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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

Balsillie/Phoenix part IV

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05-25-2009, 11:18 PM
  #251
Jake16
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Originally Posted by thomand52 View Post
The owners will make the decision based on what is best for their businesses, financially. I suspect that it won't be based on their personal feelings towards Balsillie , it will be a matter of dollars and cents. Many of the teams that are rumoured to be in trouble will probably support JB as his offer increases the value of their franchises. Those who are doing well will also likely support him because another strong partner will keep revenue higher and allow the cap to remain up. For teams like Edmonton, Calgary and others who can afford to spend to the cap and fans demand that they do, would like not seeing it decrease.
The crucial thing to remember is that most of the owners are successful business people and will make this decision by weighing the pros and cons financially, not based on how JB has made them feel.
Since I haven't done a formal survey of the 30 teams, but TSN apparently has, I'll trust Dreger on this point when he reports JB doesn't have close to the votes needed.

"The National Hockey League remains confident it will foil Jim Balsillie's attempt to move the Phoenix Coyotes to Hamilton.

The league believes an Arizona Bankruptcy court will deny relocation following arguments on June 22nd and is fully prepared to continue to operate the Coyotes in Phoenix until a suitable owner is found.

The support from other NHL teams to keep Balsillie out remains strong as most contacted by TSN stand strong in their belief league rules and bylaws governing club sales and relocation must be adhered to."

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/darren_dreger/?id=279569


Last edited by Jake16: 05-25-2009 at 11:35 PM.
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05-25-2009, 11:46 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Jake16 View Post
Moyes currently doesn't even have control of his team. Highly questionable as to whether he even has standing to even file such a petition.
Neither does the NHL at this point. The question of who has the right to operate the team will be decided tomorrow in court if the two sides have not come to an agreement yet.

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05-26-2009, 12:29 AM
  #253
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Neither does the NHL at this point. The question of who has the right to operate the team will be decided tomorrow in court if the two sides have not come to an agreement yet.
What a complete and utter embarrassment. A billionaire has offered to step in and save a dying, financial disaster of a franchise, and Bettman's just too damn stubborn to see past his own ego and realize it's for the best.

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05-26-2009, 12:41 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
What a complete and utter embarrassment. A billionaire has offered to step in and save a dying, financial disaster of a franchise, and Bettman's just too damn stubborn to see past his own ego and realize it's for the best.
It is not just Bettman's doing and just because you want a team in Hamilton does not mean this specific course of action is in any way the best thing for the NHL.

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05-26-2009, 12:49 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by thomand52 View Post
The owners will make the decision based on what is best for their businesses, financially. I suspect that it won't be based on their personal feelings towards Balsillie , it will be a matter of dollars and cents. Many of the teams that are rumoured to be in trouble will probably support JB as his offer increases the value of their franchises. Those who are doing well will also likely support him because another strong partner will keep revenue higher and allow the cap to remain up. For teams like Edmonton, Calgary and others who can afford to spend to the cap and fans demand that they do, would like not seeing it decrease.
The crucial thing to remember is that most of the owners are successful business people and will make this decision by weighing the pros and cons financially, not based on how JB has made them feel.
I thought the myth that what someone pays for a certain franchise will influence the price of other franchises has been debunked on this site? If the Coyotes sell for 100, 200 or 300 million will actually have very little impact on the price of other franchises. Different circumstances affect different teams and just because Balsillie wants to spend 212 million on a franchise does not mean other billionaires will automatically have to spend more to purchase a team.

Also, may I be so bold as to disagree that owners want the salary cap to rise. Sure teams like Calgary and Edmonton spend to the salary cap due to pressure of the fans but I am certain that they would like to spend less if they could. Why would any team want to spend even more money on player's contracts? It is not like the Oilers and Flames are raking in tens of millions in profits that they would have no qualms about spending 5 or 10 more on player's salaries.

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05-26-2009, 01:05 AM
  #256
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To clarify a few things....

After the 5/19 hearing, Balsillie said he would formally put in a ownership request of the Phoenix franchise *and* a request to relocate to Southern Ontario/Hamilton.

So, prior to that hearing, he had nothing (officially) in the works WRT requesting the NHL Board of Governors to approve him as an owner of the NHL Phoenix franchise nor requesting the BoG for approval of relocation.

(I then recall reading that Bettman or Daly said they would expedite such requests. But I've seen nothing further.)

So recent (over the long holiday weekend) articles indicate that Balsillie has at least submitted the paperwork for ownership to the NHL BoG.

