HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Dreger: Redden, Staal, Dubinsky for Kaberle, Stralman, Leafs 1st

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-24-2009, 01:10 PM
  #76
grabo84
Registered User
 
grabo84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Atlantic Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace88 View Post
Then again, he's a total moron so maybe he does.
Sather's pretty sharp with trades, for the most part, and he's proven to be a great GM. For some reason, he seems to have trouble with free agent signings though. I hope his wife doesn't let him go anywhere near an auction once he retires.

grabo84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:10 PM
  #77
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace88 View Post
KAberle = Staal more or less
Stralman = Del Zotto
Dubinsky would not get more than a 2nd round pick in a trade.

not to mention we already have like 3 2nd-line centres so Dubinsky isn't worth that much to us. There's no way you can argue that Del Z is better than Stralman, so the deciding factor is Staal's age vs Kaberle's age. However as has been bandied about way too much, Kabs is on a good contract and can help you win now, which you need, so i dont see a problem with this trade. Sather might not budge though if Redden isn't involved. Then again, he's a total moron so maybe he does.
We couldn't afford to take on Kaberle's salary without moving one of our big contracts.

I'll take Staal for the next decade over Kaberle for the next 2 years.

Whatever value you put on the trade, it makes no sense for the Rangers to trade two of their best young players for 2 years of Kaberle, a redundant player in Stralman (we have Del Zotto, Sanguinetti and Gilroy) and the 7th overall pick, which may or may not end up being a good player.

It's funny how everyone is assuming that the 7th overall will be an elite player. Sather chose Jessiman 12th overall in 2003 and we all know how that turned out. Zherdev was 4th overall and I don't think anyone would call him elite at this point in his career.

As deep as this draft is, there are no guarantees as to how good any player will be.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:11 PM
  #78
AK
Registered User
 
AK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 15,538
vCash: 500
7th > Staal
Kaberle >> Dubinsky

And Redden has negative value. Burke would be NUTS to do this.

AK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:12 PM
  #79
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hntrmn View Post
Counter Offer:
To New York Rangers: Tomas Kaberle, Matt Stajan, Jiri Tlusty
To Toronto: Marc Staal, Brandon Dubinsky, Dale Weise, 2nd 2010.

Kaberle=Marc Staal <---- Kaberle is a lot better right now, but Staal has much more upside.

Jiri Tlusty=Dubinsky <---- Tlusty lit it up in the AHL this year. He has major potential... but might not reach it. DUbinsky will likely be a solid 2nd line centerman.

Stajan=Weise and 2nd 2010 <---- Stajan is extremely underrated, and would be a great addition behind Gomez and Drury. He can compete for 1st/2nd line minutes, and would do a good job filling the 1st/2nd line roles if Drury or Gomez get injured.

Thoughts?
Salary Cap

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:17 PM
  #80
bobermay
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Barrie/UofGuelph
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,949
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Salary Cap
True True. My Bad. Just dump Redden in the AHL!

bobermay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:18 PM
  #81
Jeffler
Shut Up Jeffler
 
Jeffler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North York
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,695
vCash: 500
This is AWFUL.

Redden, though he is a decent player still, is clearly a cap dump at 6.5M. Dubinsky is a redundancy on the Leafs roster, as we have Grabovski, Stajan, Bozak, Mitchell, and more centres. Only way a centre becomes a big part of a package to the Leafs is if he's a clear cut #1. The only good thing in the package is Marc Staal, and he's not

Kaberle's value has seemed to plummet on HF because age is the only thing you guys look at. He's still a great defender on a steal of a contract. Stralman, while nowhere near the expectations of Leafs fans, has a lot of potential. And 7th overall is arguably the most valuable part of the package.

To me, it seems like the reason so many people are saying Toronto takes this and runs is because you're skick of proposals on here. Do note that Leafs proposals are largely posted by idiots and not reflective of the entire fanbase.

So, how do I think you make this trade work?

Either turn Redden into Gomez and a mid range prospect, or turn 7th overall into, at best, the Rangers 2nd from the Antropov deal.

Jeffler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:40 PM
  #82
Anksun
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Montreal
Posts: 3,565
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Anksun
Let me start by saying i hate the leafs to no end.

But this is not a steal for them by any mean.


In todays market, Dubinsky might very well be the kind of value you would have to GIVE just to dump Redden contract. Give NY Stralman for both if you wish (i dont consider him to be all that great either anyways).

And there is what is remaining: Kaberle + 7th pick for Staal.

Not bad at all for the Rangers, that's for sure.

