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Vinny to LA Pretty Much Done Deal???

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Old
05-22-2009, 02:34 PM
  #101
KingsCourt
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as good as VL is, you have to consider the huge contract. it's been mentioned in this thread but but not sure ppl are calculating that into the equation, when asking for world for VL.

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05-22-2009, 02:38 PM
  #102
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Whoever thinks Dustin Brown is leaving LA in the deal for Vinny is crazy..
We're barely paying him 4 million and he's our captain, why in the world would we deal him away? People are *********

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05-22-2009, 02:39 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I dont disagree. It just doesnt fit what has been going on in LA. I wouldnt worry too much about making the playoffs. Your team is in a very good position to be in the top third of the conference for years. This year or next year for sure.
That's the thing...they aren't really in all that great of a position because so much is still based in prospects and hopes. The top forwards on this team aren't a Richards or Getzlaf in terms of leadership and attitude and I believe they will continue to flounder and, if they did make the playoffs, it would be ugly.

They were shut out 11 TIMES (maybe 12?) last year. The forward position isn't as rosey as many believe as Kopitar may only be a 75-80 point center and Brown tops out as a 30 goal guy. There isn't a gamebreaker to be had amongst the offensive prospects, mainly great 3rd liners or good 2nd liners. They could draft MSP and HOPE he becomes that gamebreaker or they can take the sure thing that is Lecavalier and, at the same time, help develop Kopitar into what he can be.

**** or get off the pot. LA can keep being the darlings of the HF Organizational Rankings or they can try to win some f'ing hockey games.

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05-22-2009, 02:46 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by antdvda View Post
So Al Strachan was on HNIC Radio yesterday and said Vinny to LA is pretty much a done deal.

How reliable is this guy?
He predicted the Melrose firing weeks before it happened and actually came within hours of his predicted date!

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05-22-2009, 02:47 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
That's the thing...they aren't really in all that great of a position because so much is still based in prospects and hopes. The top forwards on this team aren't a Richards or Getzlaf in terms of leadership and attitude and I believe they will continue to flounder and, if they did make the playoffs, it would be ugly.

They were shut out 11 TIMES (maybe 12?) last year. The forward position isn't as rosey as many believe as Kopitar may only be a 75-80 point center and Brown tops out as a 30 goal guy. There isn't a gamebreaker to be had amongst the offensive prospects, mainly great 3rd liners or good 2nd liners. They could draft MSP and HOPE he becomes that gamebreaker or they can take the sure thing that is Lecavalier and, at the same time, help develop Kopitar into what he can be.

**** or get off the pot. LA can keep being the darlings of the HF Organizational Rankings or they can try to win some f'ing hockey games.


i still think you're on steroids, by the way.

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05-22-2009, 02:51 PM
  #106
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my two cents....

Many people here seem to think VL's contact is horrendous, so if it truly is and only 2 maybe 3 teams can even afford to take on the contract, how does tampa get fair value? sure the fair value might be JJ, frolov or brown and a 1st, but there is no way Tampa gets fair value....if the contract is that bad

second, i think the kings are barking up the wrong tree, i would parlay these "assets" and trade for kovalchuk. He could be a face of the franchise, flare type player people in LA would love, he could be the oveckin west coast

Or just play the odds and sign Hossa in July if he becomes available

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05-22-2009, 02:51 PM
  #107
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The one owner of the Lightning is the guy who makes the Saw movies. He still has lots of cash. He just does not want to spend it all on the Lightning.
In which case, it's an even larger indictment of the team's signing of VL to a long-term deal last year.

You commit to guys like that - rightly or wrongly - if you deem them long-term, foundational players, only.

Richards and Ovechkin, for example, are going nowhere, nor would their respective teams consider for a nanosecond moving them.

To sign VL for that many year one summer...and be considering to move him the next summer, reeks of fantasyleague-like, bi-polar asset management.

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05-22-2009, 02:54 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Agreed.
I have not understood 1 Vinny to XYZ yet. LA is the only team that makes any sense to me, they have a lot of nice young players, and using 2 nice young players plus a 2010 1st rounder would be good for both teams. LA gets to keep their high pick this year, they add 1 more top-end player and move some expendable parts for (IMO) a top-5 center in the NHL.

