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Vinny to LA Pretty Much Done Deal???

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Old
05-22-2009, 03:44 PM
  #126
Sniper7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
If we get Vinny, Preissing is going the other way with JJ, that will help with Vinny's gross contract. Plus Boyle an Moller could go. I wouldn't mind seeing Stoll go, but Frolov stays.
Frolov stays for sure, the Kings need LW scoring, so trading Fro leaves an evan bigger hole to fill. If Tampa trades Vinny they'll go into a full rebuild & a guy with one year left on his contract doesn't fill their needs. Moving Preissing would be tough, but Stoll would be part of the trade in moving salary and giving Tampa a proven NHLer.

From LA:
JJ
Stoll
Boyle
Moller
09 1st

From Tampa
Vinny

All that being said I hate Vinny's contract.

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Old
05-22-2009, 03:46 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
I don't think you should assume that you can sign H, H or G at this point, or that if you get Havlat or Gaborik they stay healthy. Hossa took a 1 year deal for the best chance to win the Cup, not sure if he's going to risk a long term contract on a LA franchise that while making strides, have been a poorly managed franchise for a while now.

I'd be 10x more comfortable trading significant assets for VL than risking it all on a big money, long term deal for Havlat or Gaborik. VL was coming off of shoulder surgery this year and wasn't close to 100% from what I saw. Sure the last 2-3 years of his contract are risky, but he's a franchise player IMO. Moving a replacable JJ, a good prospect and first round DP (preferably 2010) would be a slam dunk IMO.
The Kings have been extremely well managed the last few seasons. How do you think they got into a position to make a deal like this?

My two cents. No way Frolov and Brown are in this deal for the Kings. It's probably something like Johnson, Moller, our 2009 1st, ++. If I were Tampa I would be asking for Simmonds as the ++, but that might not work for Lombardi. I'm sure that Lombardi would like to keep Stoll's name out of it too, and would rather move Handzus if he would waive his NMC.

Lombardi doesn't make this deal unless he gets to bend Tampa over at least a little bit. No need to offer them fair value, because VLC's contract is a tough one to move. All they have to do is make a better offer than the handful of teams that might also be interested.

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Old
05-22-2009, 03:48 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper7 View Post
All that being said I hate Vinny's contract.
Everybody hates Vinny's contract, with the exception of Vinny. The fact that Tampa now appears to hate it as well is what makes him available. It also the contract that makes the Kings one of the few teams who can afford him.

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05-22-2009, 04:05 PM
  #129
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Please keep Simmonds in LA.

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05-22-2009, 04:08 PM
  #130
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People assume Jack Johnson has trade value - but who would want him, his father and their attitudes?

Tampa Bay might be dumb enough to make him the centerpiece, but they'll be advised against it by pretty much everybody.

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05-22-2009, 04:09 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by wabwat View Post
true. but a funny thing happened along the way... the 2008-09 hockey season.

they certainly don't have to deal him. but doing so would seriously facilitate any other ancillary moves to make that team better.
But that ignores the point I stated: you build around a "core player" to whom you've just recently handed a mega-year, mega-money contract. Changing, based on one season, as you suggest they just may have, is not a plan. It'd reactionary and poor management.

Ancillary moves, of course. Your core player, just in his prime? Fantasyleaguitis. And you do not move VL to open up opportunities to acquire ancillary players (read: interchangeable, support types).

Now, of course, I recognize we are having this friendly discussion on HF, where it's casually accepted that you move a proven NHL star "to make room for" the next 18 year old great. But let's talk real world.

Of course, the Lightning have not moved VL, so I'm getting ahead of myself.


Last edited by Trottier: 05-22-2009 at 04:15 PM.
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Old
05-22-2009, 04:10 PM
  #132
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I don't believe much of anything Al Strachan says. This isn't the first time he's predicted that Vinny would leave the Bolts. He's been saying the the Lightning will trade him for years.

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Old
05-22-2009, 04:12 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigKing View Post
THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY HOLES!!! THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!

Look, these guys everyone is upset about losing just finished 5th worst, a giant leap from being tied for worst. Hickey or Voinov can come in next year, Voinov IMO, and be hard pressed to put up worse numbers than Johnson.

DL gathered all of these guys so he can swing a big deal, much like DW did with DL's guys in obtaining Thornton. He did not get all of these guys to hold on to all of them. All of these defensemen have been drafted because one or two of them are to be used to fill a need other than the blueline because, quite frankly, I think DL has got that covered.

Anyways, LA could just trade these guys to MTL right away and then they could ship them to TB for Lecavalier. Why you would think/want that to happen as a Kings fan is beyond me.
I don't want it to happen (due to the contract alone)...but I also wouldn't put it past Deano...and that's where the weird feeling came in...

Besides...I think we're all right with what we have on the current roster with some minor exceptions... We just need a little tinkering on the wings...which I believe can be done via free agency...so long as we don't get our own UFAs (Army excluded) back... If we can get rid of Preissing's contract...that's even more of a bonus...