Anksun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:41 PM
  #83
drofnats
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto
Posts: 310
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
An unknown player that has never played in the NHL is equal to a 22 yo shutdown dman? If the Rangers offered Staal for Kaberle straight up the leafs would take it and run.
That is a valid point about unknown potential vs proven player, but I don't think it's as far off as you think... I mean Tavares, Hedman and Duchene have never played in the NHL either, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to swing a deal straightup for any of them. So where do you see his trade value sliding in between Kane, MPS, Cowen and Schenn which are the consensus top 7 in most mock drafts?

I don't think anybody is trying to slight Staal, but it's more of a reflection of how good this draft is expected to be.

drofnats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:42 PM
  #84
Thirty One
portnor, pls
 
Thirty One's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Victoria, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,688
vCash: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
7th > Staal
yeah, ok...

this is a ridiculous trade.

Thirty One is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:43 PM
  #85
mikeo1
Registered User
 
mikeo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,497
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
thanks.

leafs fans are homers to a ridiculous degree.
In this case? No.

Staal is the best reason for the Leafs to do this, but there is likely going to be a player available at #7 this year that plays a very similar type of game and has the same type of potential in Cowen.

Kaberle is undoubtedly better than Redden, and doesn't come with the outrageous contract. This is the worst part of the deal. I'd rather we keep Kaberle and resign him in two years.

Stralman may not be high on Burke's list, but a lot of Leaf fans still think he'll be a young top 4 defenceman, something this team needs. We already have a glut of young "potential" 2nd-3rd line defenceman, so I don't see any need for Dubinsky. This team lacks forwards who can play at a top level, not guys who'll play a backup or character role.

Now maybe Burke is thinking something completely differently and knows something we dont, but I think its pretty reasonable for Leaf fans to think they are getting ripped off on this trade.

mikeo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:46 PM
  #86
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by drofnats View Post
That is a valid point about unknown potential vs proven player, but I don't think it's as far off as you think... I mean Tavares, Hedman and Duchene have never played in the NHL either, and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to swing a deal straightup for any of them. So where do you see his trade value sliding in between Kane, MPS, Cowen and Schenn which are the consensus top 7 in most mock drafts?

I don't think anybody is trying to slight Staal, but it's more of a reflection of how good this draft is expected to be.
I'm not so much arguing the value, just that I don't think it's a smart move for the Rangers. I'd rather trade bad contract for slightly less bad contract to get rid of Redden, rather than give up good young players. I realize we'd get some good young players back most likely, but I don't think it's worth the risk.

Too many Rangers fans are desperate for an elite forward. So desparate that they don't care what they give up to get that player. Their eyes get big when they see the 7th overall pick, but if that pick were to bust, this would go down as one of the worst trades in Ranger history. And that's saying something lol.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:56 PM
  #87
Tavaresmagicalplay*
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 19,306
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Apparently Dreger said this on TV. No link, sorry. Stolen from the Leafs board
1)Burke is not trading away high picks for players
2)Tomas Kaberle>Wade Redden
3)Now this is just me, I think Stralman has a higher ceiling than Dubinsky. Dubinsky is a good powerforward but he is really inconcistent. He was a great scorer the first 20 games or so but he was an absolute disaster the rest of the year. Stralman has great potential as a Mike Green type player.

Mac Staal obviously would be the centerpiece of this deal. The question is does Burke put that much value on Marc Staal that he would trade away a high draft pick in a deep draft, a great top pairing defenseman and a really talented young player and take on that much salary for a young player that hasn't proven himself as more than an absolute borderline second line player and of course Marc Staal. If he does than by all means pull the trigger. If you think Marc Staal is going to become a Seabrook type player do the deal. And is New york really that desperate to trade away Redden that they will deal one of their bright young stars? I've heard the talk that Zherdev is going to Russia I'm sure they have too. If they are it's a beautiful mess that Sather has gotten them into.

Tavaresmagicalplay* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:01 PM
  #88
smoneil
Registered User
 
smoneil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Rochester
Country: United States
Posts: 2,291
vCash: 500
I can see why Sather may be thinking this would work, but I hope he either sobers up or gets turned down.

Kaberle is good, but not nearly as good as Leaf fans make him out to be. He is definitely better than Redden, however, especially in light of Wade's contract.

Staal is MUCH more valuable than the 7th overall. Staal is not equal to Cowen. If anything, Cowen is equal to Sauer (great defender with some big injury question marks).

Dubinsky is also MUCH more valuable than Stralman. This part of the proposed trade baffles me the most. The Rangers don't need Stralman at all (DelZotto, Gilroy and Sanguinetti are already here) and the Leafs don't really need Dubinsky. That said, Dubi is more of an upgrade for the Leafs than Stralman is for the Rangers (and don't forget that Dubi played some wing with season).