To Tampa:
1. Jack Johnson
2. Jarret Stoll
3. Alexander Frolov
4. 2010 1st
Exactly because of that it will not happen

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05-22-2009, 02:57 PM
  #109
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Something weird is going through my head...that this Vinny deal is going to be a three way dance...

The Kings send a package of players and draft picks to Tampa...then trade Vinny to the Habs to refill the holes created by the initial trade...

Trust me...I'd crack up BIG TIME if this situation happens...

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05-22-2009, 02:59 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by hattrick74 View Post
my two cents....

Many people here seem to think VL's contact is horrendous, so if it truly is and only 2 maybe 3 teams can even afford to take on the contract, how does tampa get fair value? sure the fair value might be JJ, frolov or brown and a 1st, but there is no way Tampa gets fair value....if the contract is that bad

second, i think the kings are barking up the wrong tree, i would parlay these "assets" and trade for kovalchuk. He could be a face of the franchise, flare type player people in LA would love, he could be the oveckin west coast

Or just play the odds and sign Hossa in July if he becomes available

We'd love Kovalchuk but he would take more IMO and, frankly, I don't think he is available. Atlanta will back up the Brink's truck for him. There is no way they can justify trading him and DL won't trade for him unless a deal is place.

Playing the odds for Hossa will be a losing proposition for LA.

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05-22-2009, 03:05 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by KingLudwig View Post
Something weird is going through my head...that this Vinny deal is going to be a three way dance...

The Kings send a package of players and draft picks to Tampa...then trade Vinny to the Habs to refill the holes created by the initial trade...

Trust me...I'd crack up BIG TIME if this situation happens...
THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY HOLES!!! THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!

Look, these guys everyone is upset about losing just finished 5th worst, a giant leap from being tied for worst. Hickey or Voinov can come in next year, Voinov IMO, and be hard pressed to put up worse numbers than Johnson.

DL gathered all of these guys so he can swing a big deal, much like DW did with DL's guys in obtaining Thornton. He did not get all of these guys to hold on to all of them. All of these defensemen have been drafted because one or two of them are to be used to fill a need other than the blueline because, quite frankly, I think DL has got that covered.

Anyways, LA could just trade these guys to MTL right away and then they could ship them to TB for Lecavalier. Why you would think/want that to happen as a Kings fan is beyond me.

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05-22-2009, 03:11 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
In which case, it's an even larger indictment of the team's signing of VL to a long-term deal last year.

You commit to guys like that - rightly or wrongly - if you deem them long-term, foundational players, only.

Richards and Ovechkin, for example, are going nowhere, nor would their respective teams consider for a nanosecond moving them.

To sign VL for that many year one summer...and be considering to move him the next summer, reeks of fantasyleague-like, bi-polar asset management.
true. but a funny thing happened along the way... the 2008-09 hockey season.

they certainly don't have to deal him. but doing so would seriously facilitate any other ancillary moves to make that team better.

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05-22-2009, 03:25 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Sure buddy.

....because who cares if Vinny, at age 35, will put up 50 points a year for another 4/5/6 seasons at $7.5M cap hit. Nobody !
So Vinny is only gonna put up 50 points a season eh? I can see why you wouldn't give up much if thats how much you know about Vinny. Which is clearly not very much

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05-22-2009, 03:26 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
Whoever thinks Dustin Brown is leaving LA in the deal for Vinny is crazy..
We're barely paying him 4 million and he's our captain, why in the world would we deal him away? People are *********
Im thinking the same thing. Makes no sense even 1 for 1. Brown is untouchable as much as Markov in Montreal. The big (huge) stiking point in any deal is Vinny's brand new $88 million contract. TB is dreaming if they think they could ask for the best assets of any team.

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05-22-2009, 03:33 PM
  #115
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The only way LA trades for Vinny is if it's for Johnson, Stoll and Purcell..

At that point, I think DL would ask to swap 1st rounders too..
Frolov is not in the deal, Brown either..
LA's biggest concern coming into the next season is scoring and a sniper. Frolov scored 32 goals last year.. Why in the world would be trade away our top goal scorer if that's what our team is lacking.. We're supposed to compliment him and add more guys who can score, whether it's through trades or through free agency..

