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Vinny to LA Pretty Much Done Deal???

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:29 PM
  #76
hkyplyr16
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This in my opinion is the fairest deal for both sides

TO TAMPA

Jack Johnson
Ted Purcell
Jarrett Stoll
2009 1st

To Kings

Lecavalier

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:30 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
well

I will play along


Jack Johnson, first rounder this year and Dustin Brown for Vinny?
HUGE overpayment. Drop Brown and add Boyle or somebody.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:31 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
If the Kings are giving up a 1st, it's probably next year.


I'm sure if a deal is being done, knowing Lieweike and Anschutz, they're totally holding it against the Lightning for signing him to an 11-year contract they didn't get to negotiate.
I know its VL, but I still cant see people giving up a crazy amount of assets for someone that has that long term and large of contract. Id say the team receiving VL definitely has the advantage on trade bargaining especially if Tampa is trying to dump salary.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:32 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
one and out players aren't bridge players... which is why they call them rentals.


Thank you--

you can not have on of the center pieces bieung a guy who is only there for a year

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05-22-2009, 12:34 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copperandblue View Post
Your point being?
Tampa Bay would be stupid to ask for Frolov, and in the long run, the Kings would be equally stupid to capitulate.

Jarret Stoll is much more representative of a bridge player. that isn't saying he should be or would be part of the Lightning's asking price, nor is he likely to be part of the Kings' offer. but it'd make much more sense. frankly, i think Dean would be much more inclined to kick the tires with Michal Handzus to see how he feels about waiving his NMC to go to an equally uncertain, though less familiar future in Tampa Bay.

Jack Johnson is enormously talented and should be a pretty terrific player in this league... along with two picks in the top-5 this summer and a forward prospect like Moller or Loktionov should be enough to at least get the ball rolling.

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05-22-2009, 12:34 PM
  #81
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The returns from LA in the proposals are ridiculous. If Jack Johnson and a fifth overall pick are both included, any other assets won't be anywhere near close in value to either. JJ and the 5th would make up something like 75% of the package's value. There's probably room for a decent prospect or pick to be thrown in, but that's about it. I mean you're talking about Jack Johnson and one of Evander Kane, Brayden Schenn, Magnus Svensson, or Jared Cowen.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:37 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I cant really see this happening. LA has dished off their big contract older guys. They are building a good young core of players. Now they are going to give that up for an older uber-expensive player? I thought only Edmonton did crap like that.
You are missing the point of this deal. The Kings are not "giving up" on the young core of players as Kopitar/Brown/Frolov/Doughty/Hickey/Quincey/Teubert/Voinov/Simmonds/Moller etc.... are not all moving in this deal.

You can't have an entire team of kids and hope they figure it all out. You need some veteran leadership and you need it to be a skilled guy, someone who can put a team on his shoulders and show the young kids how it should be done.

Kings trade Johnson and still have Doughty,Quincey,Greene,Hickey,Teubert and Voinov. It's a position of strength while a legit stud center (Kopitar is not it at this point and needs help) is a position of weakness for LA.

Don't underestimate having a star player with good looks in the LA market as well. Sure, AEG will have to spend more money but you would figure that they would be making more money with Lecavalier, especially when they finally get some playoff dates.

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05-22-2009, 12:42 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
You are missing the point of this deal. The Kings are not "giving up" on the young core of players as Kopitar/Brown/Frolov/Doughty/Hickey/Quincey/Teubert/Voinov/Simmonds/Moller etc.... are not all moving in this deal.

You can't have an entire team of kids and hope they figure it all out. You need some veteran leadership and you need it to be a skilled guy, someone who can put a team on his shoulders and show the young kids how it should be done.

Kings trade Johnson and still have Doughty,Quincey,Greene,Hickey,Teubert and Voinov. It's a position of strength while a legit stud center (Kopitar is not it at this point and needs help) is a position of weakness for LA.

Don't underestimate having a star player with good looks in the LA market as well. Sure, AEG will have to spend more money but you would figure that they would be making more money with Lecavalier, especially when they finally get some playoff dates.

Vincent Lecavalier will make Anze Kopitar a better and more productive center. he represents the last real need for Kopitar in order to take it to the next level.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:45 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
You are missing the point of this deal. The Kings are not "giving up" on the young core of players as Kopitar/Brown/Frolov/Doughty/Hickey/Quincey/Teubert/Voinov/Simmonds/Moller etc.... are not all moving in this deal.

You can't have an entire team of kids and hope they figure it all out. You need some veteran leadership and you need it to be a skilled guy, someone who can put a team on his shoulders and show the young kids how it should be done.

