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Vinny to LA Pretty Much Done Deal???

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Old
05-22-2009, 10:47 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
So the Bolts dont need a guy who kills penalties, plays the point on the PP, good in the face off department and plays physical?

and how about scoring?

That is why i think the bolts would ask for Brown over Stoll.

Stoll is a second/ 3rdliner--while Brown is a top liner and bring EVERYTHING the bolts need and leadership--something that got questioned in Stoll in Edmonton in bnis last two years

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Old
05-22-2009, 10:52 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
and how about scoring?

That is why i think the bolts would ask for Brown over Stoll.

Stoll is a second/ 3rdliner--while Brown is a top liner and bring EVERYTHING the bolts need and leadership--something that got questioned in Stoll in Edmonton in bnis last two years
I dont think his leadership was ever questioned except by people who speculate. As far as his scoring goes hes shown he can put up 60+ pts. They may ask for Brown but DL would have a mutiny on his hands if he traded the captain and the first young guy to show hes willing to commit to the Kings.

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05-22-2009, 10:55 AM
  #53
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If Vinny comes then, IMO, Handzus or Stoll will go the other way.

Vinny-Kopitar-Handzus-Stoll, that's about $22M on centers. ouch...someone will have to go. But if it was up to me, I wouldn't take Vinny at all. He will definitely make the Kings better, but with his $7.7M cap hit until he's 40...that's just asking for trouble.

But if a deal were to go down...I would imagine JJ+Handzus/Stoll+Moller+1st. IMO, Tampa wouldn't get a full value for him because his contract is just atrocious.

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05-22-2009, 10:58 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
and how about scoring?

That is why i think the bolts would ask for Brown over Stoll.

Stoll is a second/ 3rdliner--while Brown is a top liner and bring EVERYTHING the bolts need and leadership--something that got questioned in Stoll in Edmonton in bnis last two years
And they would ask for Kopitar, Doughty, Simmonds etc... over Stoll.

They can ask but they aren't going to get Dustin Brown. LA makes this deal to add to their Top-6, not create another hole.

Johnson, #5, Stoll, Prospect (Boyle/Purcell....Moller may be a sticking point)

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05-22-2009, 11:01 AM
  #55
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05-22-2009, 11:02 AM
  #56
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As much of a world class D-bag Strachan is, he's nowhere near Eklund, Garrioch, or even Brooks when it comes to stuff like this. He's proven to be well connected and has been right about this sort of stuff a lot more than I'd like to admit.

So while it's not written in stone, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it completely.

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05-22-2009, 11:03 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
And they would ask for Kopitar, Doughty, Simmonds etc... over Stoll.

They can ask but they aren't going to get Dustin Brown. LA makes this deal to add to their Top-6, not create another hole.

Johnson, #5, Stoll, Prospect (Boyle/Purcell....Moller may be a sticking point)

and not trying to be snarky about Tampa Bay, but if they asked for Frolov to be included in the deal and he does indeed go, they will almost certainly not be able to get him under contract until (at earliest) July 1st, 2010. even if he had a good deal of success and enjoyed playing there, he'd be a fool not to at least test free agency.

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05-22-2009, 11:16 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
and not trying to be snarky about Tampa Bay, but if they asked for Frolov to be included in the deal and he does indeed go, they will almost certainly not be able to get him under contract until (at earliest) July 1st, 2010. even if he had a good deal of success and enjoyed playing there, he'd be a fool not to at least test free agency.
Yeah...Frolov would definitely test UFA as any smart player would.

Tampa moves Stamkos to #1C and moves Stoll to #2C. They draft Hedman and have a defense of Hedman/Johnson/Meszaros/Ranger etc..

With the #5, they can draft MSP to eventually ride shotgun with Stamkos, Schenn to be the #2C behind Stamkos eventually or mimic the Kings formula of drafting defense and take Cowen. They would instantly have 3 blue-chip defensemen under 23 with two of them being 18-19.

Stoll's contract will drop off the books in time for Hedman and the #5's next contract.

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Old
05-22-2009, 11:25 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misfit View Post
As much of a world class D-bag Strachan is, he's nowhere near Eklund, Garrioch, or even Brooks when it comes to stuff like this. He's proven to be well connected and has been right about this sort of stuff a lot more than I'd like to admit.