I said we go after Zherdev but people weren't for it..
I don't agree with trading for Lecavalier since there is one guy that will be available on the free agency market by the name of Marian Hossa..

LA can sign one of the 3 big fish (Hossa, Havlat or Gaborik) and will probably put up the same numbers as Lecavalier, so why trade a bunch of your assets away when you can sign guys that will contribute in the same exact way..

Now, if Jack Johnson is demanding a deal and wants out of LA, then it's a completely different situation..
At that point, I'd be willing to deal Jack Johnson for Ryan Callahan straight up

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05-22-2009, 03:34 PM
  #116
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That's the thing...they aren't really in all that great of a position because so much is still based in prospects and hopes. The top forwards on this team aren't a Richards or Getzlaf in terms of leadership and attitude and I believe they will continue to flounder and, if they did make the playoffs, it would be ugly.

They were shut out 11 TIMES (maybe 12?) last year. The forward position isn't as rosey as many believe as Kopitar may only be a 75-80 point center and Brown tops out as a 30 goal guy. There isn't a gamebreaker to be had amongst the offensive prospects, mainly great 3rd liners or good 2nd liners. They could draft MSP and HOPE he becomes that gamebreaker or they can take the sure thing that is Lecavalier and, at the same time, help develop Kopitar into what he can be.

**** or get off the pot. LA can keep being the darlings of the HF Organizational Rankings or they can try to win some f'ing hockey games.
Agree 100%. It's certainly time for the Kings to move into winning mode. The trade wouldn't just be for the sake of getting THE franchise forward, but for the sake of telling everyone involved in the organization, from the fans and the players to the highest administration that the time to start win is now, and that winning is to be expected, not hoped for.

Buy when someone's value is low should also apply for this occasion. Superstar centers aren't available just like that and I'd offer a lot for him, if indeed it is any truth to him being available. I just can't grasp why he would be.

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05-22-2009, 04:01 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
The only way LA trades for Vinny is if it's for Johnson, Stoll and Purcell..

At that point, I think DL would ask to swap 1st rounders too..
Frolov is not in the deal, Brown either..
LA's biggest concern coming into the next season is scoring and a sniper. Frolov scored 32 goals last year.. Why in the world would be trade away our top goal scorer if that's what our team is lacking.. We're supposed to compliment him and add more guys who can score, whether it's through trades or through free agency..

I said we go after Zherdev but people weren't for it..
I don't agree with trading for Lecavalier since there is one guy that will be available on the free agency market by the name of Marian Hossa..

LA can sign one of the 3 big fish (Hossa, Havlat or Gaborik) and will probably put up the same numbers as Lecavalier, so why trade a bunch of your assets away when you can sign guys that will contribute in the same exact way..

Now, if Jack Johnson is demanding a deal and wants out of LA, then it's a completely different situation..
At that point, I'd be willing to deal Jack Johnson for Ryan Callahan straight up
I don't think you should assume that you can sign H, H or G at this point, or that if you get Havlat or Gaborik they stay healthy. Hossa took a 1 year deal for the best chance to win the Cup, not sure if he's going to risk a long term contract on a LA franchise that while making strides, have been a poorly managed franchise for a while now.

I'd be 10x more comfortable trading significant assets for VL than risking it all on a big money, long term deal for Havlat or Gaborik. VL was coming off of shoulder surgery this year and wasn't close to 100% from what I saw. Sure the last 2-3 years of his contract are risky, but he's a franchise player IMO. Moving a replacable JJ, a good prospect and first round DP (preferably 2010) would be a slam dunk IMO.

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05-22-2009, 04:05 PM
  #118
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So Al Strachan was on HNIC Radio yesterday and said Vinny to LA is pretty much a done deal.

How reliable is this guy?
Not reliable....I just some him on TV today (the score) and he LA and Montreal are both interested in him......he didn't go any further than that.

Strachan is a piece of garbage if you ask me. I am waiting for Milbury to knock his head off on the satellite hotstove

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05-22-2009, 04:08 PM
  #119
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The only way LA trades for Vinny is if it's for Johnson, Stoll and Purcell..

