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Information needed about cap hits

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Old
06-03-2009, 12:39 PM
  #1
x-bob
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Information needed about cap hits

I have been looking all over the internet for the actual cap hits for two players (Luke Schenn and Zach Bogosian) but I keep on finding multiple different numbers and I don't know which is the right cap hit. Here is what I have found:

Zach Bogosian:

3.375 million:
* http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=ATL



2.725 million:
* http://nhlnumbers.com/overview.php?team=ATL&season=0809
* http://www.thefourthperiod.com/Atlanta.html
* http://the6thsens.blogspot.com/2008/...igle-rule.html


Luke Schenn:

1.25 million:
* http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.p...OR&season=0809
* http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/article/513729
Quote:
That contract was signed yesterday, and will see Schenn earn $850,000 (all figures U.S.) in his first three years, with bonuses that could send his salary up to $1.25 million per season.
2.975 million:
* http://www.hockeybuzz.com/cap-central/team.php?team=TOR

* 2.225 million:
http://the6thsens.blogspot.com/2008/...igle-rule.html
* http://www.tmlfans.ca/leafs-news/ros...ap-commitments


If anyone can help it will bre greatly appreciated!

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Old
06-03-2009, 12:47 PM
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HabsAtak
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The 850k would be their base salary before bonuses. Last year the base + bonuses had to be counted against the CAP. So, some sites put this at the total of the CAP hit without figuring in what exactly or approximately they got bonuses for. For as close to accuracy as possible I would go with NHL Numbers. They figure in the days played, LTIR, suspensions, bonuses (esitmates) into the CAP hit.

This year though just the average salary before bonuses counts against the CAP. The bonuses, if earned, are put into what is called a bonus cushion (7.5% max of the Salary CAP) this can be paid in the current year to the players or carried over to next year or split between the years. The problem with this is if they do carry it over, it essentially lowers the amount of money they have to work with next year. So, the GM's have to be creative and not only plan for the CAP this year but in the years that follow.

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06-03-2009, 01:18 PM
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I would trust the hockeybuzz numbers - they actually come from Irish Blues' site nhlscap.com. IB has access to the official league numbers.

IB had a deal where he was letting hockeybuzz host his data. I beleive that that deal has/will soon expire and he is working on unveiling a new and improved site sometime this offseason.

Unfortunately, his detailed spreadsheets do not seem to be currently available on his site.

His numbers on the HBuzz site:

Bogosian - $875,000 salary and $3,375,000 cap hit (thru '10-'11)
Schenn - $875,000 salary and $2,975,000 cap hit (thru '10-'11)

The difference between salary and cap hit is due to Perfromance Bonuses in their ELS contracts. All potential bonuses (earned or not) are counted in a players cap hit.

Unfortunately IB seems to have taken a moratorium from posting here - but you can probably PM him or email him through nhlscap.com for more info.

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06-03-2009, 01:25 PM
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The simple answer is the sites disagree on how much $ those players have in bonus clauses. As these figures usually are not publicized it's not surprising. I would suspect the largest figures are the most accurate as they're inline with what other high draft picks have received. Also, IB (NHLscap/Hockeybuzz) supposedly has access to the actual bonus figures from an official source.


Minor clarification: players salary+bonuses always count against the cap. If a bonus becomes unattainable during the season the team is issued a refund against their team payroll for cap calculation purposes. When the bonus cushion is in effect (it isn't this season) teams are allowed to exceed the cap during the season by up to 7.5% so long as that excess is solely due to bonus clauses. Likewise, at the end of the season if the team is still over the cap (7.5% limit) due to bonuses the excess will be carried over to the team's cap for the next season.

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06-03-2009, 01:58 PM
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HabsAtak
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It is true that the bonus cushion is not in effect yet. However, the NHLPA has until September 15, 2009 to extend the CBA for 2 more seasons. I highly doubt they are not going to extend it or we would be hearing all kinds of rumblings of a walkout or lockout. So, for all intended purposed the bonus cushion is in effect for the 2009-2010 season.

Also, the players can extend the CBA one more season next year to 2011-2012. Therefore, the bonus cushion would be in effect next season too.

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06-03-2009, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takabru View Post
It is true that the bonus cushion is not in effect yet. However, the NHLPA has until September 15, 2009 to extend the CBA for 2 more seasons. I highly doubt they are not going to extend it or we would be hearing all kinds of rumblings of a walkout or lockout. So, for all intended purposed the bonus cushion is in effect for the 2009-2010 season.