The worst thing is that we need major help on the left side...and I don't see any viable way to fill this hole without trading JMFJ...hopefully OUT of the conference so we don't see him more than once or twice a year... This distraction currently going on isn't helping things either and I pray it doesn't put his value down even further...

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05-22-2009, 04:14 PM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBLightningFan View Post
Vinny has had a done deal with a lot of teams now... I'll believe one of them when it happens.
Ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 504Heater View Post
People assume Jack Johnson has trade value - but who would want him, his father and their attitudes?

Tampa Bay might be dumb enough to make him the centerpiece, but they'll be advised against it by pretty much everybody.
Agree completely. Why don't we, TB, want Quincey? He's young enough to be around a long time but also much more proven and offensively talented than JJ. So Quincey, 5th overall and a certain forward or two, Stoll and x prospect, for Vinny would be fair

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Old
05-22-2009, 04:18 PM
  #135
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Strachan is as reliable as a Ford Pinto and honest as the car salesman that wants to sell you the pinto.

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05-22-2009, 04:27 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 504Heater View Post
People assume Jack Johnson has trade value - but who would want him, his father and their attitudes?

Tampa Bay might be dumb enough to make him the centerpiece, but they'll be advised against it by pretty much everybody.

this i agree with 100%

LA fans are making JJ the center of the trade and he has done nothing near what he has been predicted to do and all reports are there are now troubles in LA.

He is getting a rep for this stuff.

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Old
05-22-2009, 04:32 PM
  #137
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I'm astounded at how many Kings fans DON'T want Vinny.

If things had gone "according to plan" in Tampa last season, this wouldn't even be a conversation because Vinny would be untouchable. How many guys can you build a franchise around that can do it all? There are just a handful of those guys, and NONE of them are even possibly available... except Vinny, and it's probably because of this past season and Tampa's wacky ownership.

In terms of real dollar salary, AEG won't even blink at the 10M/yr number after they run projections and find out that they'll more than cover that with ticket sales, merchandising, and brand value. As far as cap hit, come on, if he isn't one player you give a 7.7M/yr long-term contract to, then who is?

It's time to translate some of our collected "assets" into on-ice success.

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Old
05-22-2009, 04:39 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaWrista View Post
Agree completely. Why don't we, TB, want Quincey? He's young enough to be around a long time but also much more proven and offensively talented than JJ. So Quincey, 5th overall and a certain forward or two, Stoll and x prospect, for Vinny would be fair
Seriously?

To Tampa:
5th overall
Quincey
Stoll
Boyle
Purcell/Voynov

I'd be happily all over that like a fly on *****.

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Old
05-22-2009, 04:40 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by 8BostonRocker24 View Post
Mark Recchi put up 75 at the age of 35, 64 at the age of 37, 68 as a 38 year old, and 61 as a 40 year old...
Good Lord, I expected more from you. For every Recchi there are 10 others who don't and Recchi is not paid $10 a season. Was this really necessary ?

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Old
05-22-2009, 04:44 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Good Lord, I expected more from you. For every Recchi there are 10 others who don't and Recchi is not paid $10 a season. Was this really necessary ?
Really? Name me 10 guys who have multiple 90+ point seasons that failed to put up over 60 points in their 30's.

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Old
05-22-2009, 04:47 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
Good Lord, I expected more from you. For every Recchi there are 10 others who don't and Recchi is not paid $10 a season. Was this really necessary ?
Who is paid 10 dollars a season?

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Old
05-22-2009, 04:49 PM
  #142
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I think Vinny will be traded before July 1.

I just don't know where.

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Old
05-22-2009, 04:52 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch67 View Post
Strachan is as reliable as a Ford Pinto and honest as the car salesman that wants to sell you the pinto.
Only the Pintos were reliable outside of the bolts that'd puncture the gas tank on impact.

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Old
05-22-2009, 04:59 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
But that ignores the point I stated: you build around a "core player" to whom you've just recently handed a mega-year, mega-money contract. Changing, based on one season, as you suggest they just may have, is not a plan. It'd reactionary and poor management.

Ancillary moves, of course. Your core player, just in his prime? Fantasyleaguitis. And you do not move VL to open up opportunities to acquire ancillary players (read: interchangeable, support types).

Now, of course, I recognize we are having this friendly discussion on HF, where it's casually accepted that you move a proven NHL star "to make room for" the next 18 year old great. But let's talk real world.

Of course, the Lightning have not moved VL, so I'm getting ahead of myself.
i completely hear ya... i'm just sayin' that something like this isn't unheard of. and were i Tampa, i'd be approaching it from a certain direction with a plan in mind.

and after all, what we Kings fans who support a move like this feel will do for a player like Kopitar, the same rings true for Steven Stamkos.

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05-22-2009, 05:04 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 504Heater View Post
People assume Jack Johnson has trade value - but who would want him, his father and their attitudes?