At that point, I think DL would ask to swap 1st rounders too..
Frolov is not in the deal, Brown either..
LA's biggest concern coming into the next season is scoring and a sniper. Frolov scored 32 goals last year.. Why in the world would be trade away our top goal scorer if that's what our team is lacking.. We're supposed to compliment him and add more guys who can score, whether it's through trades or through free agency..

I said we go after Zherdev but people weren't for it..
I don't agree with trading for Lecavalier since there is one guy that will be available on the free agency market by the name of Marian Hossa..

LA can sign one of the 3 big fish (Hossa, Havlat or Gaborik) and will probably put up the same numbers as Lecavalier, so why trade a bunch of your assets away when you can sign guys that will contribute in the same exact way..

Now, if Jack Johnson is demanding a deal and wants out of LA, then it's a completely different situation..
At that point, I'd be willing to deal Jack Johnson for Ryan Callahan straight up
So TB is going to send you Vinny and the 2nd overall pick for the 5th overall, Jack Johnson and Jarret Stoll?

Say what you want about Vinny's contract but he is one of the best players in the league and would make your team alot better.

Lecavalier and Kopitar down the middle would be outstanding.

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Old
05-22-2009, 04:08 PM
  #120
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i still think you're on steroids, by the way.
That's how he went from being AboveAverageKing to Big King

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05-22-2009, 04:14 PM
  #121
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So Vinny is only gonna put up 50 points a season eh? I can see why you wouldn't give up much if thats how much you know about Vinny. Which is clearly not very much
I said "WHEN HE IS 35"....

Do you expect he's still kicking ass at that age for another 6 years ?

No

Your original comment was laughable that you were pretty sure that LA would give up any player on their roster for Vinny and the bolts didn't need to accept any of LA's salary dumping...

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05-22-2009, 04:23 PM
  #122
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Listening to Lombardi flap his gums over the last handful of years leads me to believe that Vinny's contract is something he'd like to stay far away from. We're very lucky that Kopitar and Brown are signed long term, but guys like Doughty, Simmonds, Quick, maybe Bernier, are all patiently waiting for a payday. Doughty is going to want a serious contract in a few years. Same with Quick or Bernier, depending on who's starting at that point. Guys like Simmonds and Moller are children and have been impressive already. By contract time, they may be asking for decent money. Now, add to that Voinov, Teubert, this years #5 pick... and that's a lot of cash you have to factor in down the line.

I'm just saying, I love VL, but I'm extremely concerned that we'd be indirectly jeopardizing future contracts by devoting that large a chunk of our cap space to one player, as fantastic as the guy is on the ice.

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05-22-2009, 04:24 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
I said "WHEN HE IS 35"....

Do you expect he's still kicking ass at that age for another 6 years ?

No

Your original comment was laughable that you were pretty sure that LA would give up any player on their roster for Vinny and the bolts didn't need to accept any of LA's salary dumping...
Mark Recchi put up 75 at the age of 35, 64 at the age of 37, 68 as a 38 year old, and 61 as a 40 year old...

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05-22-2009, 04:25 PM
  #124
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Strachan was on for quite a while before Milbury joined, they weren't brought in together.

He's been right many times but when you report everything you hear, you're going to be wrong more times than not.

I think the disdain for him probably stems more from his weasley demeanour than the actual job he does.
Exactly. Can't tell ya how many times I caught myself making a fist when talks . He remind me more of some two bit ambulance chaser than a hockey analyst.

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05-22-2009, 04:33 PM
  #125
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Listening to Lombardi flap his gums over the last handful of years leads me to believe that Vinny's contract is something he'd like to stay far away from. We're very lucky that Kopitar and Brown are signed long term, but guys like Doughty, Simmonds, Quick, maybe Bernier, are all patiently waiting for a payday. Doughty is going to want a serious contract in a few years. Same with Quick or Bernier, depending on who's starting at that point. Guys like Simmonds and Moller are children and have been impressive already. By contract time, they may be asking for decent money. Now, add to that Voinov, Teubert, this years #5 pick... and that's a lot of cash you have to factor in down the line.

I'm just saying, I love VL, but I'm extremely concerned that we'd be indirectly jeopardizing future contracts by devoting that large a chunk of our cap space to one player, as fantastic as the guy is on the ice.

What if it isnt entirely Lombardi's decision?

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