Kings trade Johnson and still have Doughty,Quincey,Greene,Hickey,Teubert and Voinov. It's a position of strength while a legit stud center (Kopitar is not it at this point and needs help) is a position of weakness for LA.

Don't underestimate having a star player with good looks in the LA market as well. Sure, AEG will have to spend more money but you would figure that they would be making more money with Lecavalier, especially when they finally get some playoff dates.
You make waaaaaaayyyyyyy too much sense.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:45 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
well

I will play along


Jack Johnson, first rounder this year and Dustin Brown for Vinny?
I like Vinny, but I really don't ever see LA trading Dustin Brown, regardless of who is coming back.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:46 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
HUGE overpayment. Drop Brown and add Boyle or somebody.
that would be a deal breaker for me--

Brown would be the key to the deal. I would be willing to makethe pick a 2010.

The drop of from Boyle is too much for the key piece going back

at 25 yers of age Boyle is getting inched into the bust catagory of former first rounders--he maybe 6 foot 7 but that does not make him any good--he is a side show right now.

I realize he is coming out of University and that there is still more questions then answers right now--but the kinsg are getting the best player in the deal.

The bolts would be taking a huge gamble already in taken the head case reported to be Johnson--they need something solid in return and Boyle and Johnson do not add up to Vinny.

He is the best player in the trade.

let me take it from another perspecive...

Johnson, Boyle and the 2010 first round pick of the kIngs Vs

either Dave Gagner or Cogliano, Tom Gilbert, and the oilers first roudn pick this year and or maybe add Eberle.

Before you say cap trouble oilers, toss either Penner or Horcoff on the farm

There are teams out there that could better a Johnson, Boyle and 2010 first.

Don't come back with Frolov, he is a rentel--one and done

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:48 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGSFAN4LIFE View Post
TO LA: VINNY

TO TB:
2009 1st (5th)
Jack Johnson
Tom Preissing
Oscar Moller
Fixed, I am thinking this is something that TB could get on board with.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:48 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
Tampa Bay would be stupid to ask for Frolov, and in the long run, the Kings would be equally stupid to capitulate.

...
You're talking about what would be smart as a hockey move. The smart hockey move is tying up and keeping Lecavalier, which they did.

If they trade him it is a business decision.

My point is that Frolov fit's as a business decision.

If LA trades Frolov + a blue chip prospect or young player and a draft pick (or what ever combination you want to envision) then Frolov serves as nothing more than window dressing for a salary dump, which this deal is.

It saves Tampa 6 mil in cash this year and if they don't re-sign him atleast another 4 mil next year.

I agree with you that Frolov doesn't make sense from a hockey perspective, assuming Tampa is trading Lecavalier, but this isn't about making a hockey move.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:48 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
that would be a deal breaker for me--

Brown would be the key to the deal. I would be willing to makethe pick a 2010.

The drop of from Boyle is too much for the key piece going back

at 25 yers of age Boyle is getting inched into the bust catagory of former first rounders--he maybe 6 foot 7 but that does not make him any good--he is a side show right now.

I realize he is coming out of University and that there is still more questions then answers right now--but the kinsg are getting the best player in the deal.

The bolts would be taking a huge gamble already in taken the head case reported to be Johnson--they need something solid in return and Boyle and Johnson do not add up to Vinny.

He is the best player in the trade.

let me take it from another perspecive...

Johnson, Boyle and the 2010 first round pick of the kIngs Vs

either Dave Gagner or Cogliano, Tom Gilbert, and the oilers first roudn pick this year and or maybe add Eberle.

Before you say cap trouble oilers, toss either Penner or Horcoff on the farm

There are teams out there that could better a Johnson, Boyle and 2010 first.

Don't come back with Frolov, he is a rentel--one and done
Dave Gagner?


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Old
05-22-2009, 12:49 PM
  #90
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Brown isn't going in a deal for another veteren player. He's not going in a deal for a young player, either. Brown's just not going anywhere.

I was talking 2009 first, the fifth overall, BTW. Jack Johnson+Kane/Schenn/Svensson/Cowen

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:51 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by fivehole93 View Post
Fixed, I am thinking this is something that TB could get on board with.
Looks about right to me, too.

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Old
05-22-2009, 12:53 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by MTLHabsAK46 View Post
Depends.

They gave him a NTC in his 11-year contract. Should they ship him wherever THEY want (without asking), then they are just plain unprofessional.
and the Lightning organization hasn't hinted at the slightest lack of professionalism.