Tampa Bay might be dumb enough to make him the centerpiece, but they'll be advised against it by pretty much everybody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
this i agree with 100%

LA fans are making JJ the center of the trade and he has done nothing near what he has been predicted to do and all reports are there are now troubles in LA.

He is getting a rep for this stuff.
very good point. but it only appears that it has insofar been only his father, and that alone is only really indicative of the fact that Jack is still a little immature.

he's got a good head on his shoulders and a winning heart... everything is just still a little bit stuck in a Fantasyland.

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Old
05-22-2009, 05:05 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by The Vagabond View Post
few points... Brown pts wise is on the same level as Stoll.. Differnce is Brown is grittier and more of a goal scorere. Brown pts in the nhl have been 28-46-60-53. Vinny's over the sametime has been 75-108-92-67.

There is a big difference between Stall and Brown that is not in the points. To me that would be the deal breaker. Bolts are not stupid enough to take a guy who could walk away after the next season or a guy they might have to pay upwards of 6million and that is what Frolov is. Frolov for me is a none starter for this deal. Vinny in signed for 10 years or whatever and Frolov is gone aftert thios next season. So the bolts need a forward going back who can score some goals--that is brown.

Vinny has had 1 bad season and I think that is no small part to what is going on in TB, Vinny goal total have been 35-52-40-29.

Vinny is a goto guy and they do not grow on trees and it costs to get them and the BOLTS will not just give him away.

As for my comment about Stoll and his leadership, there is no speculatuion here---He lived in Mact's dog house the last year in edmonton and was called out not just by mact, but his fellow players for not doing everything they can.

bottom line is

Johnson, Frolov, Stoll and a pick wont get it done. The deal wont be built around Frolov, he is a UFA after the next season and is looking for a huge bump in pay and that is one of the reasons why the bolts are looking to trade Vinny.

I think the deal, if it is close to being done, will look like

Johnson, Brown and a pick
I actually think that LA turns this down if that pick is their 5th. I could see them doing it if it was a 2010 1st though

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05-22-2009, 05:09 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MistaWrista View Post
Ditto.



Agree completely. Why don't we, TB, want Quincey? He's young enough to be around a long time but also much more proven and offensively talented than JJ. So Quincey, 5th overall and a certain forward or two, Stoll and x prospect, for Vinny would be fair
Johnson has more value than Quincey even after Quincey's solid season. His low contract is valuable but to have a guy picked up off of waivers as the centerpiece along with a draft pick well, I think that would be amazing asset management on Lombardi's part.

I'm pretty sure he'd rather keep Johnson over Quincey because I can't see Jack not being as good as Quincey in the future.

TB: Quincey (waiver wire), #5 overall (draft pick), Stoll (Visnovsky trade), Moller (2nd round pick)

LA: Lecavalier

Basically, Lombardi would be parlaying a free waiver pick-up, the reward for another crappy season, Visnovsky and a 2nd round pick for Vincent Lecavalier and Matt Greene while maintaining all of his blue-chip defense corp.

I think he would be stoked on that all day long. If you need another prospect on top of that, you'd be looking at a Boyle/Purcell/Martinez...a 1st round reach by Taylor, a UFA signing and a 4th round pick I believe.

Lombardi still loves it.

I can't imagine TB not asking for Johnson. I could see them ask for both Quincey and Johnson. That could seriously impact the defense for LA next season so I'm not sure if DL would move on that; if those two are included then you can forget about Moller and the extra prospect as it would be more like Johnson/Quincey/#5...I'm hesitant to throw in Stoll as those are three very nice pieces so maybe the extra prospect is included in Stoll's place.

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Old
05-22-2009, 05:10 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Chayos View Post
I actually think that LA turns this down if that pick is their 5th. I could see them doing it if it was a 2010 1st though
As i said--I think change the pick from 09 to 10 mgiht be a deal the kings wouild and here is a second offer

JJ, Brown and the 2010 pick--enless if it top 5 and the bolts would get the 2010 LA first with a second as well--with the Bolts sending a 3rd back to the Kings

JJ+Brown and 2009 first is a bit steep when you realize it is 5th over all

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05-22-2009, 05:12 PM
  #149
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Guys.

dean LOVES kyle quincey. Its an affair that started before he became a King.

he will move JJ before he moves KQ.

that's all Im saying.

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Old
05-22-2009, 05:15 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by ukyo View Post
I'm astounded at how many Kings fans DON'T want Vinny.

If things had gone "according to plan" in Tampa last season, this wouldn't even be a conversation because Vinny would be untouchable. How many guys can you build a franchise around that can do it all? There are just a handful of those guys, and NONE of them are even possibly available... except Vinny, and it's probably because of this past season and Tampa's wacky ownership.

In terms of real dollar salary, AEG won't even blink at the 10M/yr number after they run projections and find out that they'll more than cover that with ticket sales, merchandising, and brand value. As far as cap hit, come on, if he isn't one player you give a 7.7M/yr long-term contract to, then who is?

It's time to translate some of our collected "assets" into on-ice success.
Kings fans are content to miss the playoffs again I guess.

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