Also, the players can extend the CBA one more season next year to 2011-2012. Therefore, the bonus cushion would be in effect next season too.
Actually - the deadline to exercise the early termination of the CBA has passed. The NHLPA had to exercise it's option 120 days prior to Sept 15 in order to terminate the CBA at that date.

It is uncertain if the Performance Bonus Cushion will be in effect in '10-'11. It depends on if and when the NHLPA exercises it's option to extend - the deadline is 120 days prior to Sept 15, 2011. If the NHLPA officially exercises its option before the start of the '10-'11 season, then the cushion would probably be in effect that season (but would not be in '11-'12).

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06-03-2009, 04:32 PM
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x-bob
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So you guys would say that the numbers on NHLscap/Hockeybuzz are the right amounts if I udnerstand correctly.

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06-03-2009, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-bob View Post
So you guys would say that the numbers on NHLscap/Hockeybuzz are the right amounts if I udnerstand correctly.
That would certainly be my guess as well.

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06-03-2009, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-bob View Post
So you guys would say that the numbers on NHLscap/Hockeybuzz are the right amounts if I udnerstand correctly.
They're much more likely to be correct than the other links you posted IMO,

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06-03-2009, 09:11 PM
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Re the bonus cushion - perhaps someone can clarify for me - if a player over the age of 35 signs a 1-year deal with a base salary and performance bonuses, as allowed under the CBA, do those bonuses count towards the cap? I had read somewhere they don't for the 35+ players, but I did some more research today and I found that the bonuses still count against the cap, but they can be rolled forward to go against the following year's cap (the Peformance Bonus cushion). However, the following site states the Performance Bonus Cushion was eliminated this past season. Do I just have out-dated info?

http://www.nhlscap.com/cap_faq.htm

When teams calculate how much room they have under the cap to add players, any potential bonuses that a player can earn must be included in the player's cap count. For 2005-06 through 2007-08, teams could exceed the Upper Limit by up to 7.5% [the "Performance Bonus Cushion"] in order to pay such bonuses (for 2007-08, teams could effectively have an Upper Limit of $54,072,500) with the provision that any team doing this would have its Upper Limit reduced for the following season by the amount it exceeds the current year's Upper Limit. If the bonus is not paid, no penalty is imposed. [As mentioned above, the Performance Bonus Cushion is not available in 2008-09.] As the season progresses, if a player becomes ineligible for a bonus it will come off the player's cap count and that amount will become available to the team - but only for that season.

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06-03-2009, 09:21 PM
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HabsAtak
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The bonuses are always counted towards the cap in each year of the CBA. The bonus cushion comes into play when there are more years in the CBA beyond the current year. Like last year was a final year of the CBA and it was up to the players, 120 days before September 15, 2009 to extend the CBA 2 more years. Therefore, in 2008-2009 the full salary + bonuses was counted against the cap no matter what. There was no bonus cushion last season.

This season there will be a bonus cushion and 120 days before September 15, 2010 the players can extend the CBA 1 more year. Therefore next season the full amount of the salary + bonuses will count against the CAP unless the CBA is extended to 2011-2012.

As for the 35+ players, their bonuses work the same as the ELC bonuses. There is only 1 thing though, the contracts for 35+ players can only be 1 year if they are to include bonuses. Also, if the player retires or is waived and he signed the contract after his 35th birthday then his whole salary + bonuses counts towards the CAP.

Not sure that clears it up but I gave it a shot

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06-03-2009, 09:56 PM
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LateNightOilerFan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takabru View Post
The bonuses are always counted towards the cap in each year of the CBA. The bonus cushion comes into play when there are more years in the CBA beyond the current year. Like last year was a final year of the CBA and it was up to the players, 120 days before September 15, 2009 to extend the CBA 2 more years. Therefore, in 2008-2009 the full salary + bonuses was counted against the cap no matter what. There was no bonus cushion last season.

This season there will be a bonus cushion and 120 days before September 15, 2010 the players can extend the CBA 1 more year. Therefore next season the full amount of the salary + bonuses will count against the CAP unless the CBA is extended to 2011-2012.

As for the 35+ players, their bonuses work the same as the ELC bonuses. There is only 1 thing though, the contracts for 35+ players can only be 1 year if they are to include bonuses. Also, if the player retires or is waived and he signed the contract after his 35th birthday then his whole salary + bonuses counts towards the CAP.

Not sure that clears it up but I gave it a shot
That's great, thanks! I never even considered the term of the CBA but it makes sense the way you've explained it.

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