative.

Please take the time and read the series, I think you will find it informative... I know that I did.

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05-22-2009, 12:22 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
While most AHL players don't make that kind of money, many veteran players like Munroe do make over $250,000. AHL teams have no choice but to pay vets salaries like that to keep players from going to Europe for more money and an easier schedule.

I believe at Little's last Phantoms contract was over $500,000 per year.

As for Munroe, I freely admit that I'm not an NHL scout, but I've watched hundreds of AHL games and seen dozens of AHL goaltenders (and honestly I do focus more on watching goalies than any other position), some who have gone on to play in the NHL (DiPietro, Lehtnonen, Denis, Aebischer, LaBarbera, Halak, Valiquette, Nabokov, Kiprussoff, Miller, Emery, Niittymaki, Biron just to name a few) and I've seen even more than either went to Europe or remain in the AHL or less (Pelletier, Ouellet, Cassivi, LeNeveu, etc, etc).

That said I think Munroe is a very nice AHL goaltender and could have a similar career with the organization like Little, but I do not think that he has any NHL potential. There are goalies that you see at the AHL level and you say to yourself that this guy has the potential to play at the next level. After watching dozens of Munroe's games, I've never gotten that feeling.

I think that if he did see any NHL action that the holes in his game would be exposed very quickly. Actually I compare him quite a bit to San Antonio goalie (Phoenix property) Josh Tordjman. Both were undrafted free agents that have over-achieved at the AHL level. Tordjman's numbers have been better than Munroe's (and even more impressive since the SA teams that he has played for have been abysmal) and earned a shot with the Coyotes. It didn't take long to see that Tordjman didn't have the game to play at the NHL level as he lost both starts and was quickly sent back down in favor of Montoya.

To be brutally honest, I wouldn't even rank Munroe in the top 5 of goalies that have played for the Phantoms in terms of NHL potential or play at the AHL level.
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=PHI

Oh so do they only get paid the salary listed if they actually play in the NHL?

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05-22-2009, 12:35 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovetheflyers8 View Post
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=PHI

Oh so do they only get paid the salary listed if they actually play in the NHL?

I'd guess that those having two-way contracts on the list would be paid less in the AHL, and what is listed is the NHL salary... since that is what the list is created to follow... But two-way contracts, I believe, are a rarity anymore in the NHL. In cases of competition, players would almost always demand a one-way and sign with the team offering one... same with decent prospects who have overseas options upon being drafted, or college eligibility.

I don't know which players have what kind, but assume that most have one-ways... That said, I do know for a fact that Seidenberg told me personally (when we used to chat at the dog park) that he had a two-way; that was during the Lock-out.

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05-22-2009, 01:25 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
I'd guess that those having two-way contracts on the list would be paid less in the AHL, and what is listed is the NHL salary... since that is what the list is created to follow... But two-way contracts, I believe, are a rarity anymore in the NHL. In cases of competition, players would almost always demand a one-way and sign with the team offering one... same with decent prospects who have overseas options upon being drafted, or college eligibility.

I don't know which players have what kind, but assume that most have one-ways... That said, I do know for a fact that Seidenberg told me personally (when we used to chat at the dog park) that he had a two-way; that was during the Lock-out.
I don't think that 2-way contracts are a rarity any more. In fact I think they are commonplace for borderline players.

And, yes, players are certainly going to demand them since they would make the same amount of money regardless of which league they play in. But, on the flipside, teams aren't going to give a player a 1-way contract if they know up front that that player is going to spend any extended time in the AHL.

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05-22-2009, 02:54 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
I don't think that 2-way contracts are a rarity any more. In fact I think they are commonplace for borderline players.

And, yes, players are certainly going to demand them since they would make the same amount of money regardless of which league they play in. But, on the flipside, teams aren't going to give a player a 1-way contract if they know up front that that player is going to spend any extended time in the AHL.
Well, let's put it this way... two-way contracts are a rarity with teams that are not stocking their minor league teams with journeyman and marginal talent to reach the roster and play competitive lower league hockey for the minor league city's fans... Yes when deep depth players are signed, and there is little expectation that they will not be a low priority... and the players are not sought after in the NHL -- case in point; the goalie that was signed to back up if Nitty would not be able to play at the beginning of last season (I forget the name, BTW).