IF this is a legit rumor, the only reason I can see Sather going for it is to make a play for Duschene. The 7th, Sanguinetti and the Ranger's 1st rounder might be enough to move up to #3 overall. That would give the Rangers two of the Brampton line to groom for the NHL, Anisimov could take over for Dubinsky, and Kaberle could take Staal's spot while Gilroy/DelZotto/Sauer round out Redden's spot.

Toronto would do it because Kaberle isn't worth what Leaf fans think he's worth (or he would have been traded long ago) and Staal and Dubi are MUCH MUCH better than the #7 and Stralman.

That said, I hope the Rangers show some patience here, because this whole trade reeks of Marc Savard and spare parts for Jamie Lundmark.

smoneil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:02 PM
  #89
IWD
...
 
IWD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Spain
Posts: 5,054
vCash: 500
I realize Ranger fans love Dubinsky and Staal, and with good reason, but Redden's contract actually causes their value to go down significantly. Not only that, but Dubinsky isn't even needed. He's good, but second-line centers are one of the few things that this team needs. That leaves Staal and Redden. So the Leafs their all-star puck-moving defenseman and his replacement, and throw in a 1st for good measure?

Ranger fans don't want it, and neither do Leaf fans. It's not going to happen, so I guess we're all happy.

IWD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:05 PM
  #90
cupcrazyman
In Shanny We Trust
 
cupcrazyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Parts Unknown
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golden Senator View Post
So basically:

To Toronto

Staal
Dubinsky
Redden

To New York

7th overall
Kaberle
Stralman

Why would Toronto do this?
they won't !!! Burke will keep his high 1st round pick & draft a player.

cupcrazyman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:09 PM
  #91
IWD
...
 
IWD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: Spain
Posts: 5,054
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
I can see why Sather may be thinking this would work, but I hope he either sobers up or gets turned down.

Kaberle is good, but not nearly as good as Leaf fans make him out to be. He is definitely better than Redden, however, especially in light of Wade's contract.

Staal is MUCH more valuable than the 7th overall. Staal is not equal to Cowen. If anything, Cowen is equal to Sauer (great defender with some big injury question marks).

Dubinsky is also MUCH more valuable than Stralman. This part of the proposed trade baffles me the most. The Rangers don't need Stralman at all (DelZotto, Gilroy and Sanguinetti are already here) and the Leafs don't really need Dubinsky. That said, Dubi is more of an upgrade for the Leafs than Stralman is for the Rangers (and don't forget that Dubi played some wing with season).

IF this is a legit rumor, the only reason I can see Sather going for it is to make a play for Duschene. The 7th, Sanguinetti and the Ranger's 1st rounder might be enough to move up to #3 overall. That would give the Rangers two of the Brampton line to groom for the NHL, Anisimov could take over for Dubinsky, and Kaberle could take Staal's spot while Gilroy/DelZotto/Sauer round out Redden's spot.

Toronto would do it because Kaberle isn't worth what Leaf fans think he's worth (or he would have been traded long ago) and Staal and Dubi are MUCH MUCH better than the #7 and Stralman.

That said, I hope the Rangers show some patience here, because this whole trade reeks of Marc Savard and spare parts for Jamie Lundmark.
No, Toronto would not do it. Under any circumstances. Kaberle is an all-star puck-moving defenseman who is top 10-15 in the league at his position. If the Rangers are trying to acquire him, they're going to pay the premium for what a player of all-star calibre is worth. And if they're throwing in a guy like Redden and his ridiculous contract, the price just went up.

IWD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:20 PM
  #92
BlairBettsBlocks
 
BlairBettsBlocks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Manhattan,NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 978
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
I'd love to get Staal or Dubinsky, but Redden to the Leafs is a non-starter. Now, if it was Roszival instead, I'd seriously consider it.
Rozsival is terrible

BlairBettsBlocks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:25 PM
  #93
re5piration
'67 til
 
re5piration's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,434
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azazel View Post
I realize Ranger fans love Dubinsky and Staal, and with good reason, but Redden's contract actually causes their value to go down significantly. Not only that, but Dubinsky isn't even needed. He's good, but second-line centers are one of the few things that this team needs. That leaves Staal and Redden. So the Leafs their all-star puck-moving defenseman and his replacement, and throw in a 1st for good measure?

Ranger fans don't want it, and neither do Leaf fans. It's not going to happen, so I guess we're all happy.
Completely agree, how would Burke even consider Sather's proposal without bursting out in laughter? The local alley drug dealer got busted last week, Sather, please tell me where to get whatever the hell it is that you're smoking

re5piration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:32 PM
  #94
alienanton*
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Leaf Nation
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,061
vCash: 500
stralman + 1st for staal is at least reasonable.

but kaberle for redden (essentially a dump) and dubinsky (a glorified 3rd liner) is absolutely ridiculous.

replace dubinksy with a high prospect and their own first and we're talking..

to NYR:

kaberle
stralman
1st

to TOR:

redden
staal
sanguinetti
1st

alienanton* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:34 PM
  #95
Miller Time
Registered User
 
Miller Time's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by btn View Post
They get the two best young players in the deal?