So while it's not written in stone, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it completely.
That's how I feel about it. The Kings are one of the few teams to have the assets to get this kind of deal done, so where there's smoke, there's probably fire.

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Old
05-22-2009, 11:30 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
And they would ask for Kopitar, Doughty, Simmonds etc... over Stoll.

They can ask but they aren't going to get Dustin Brown. LA makes this deal to add to their Top-6, not create another hole.

Johnson, #5, Stoll, Prospect (Boyle/Purcell....Moller may be a sticking point)

few points... Brown pts wise is on the same level as Stoll.. Differnce is Brown is grittier and more of a goal scorere. Brown pts in the nhl have been 28-46-60-53. Vinny's over the sametime has been 75-108-92-67.

There is a big difference between Stall and Brown that is not in the points. To me that would be the deal breaker. Bolts are not stupid enough to take a guy who could walk away after the next season or a guy they might have to pay upwards of 6million and that is what Frolov is. Frolov for me is a none starter for this deal. Vinny in signed for 10 years or whatever and Frolov is gone aftert thios next season. So the bolts need a forward going back who can score some goals--that is brown.

Vinny has had 1 bad season and I think that is no small part to what is going on in TB, Vinny goal total have been 35-52-40-29.

Vinny is a goto guy and they do not grow on trees and it costs to get them and the BOLTS will not just give him away.

As for my comment about Stoll and his leadership, there is no speculatuion here---He lived in Mact's dog house the last year in edmonton and was called out not just by mact, but his fellow players for not doing everything they can.

bottom line is

Johnson, Frolov, Stoll and a pick wont get it done. The deal wont be built around Frolov, he is a UFA after the next season and is looking for a huge bump in pay and that is one of the reasons why the bolts are looking to trade Vinny.

I think the deal, if it is close to being done, will look like

Johnson, Brown and a pick

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Old
05-22-2009, 11:41 AM
  #61
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Why do people over Value Vinny Lecavalier so much???

You have to take in account that contract... Teams would give up more if it wasnt for his contract.

LA is not dealing.. Brown, Kopi, Doughty

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Old
05-22-2009, 11:42 AM
  #62
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TO LA: VINNY

TO TB:
2010 1st
Jack Johnson
Tom Preissing
Brian Boyle

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Old
05-22-2009, 11:50 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGSFAN4LIFE View Post
TO LA: VINNY

TO TB:
2010 1st
Jack Johnson
Tom Preissing
Brian Boyle


You can't be serious with deals like this.

That doesn't even get you a sniff.

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Old
05-22-2009, 11:50 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
Bolts are not stupid enough to take a guy who could walk away after the next season or a guy they might have to pay upwards of 6million and that is what Frolov is. Frolov for me is a none starter for this deal. Vinny in signed for 10 years or whatever and Frolov is gone aftert thios next season.
I disagree with that.

There is only one reason that Tampa moves Vinny and this is to dump salary.

Getting back Frolov and 1 or two blue chippers works very well for what ails them.

They get a reasonably high profile player at a manageable dollar amount that should put up decent numbers and in a year they clear the salary, which is exactly the problem that Tampa needs to take care of.

It works well in the sense that in a talent for talent kind of assessment Frolov helps bridge the gap enough to make the hockey part of the deal look alright at the time it's made. From a business perspective it fits as well because it helps alleviate the money issues that Tampa has. Next year even moreso than this year.

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05-22-2009, 11:52 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
I disagree with that.

There is only one reason that Tampa moves Vinny and this is to dump salary.

Getting back Frolov and 1 or two blue chippers works very well for what ails them.

They get a reasonably high profile player at a manageable dollar amount that should put up decent numbers and in a year they clear the salary, which is exactly the problem that Tampa needs to take care of.

It works well in the sense that in a talent for talent kind of assessment Frolov helps bridge the gap enough to make the hockey part of the deal look alright at the time it's made. From a business perspective it fits as well because it helps alleviate the money issues that Tampa has. Next year even moreso than this year.
one and out players aren't bridge players... which is why they call them rentals.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:03 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Agreed.
I have not understood 1 Vinny to XYZ yet. LA is the only team that makes any sense to me, they have a lot of nice young players, and using 2 nice young players plus a 2010 1st rounder would be good for both teams. LA gets to keep their high pick this year, they add 1 more top-end player and move some expendable parts for (IMO) a top-5 center in the NHL.