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05-22-2009, 12:53 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
Dave Gagner?

sorry

sam

althought maybe the Bolts would do a Burke nad insist Dave be incleded

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Old
05-22-2009, 01:08 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
and the Lightning organization hasn't hinted at the slightest lack of professionalism.


You know what, all of you....

just stop. You're confusing yourselves. Vinny isn't going anywhere, period.

Thanks.

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Old
05-22-2009, 01:11 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
You are missing the point of this deal. The Kings are not "giving up" on the young core of players as Kopitar/Brown/Frolov/Doughty/Hickey/Quincey/Teubert/Voinov/Simmonds/Moller etc.... are not all moving in this deal.

You can't have an entire team of kids and hope they figure it all out. You need some veteran leadership and you need it to be a skilled guy, someone who can put a team on his shoulders and show the young kids how it should be done.

Kings trade Johnson and still have Doughty,Quincey,Greene,Hickey,Teubert and Voinov. It's a position of strength while a legit stud center (Kopitar is not it at this point and needs help) is a position of weakness for LA.

Don't underestimate having a star player with good looks in the LA market as well. Sure, AEG will have to spend more money but you would figure that they would be making more money with Lecavalier, especially when they finally get some playoff dates.
I dont disagree. It just doesnt fit what has been going on in LA. I wouldnt worry too much about making the playoffs. Your team is in a very good position to be in the top third of the conference for years. This year or next year for sure.

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Old
05-22-2009, 01:13 PM
  #96
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Come on, we know the NHL won't exist in 2018. Who cares what his cap hit is

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Old
05-22-2009, 01:20 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
that would be a deal breaker for me--

Brown would be the key to the deal. I would be willing to makethe pick a 2010.

The drop of from Boyle is too much for the key piece going back

at 25 yers of age Boyle is getting inched into the bust catagory of former first rounders--he maybe 6 foot 7 but that does not make him any good--he is a side show right now.

I realize he is coming out of University and that there is still more questions then answers right now--but the kinsg are getting the best player in the deal.

The bolts would be taking a huge gamble already in taken the head case reported to be Johnson--they need something solid in return and Boyle and Johnson do not add up to Vinny.

He is the best player in the trade.

let me take it from another perspecive...

Johnson, Boyle and the 2010 first round pick of the kIngs Vs

either Dave Gagner or Cogliano, Tom Gilbert, and the oilers first roudn pick this year and or maybe add Eberle.

Before you say cap trouble oilers, toss either Penner or Horcoff on the farm

There are teams out there that could better a Johnson, Boyle and 2010 first.

Don't come back with Frolov, he is a rentel--one and done
First - well thought out post. I agree 100% that LA could put together a deal that other teams wouldn't be able to match, but that's not the goal. It ultimately comes down to which assets the Bolts prefer. I happen to think that:

JJ, 5th overall, Boyle > Cogliano, Gilbert & 12th overall, but that's just IMO. Replace Cogs w/ Gagne, and it's pretty close. I just think that either offer (SG in deal from EDM) is good value for TB given VL's contract.

Also, while the Oilers could demote DP or SH, it would be a HUGE admission that DP was a brutal deal, and the owner might not want to eat $7M in Horcoff's salary in the minors.

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Old
05-22-2009, 01:25 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I dont disagree. It just doesnt fit what has been going on in LA. I wouldnt worry too much about making the playoffs. Your team is in a very good position to be in the top third of the conference for years. This year or next year for sure.
that all depends upon your politics.

all things considered, the Kings have finally crossed the threshold where they can now finally begin to consider making moves like this.

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05-22-2009, 01:26 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGSFAN4LIFE View Post
TO LA: VINNY

TO TB:
2010 1st
Jack Johnson
Tom Preissing
Brian Boyle
This is pretty much what I've proposed all along...

DO IT DEANO!!!

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Old
05-22-2009, 01:31 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Dave in LA View Post
I haven't read the rest of the thread yet, but I had to respond to this because that offer is just ridiculous. If DL were to pull off that type of deal, he should be fired on the spot. That's the type of package you give to get Malkin or E. Staal, not VL.

I have said this in many threads, the kings area in a position of strength, TB is in a position of weakness. They are in serious financial trouble. They signed VL to a ridiculous contract with a NMC that kicks in on July 1st. The number of teams that can take on his salary are slim.

LA has the picks, prospects & cap space to take on his contract.
1. No that doesn't get you Malkin, you might get Staal but that is doubtful for that.
2. They're not in "serious financial trouble", they still make money on the forum but they're short on on-hand cash just like any other franchise.
3. The actual cap hit for his contract isn't as bad as people are making it out to be. Its plenty manageable. The length and cash number is what hurts.

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