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05-26-2009, 01:09 AM
  #257
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It is not just Bettman's doing and just because you want a team in Hamilton does not mean this specific course of action is in any way the best thing for the NHL.
I could care less if they end up in Hamilton; they're more than welcome to try again in Winnipeg, you can bet they'd be more profitable there in the near future than they've ever been in Phoenix.

Tell me why moving the team out of a market where it CLEARLY is not thriving is not the best thing for the NHL. I realize Bettman, and I'm sure many of his supporters, are just convinced that they can, in fact, get hockey to become popular in Phoenix. And hey, good for him, he's trying to grow his game, make it popular all over the country.

But how long is too long? They've been there for what, 13 years, without a single year-end profit? Balsillie is offering to drive up the value of every hockey team in the league. If a bankrupt hockey team from the desert is worth $212 million, what does that make the Leafs or Canadiens? He's got deep pockets and is feeling generous. Why not see how he does? We've tried Gary's method, so far it's flopped, now give Balsillie a shot. It's his third try, and you know he's not going to give up til he gets a team.

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05-26-2009, 01:45 AM
  #258
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He's not applying for relocation, moyes is and ballisie is applying for ownership.
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Originally Posted by Jake16 View Post
If its Moyes' own petition to relocate the team he "owns," it will have more holes in it than a piece of swiss cheese.
Not to mention the fact that Moyes' ownership Consent Agreement with the NHL signed in 2006 precluded him from moving the team for seven years.

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05-26-2009, 07:42 AM
  #259
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Bettman seems to be responsible for everything in the NHL.
The schedule, the tv deals, the rules, the officiating, the relocation of teams, the scrutiny of potential owners, collective bargaining, etc etc.
Plus still has time do a radio show, this guy is a tireless worker.
Give the man a raise already.

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05-26-2009, 09:20 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Jake16 View Post
Since I haven't done a formal survey of the 30 teams, but TSN apparently has, I'll trust Dreger on this point when he reports JB doesn't have close to the votes needed.

"The National Hockey League remains confident it will foil Jim Balsillie's attempt to move the Phoenix Coyotes to Hamilton.

The league believes an Arizona Bankruptcy court will deny relocation following arguments on June 22nd and is fully prepared to continue to operate the Coyotes in Phoenix until a suitable owner is found.

The support from other NHL teams to keep Balsillie out remains strong as most contacted by TSN stand strong in their belief league rules and bylaws governing club sales and relocation must be adhered to."

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/darren_dreger/?id=279569
The problem with this particular article is that it is full of "weasel" words.

He polled "some" teams. "Most" said no.

Well, who did he poll? How many? How many refused to give any answer? What were the actual results?

So while that information isn't useless, it isn't a slam dunk either way. And just by using the word "most" implies that their is at least 1 owner with Balsille.

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05-26-2009, 09:26 AM
  #261
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Woman wants 10,000 to attend Hamilton Coyotes rally

http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/572002

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05-26-2009, 10:07 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Egil View Post
The problem with this particular article is that it is full of "weasel" words.
This isn't worth getting into with you, but I've never really heard Darren Dreger referred to as a "weasel" journalist or someone with an agenda to try to build a case for a biased point of view. (There are plenty of those.) My perception of Dreger is, that like Bob McKenzie, he's pretty much a straight shooter who does his homework, sticks to the facts and tries to avoid the sensationalism.

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05-26-2009, 10:08 AM
  #263
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Why would he pay 120 million dollars for improvements on Copps when the plan is for the city to own the arena?
Own or operate?

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05-26-2009, 10:10 AM
  #264
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Why would he pay 120 million dollars for improvements on Copps when the plan is for the city to own the arena?
Well that philosophy worked out well in Glendale didn't it?

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05-26-2009, 10:21 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Jake16 View Post
This isn't worth getting into with you, but I've never really heard Darren Dreger referred to as a "weasel" journalist or someone with an agenda to try to build a case for a biased point of view. (There are plenty of those.) My perception of Dreger is, that like Bob McKenzie, he's pretty much a straight shooter who does his homework, sticks to the facts and tries to avoid the sensationalism.
I don't think he is being deliberately biased or anything, merely that his information is non-precise and of undetermined quality. It is also the best information we have on the matter, but it is still sorely lacking. My use of the term "weasel" words wasn't directed at Dreger per say (who quite possibly had to guarantee he wouldn't produce numbers to get his sources to talk), but merely the best way to describe the language that he used.