I don't see why the Rangers would do this.
NY gets:
- out from under redden's terrible contract (which is grossly compounded in NY where they already have 2 other burdensome contracts in Drury/Gomez)

- the best player in the deal (as of right now, Kaberle is still better than Staal or Dubinsky)

- a top 10 pick in a very good draft


from a non-partisan view (and actually I strongly dislike the leafs) I think it would be a great deal for NY... It's not terrible for Toronto, and may work out well for them, but if Redden continues to regress as he has the past 2-3 years, having him on the books for a 6.5M cap hit for 5 more years (until he's 36) would be a killer.

either way, Burke just came out and said that the Leafs would be careful with the contracts they hand out given the likely drop in the salary cap coming in 2010/11, he might just be blowing smoke, but taking on one of the worst contracts in the league doesn't seem likely.

Miller Time is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:36 PM
  #96
CapsWolverinesUSA
Registered User
 
CapsWolverinesUSA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,134
vCash: 500
Is there any player more overrated by their home fanbase than Brandon Dubinsky? The guy has 81 points in 170 games. He showed ZERO improvement this year from his rookie year. And yet Rangers fans seem to think he's a major trade chip.

Yes, yes, Renny blah blah Perry Pearn blah blah Torts wants to give him a handjob he loves Duby so much blah blah. The guy is a nice 3rd line player. That's it. AND HE ISN'T EVEN SIGNED.

I don't care how good Staal is. You don't eat the worst contract in the NHL, give up the #7 pick, get rid of your best veteran trade asset, and dish one of your better prospects for one young defensive defensemen and the RFA rights to a third line center.

CapsWolverinesUSA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:38 PM
  #97
re5piration
'67 til
 
re5piration's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,434
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Is there any player more overrated by their home fanbase than Brandon Dubinsky? The guy has 81 points in 170 games. He showed ZERO improvement this year from his rookie year. And yet Rangers fans seem to think he's a major trade chip.

Yes, yes, Renny blah blah Perry Pearn blah blah Torts wants to give him a handjob he loves Duby so much blah blah. The guy is a nice 3rd line player. That's it. AND HE ISN'T EVEN SIGNED.

I don't care how good Staal is. You don't eat the worst contract in the NHL, give up the #7 pick, get rid of your best veteran trade asset, and dish one of your better prospects for one young defensive defensemen and the RFA rights to a third line center.
Exactly.

And wow

re5piration is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:43 PM
  #98
SpezDispenser
Registered User
 
SpezDispenser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 14,597
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapshot723 View Post
Toronto is getting 2 of the 3 best players in this deal. Staal is absolutely incredible, and Dubinsky is a good young centre.

That's why Toronto would do this.
You saddle yourself with 5 more years of Redden @ 6.5 per year and you lose any trade. Staal and Dubinsky make up for it a little, but there's no way around Redden for 5 more years.

Obviously that's why Sather's including attractive players.

Maybe if Burke's ready to waive Redden and put him on re-entry, but otherwise it's a tough sell.

SpezDispenser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:44 PM
  #99
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapsWolverinesUSA View Post
Is there any player more overrated by their home fanbase than Brandon Dubinsky? The guy has 81 points in 170 games. He showed ZERO improvement this year from his rookie year. And yet Rangers fans seem to think he's a major trade chip.

Yes, yes, Renny blah blah Perry Pearn blah blah Torts wants to give him a handjob he loves Duby so much blah blah. The guy is a nice 3rd line player. That's it. AND HE ISN'T EVEN SIGNED.

I don't care how good Staal is. You don't eat the worst contract in the NHL, give up the #7 pick, get rid of your best veteran trade asset, and dish one of your better prospects for one young defensive defensemen and the RFA rights to a third line center.
It's funny reading what other posters who don't watch the Rangers have to say. It's funny b/c it's wrong.

"Dubinsky is a nice 3rd line player, that's it." That is an abysmal statement. Dubinsky is an EASY second line player and has an excess amount fo raw skill. He just needs to tighten the package just a little, and that's coming w/ time. Stop spewing garbage please.

hpNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 02:47 PM
  #100
Gunnar Stahl 30
...In The World!
 
Gunnar Stahl 30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Marty's Better
Country: Iceland
Posts: 14,907
vCash: 500
terrible for toronto

Gunnar Stahl 30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:12 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.