To Tampa:
1. Jack Johnson
2. Jarret Stoll
3. Alexander Frolov
4. 2010 1st
I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I had to respond to this because that offer is just ridiculous. If DL were to pull off that type of deal, he should be fired on the spot. That's the type of package you give to get Malkin or E. Staal, not VL.

I have said this in many threads, the kings area in a position of strength, TB is in a position of weakness. They are in serious financial trouble. They signed VL to a ridiculous contract with a NMC that kicks in on July 1st. The number of teams that can take on his salary are slim.

LA has the picks, prospects & cap space to take on his contract.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:06 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post


You can't be serious with deals like this.

That doesn't even get you a sniff.
actually i think that would get the talks started... you have to figure in VINNY's Contract...

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05-22-2009, 12:06 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
one and out players aren't bridge players... which is why they call them rentals.
Your point being?

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:14 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by JosieB7188 View Post
i dont understand why L.A would trade all these young highly potential guys for vinny. when at center they already have kopitar who is only gonna improve each year. doesnt make sense to me that L.A trades for vinny. if they were going to make a trade i could see them going after a goalie. I think frolov and jack johnson package could easily get a decent return but going after someone like vinny is the wrong idea.
[3] Correct. Yeah we need that 1/2 punch but not Vinny that Contract is a huge turn off.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:17 PM
  #70
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Does anyone have links to Tampa being in "serious financial trouble" other than hearsay?

I mean, I want to see NHL execs, the BoG, or the ownership come forward with some sort of "righting the ship" statement for TBL before I buy into this idea that they're in "serious financial trouble."

Otherwise, all were seeing is a team that would prefer to reload on the cheap and keep their costs down by unloading a hefty contract if there are any takers. It isn't an anomaly.

Every year there are 5-10 teams in "serious financial trouble" and yet each one manages to make some adjustments and move forward and ice a team without selling, relocating, etc. It's like some of you live in this world where the majority of sports owners actually eat and have a roof over their heads because of a sports franchise they own. It's a write off. Losses are normally shrugged off. Read the business section of the boards more often.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:19 PM
  #71
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Man Idk what to think of this deal, I really like Vinny but his contract is disgusting.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:19 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by KINGSFAN4LIFE View Post
actually i think that would get the talks started... you have to figure in VINNY's Contract...
Being the foundation for a deal and "getting the talks started" are two different things. At this point, the only consistent foundation for this deal getting done is likely the #5. I wouldn't say JJ is a sure thing at this point.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:19 PM
  #73
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I cant really see this happening. LA has dished off their big contract older guys. They are building a good young core of players. Now they are going to give that up for an older uber-expensive player? I thought only Edmonton did crap like that.

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05-22-2009, 12:23 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Dave in LA View Post
I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I had to respond to this because that offer is just ridiculous. If DL were to pull off that type of deal, he should be fired on the spot. That's the type of package you give to get Malkin or E. Staal, not VL.
FYI: Vincent Lecavalier at 7,727,273 >> Eric Staal at 8,250,000
An overpriced 3rd/2nd line center, a young defenseman that hasn't lived up to the "future #1" hype, a UFA to be LWer after next season and a 1st in next year's draft does not get you Malkin on any plant, but it might get you a top-5 center from a team that needs depth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in LA View Post
I have said this in many threads, the kings area in a position of strength, TB is in a position of weakness. They are in serious financial trouble. They signed VL to a ridiculous contract with a NMC that kicks in on July 1st. The number of teams that can take on his salary are slim.

LA has the picks, prospects & cap space to take on his contract.
If Vincent Lecavalier is traded, there are 29 teams that will at least ask. The fact that you think that offer is "ridiculous" shows you're just a homer. I have no dog in this fight, I put together an offer that helps both teams... but yea, it's ridiculous even though LA managed to keep their 4 best chips: Brown, Kopitar, Doughty, The #5 pick.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:27 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in LA View Post
I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I had to respond to this because that offer is just ridiculous. If DL were to pull off that type of deal, he should be fired on the spot. That's the type of package you give to get Malkin or E. Staal, not VL.


Not saying I agree with it but you're really going overboard with this. If Frolov and JJ were signed long-term for a good price, than I would agree.

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