For example, there are often GM survey's of various things. In those surveys, we get actual vote totals, along with the number of voters (normally around 25 of the 30 participate). This is in stark contrast to the information we got on the voting intentions of the BoG on Balsille.

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05-26-2009, 10:46 AM
  #266
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Why would Balsillie even attempt this anti-trust strategy if he thought he had ANY chance at all of getting approval to move the team from the BoG?

Right now he can say "this was my only way of getting the team to Hamilton", but if that isnt' true we have to start looking at other incentives to attempt this bankruptcy backdoor. Did he just want to avoid paying territorial fees? Did he really think the judge was going to give him Toronto's TV deal somehow? He's just really impatient and didn't want to risk a relocation rejection? Either way you slice it he looks bad.

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05-26-2009, 11:04 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Jesus View Post
Also, may I be so bold as to disagree that owners want the salary cap to rise. Sure teams like Calgary and Edmonton spend to the salary cap due to pressure of the fans but I am certain that they would like to spend less if they could. Why would any team want to spend even more money on player's contracts? It is not like the Oilers and Flames are raking in tens of millions in profits that they would have no qualms about spending 5 or 10 more on player's salaries.
They don't want to but given that they already have a great deal of money already committed to players salaries and the cap will most likely be decreasing next year, certain teams need revenues to stay high to be able to field a competitive team.

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05-26-2009, 11:50 AM
  #268
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http://espn.go.com/chicago/story?id=4204252

(Article on Reinsdorf's involvement in NBA, etc. And at the bottom of the article....)

Quote:
Reinsdorf also was asked about his reported interest in being part of a group that will buy the NHL's Phoenix Coyotes, but he said pending litigation precluded him from commenting.

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05-26-2009, 11:53 AM
  #269
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http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/139616

Phoenix pundit.....
Quote:
My guess: NHL commissioner Gary Bettman, who is as stubborn as he is misguided, will quash any relocation attempt by Canadian billionaire Jim Balsillie with a promise that Balsillie will get an expansion franchise in Ontario at some point. In turn, the Coyotes will be put up for auction to the highest bidder.

That won’t please creditors – no group will come close to matching Balsillie’s $212 million offer – but Glendale will keep the Coyotes, the NHL will open the front door for Balsillie, and Bettman can brag that he solved the crisis without losing one of the largest television markets in the U.S.

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05-26-2009, 11:55 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by mnwildfan79 View Post
Why would Balsillie even attempt this anti-trust strategy if he thought he had ANY chance at all of getting approval to move the team from the BoG?

Right now he can say "this was my only way of getting the team to Hamilton", but if that isnt' true we have to start looking at other incentives to attempt this bankruptcy backdoor. Did he just want to avoid paying territorial fees? Did he really think the judge was going to give him Toronto's TV deal somehow? He's just really impatient and didn't want to risk a relocation rejection? Either way you slice it he looks bad.
Sigh, why are so many people not getting what the BoG applications are about?

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05-26-2009, 12:01 PM
  #271
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http://www.thestar.com/article/640278

Update from Toronto...
Quote:
The league has before it the application by the billionaire co-founder of Research In Motion to become an owner. Next week, it will receive an application from Moyes to officially move the team to Hamilton.

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly declined to comment on Balsillie's application, but confirmed the NHL will continue to pay the Coyotes' bills until the team is sold as part of a mediation agreement.
Quote:
"The control issue is not resolved," Daly said in an email. "But the parties are trying to agree on a process to jointly operate the club pending the sale."

A hearing tomorrow will shed light on some matters, including the process to sell the team and the city of Glendale's lawsuit to force the team to stay at the Jobing.com Arena for another 26 years.
Quote:
Typically, new owners require a three-quarters vote from the board of directors to be approved. And all proposed ownership transactions must be approved. In this bankruptcy case, however, the board of governors may be asked to approve multiple bidders before court determines which has the best offer.

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05-26-2009, 12:49 PM
  #272
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Sigh, why are so many people not getting what the BoG applications are about?
Care to explain what I don't get?

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05-26-2009, 12:58 PM
  #273
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Care to explain what I don't get?
He needs to apply to the BoG and be declined to even have a chance to file an anti-trust suit. He doesn't think he has a chance to be approved.

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05-26-2009, 01:12 PM
  #274
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He needs to apply to the BoG and be declined to even have a chance to file an anti-trust suit. He doesn't think he has a chance to be approved.
Actually, that is incorrect.

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05-26-2009, 01:14 PM
  #275
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One of the largest tv markets in the US,7500 viewers in a city of 5m is a large audience,only in Bettman`s dreams.

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