In the case of the Flyers, most players in their AHL team are prospects, at least ones with some hope that they will blossom... They are signed often under competition with other NHL or foreign league teams. Yes, there are some two-ways, and yes, the teams would rather give them and the players would rather sign with a team that is willing to give them a one-way... Good teams are forced by the supply and demand principle to get an edge, whether it be a one-way or a NTC/NMC contract.

My guess is that a good portion of the Phantoms are on one-way contracts... Of course, what do I know?... I may be way off base. LOL

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05-22-2009, 03:02 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Why don't you call the Kings and ask if Hexy would like a HUGE demotion to come be a goalie scout for the Flyers.
i totally would too. he's doing a great job in LA and i think we could really use him now. did he ever scout goalies when he was a scout for us?

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05-22-2009, 03:28 PM
  #35
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i totally would too. he's doing a great job in LA and i think we could really use him now. did he ever scout goalies when he was a scout for us?
I really think that Hexy would have to take a weekend away and alone to mull over the choice.

Leave a next in line asst. GM position in a major city being paid big bucks... Or resign and pick up and move his family three thousand miles for a lower position, not next in the GM pecking order, which entails traveling around Europe and NA and living out of a suitcase, and being paid a much lower salary and getting less respect in the Hockey World.

I'm sure Hexy would do us a favor in the end though.

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05-22-2009, 05:47 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersJunky View Post
Well, let's put it this way... two-way contracts are a rarity with teams that are not stocking their minor league teams with journeyman and marginal talent to reach the roster and play competitive lower league hockey for the minor league city's fans... Yes when deep depth players are signed, and there is little expectation that they will not be a low priority... and the players are not sought after in the NHL -- case in point; the goalie that was signed to back up if Nitty would not be able to play at the beginning of last season (I forget the name, BTW).

In the case of the Flyers, most players in their AHL team are prospects, at least ones with some hope that they will blossom... They are signed often under competition with other NHL or foreign league teams. Yes, there are some two-ways, and yes, the teams would rather give them and the players would rather sign with a team that is willing to give them a one-way... Good teams are forced by the supply and demand principle to get an edge, whether it be a one-way or a NTC/NMC contract.

My guess is that a good portion of the Phantoms are on one-way contracts... Of course, what do I know?... I may be way off base. LOL
In today's AHL you cannot stock minor league teams with journeymen because they have a "veteran" rule in place that limits how many veterans can be on the active roster. That said the majority of the AHL rosters are made up of younger players. Further, the majority of these players never will see an NHL roster.

The majority of the players on the Phantoms rosters are not potential NHL players. If a quarter of them are it's a lot. The rest are there to fill out the roster.

I could be wrong, but if a good portion of the Phantoms are on one-way contracts they are on one-way AHL contracts. The NHL minimum salary for 2008 was $450,000. There is no way that the Flyers are paying most Phantoms $450,000.

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05-23-2009, 05:56 AM
  #37
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Most of the Phantoms are on two-way contracts for several reasons:
  1. Entry level contracts have to be two-way-contracts, a rule under the current CBA. (That covers Teslak, Kalinski, Ratchuk, Klotz, Matsumoto, Bartulis, Hersley, Bellamy, Duchesne, Maroon, Laliberté, Clackson and Beaulieu)
  2. Re-entry waivers, every veteran who earns above $100K in the AHL and played a certain amount of games in the NHL in the previous seasons would be subject to re-entry waivers. Those players could be claimed by other teams for half of their real caphit. (Kane, Curry, Aubin, Gratton, Ross, Munroe and Raduns for sure, they have been recalled without re-entry waivers)
I think everyone aside from Kukkonen was on either an NHL two-way contract or an AHL contract. The reason Cote hasn't been assigned to the Phantoms late in the season was that he is on a one-way contract, what means that he had to pass through re-entry waivers once he would be recalled.

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