HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

Sabres-Oilers

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
05-24-2009, 12:50 PM
  #1
One Trick Pony*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
Sabres-Oilers

To Buffalo:
Andrew Cogliano
Tom Gilbert
2009 2nd round pick


To Edmonton:
Drew Stafford
Toni Lydman
Adam Mair


Buffalo gets their cornerstone puck-mover on their blueline, and a skilled young forward who has already shown he has the ability to score 20 goals, they also accumulate another pick in a deep draft.


Edmonton gets a gritty Top-6 forward, a shutdown defenseman and an experienced pivot for the checking line.

One Trick Pony* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 12:52 PM
  #2
Chainshot
Global Moderator
Give 'em Enough Rope
 
Chainshot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Costa Rica
Country: Costa Rica
Posts: 56,236
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Trick Pony View Post
To Buffalo:
Andrew Cogliano
Tom Gilbert
2009 2nd round pick


To Edmonton:
Drew Stafford
Toni Lydman
Adam Mair


Buffalo gets their cornerstone puck-mover on their blueline, and a skilled young forward who has already shown he has the ability to score 20 goals, they also accumulate another pick in a deep draft.


Edmonton gets a gritty Top-6 forward, a shutdown defenseman and an experienced pivot for the checking line.
Take the pick out for the Oilers, and Mair out from the Sabres. Then add a pick (like a 2nd) from Buffalo and that might have wheels.

__________________
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle
Chainshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 12:53 PM
  #3
Joey Moss
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Joey Moss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,990
vCash: 226
No thanyou. That would be severe overpayment because the Oilers give 2 of the 3 best parts in the trade.

Cogliano>Stafford or Gilbert>Stafford
Cogliano>Lydman or Gilbert>Lydman
2nd round pick> Mair

Joey Moss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 12:55 PM
  #4
The Pucks
Registered User
 
The Pucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,584
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Trick Pony View Post
To Buffalo:
Andrew Cogliano
Tom Gilbert
2009 2nd round pick


To Edmonton:
Drew Stafford
Toni Lydman
Adam Mair


Buffalo gets their cornerstone puck-mover on their blueline, and a skilled young forward who has already shown he has the ability to score 20 goals, they also accumulate another pick in a deep draft.


Edmonton gets a gritty Top-6 forward, a shutdown defenseman and an experienced pivot for the checking line.
I think your going to get some flack from Edmonton fans for this one. They give up 2 younger guys with a fair amount of potential and the mandatory 2nd round pick. Stafford is a nice asset, but Lydman and Mair dont really inspire to many teams to trade away youth.

I do think a guy like Mair would help Edmontons bottom 6.

The Pucks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 12:58 PM
  #5
OpethianSabre20
..........
 
OpethianSabre20's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Youngstown, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 8,123
vCash: 500
I'm a big Cogliano fan and would definitely do this trade, but there is no way in hell Edmonton would do it.

OpethianSabre20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:00 PM
  #6
campmolson19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: The Pond
Posts: 134
vCash: 500
take out Mair and add Sekera, drop pick to 3rd

to EDM
Stafford
Lydman
Sekera

To BUF
Cogliano
Gilbert
3rd Rounder

campmolson19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:03 PM
  #7
blackcoffee
 
blackcoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,483
vCash: 500
Yeah. This trade doesn't make sense for the Oilers.

I think that Glbert and Stafford are close value wise. But Cogliano is worth way more than Lydman. I guess that 2nd for Mair doesn't seem that far off.

blackcoffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:06 PM
  #8
speeds
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: St.Albert
Posts: 6,822
vCash: 500
I don't really like this for the Oilers, even though I like Lydman.

I don't know if Stafford is any better than Cogliano (he probably fits the Oilers better, right now, but who knows how they project their roster going forward?) at the moment, but I don't think he's better by enough to trade Gilbert, who's signed for 5 more years, for Lydman who's a UFA at the end of the year, unless they think they can replace Gilbert for cheaper via UFA next summer, which might not be a terrible idea given the projected cap situation next summer. That said, they committed to Gilbert, presumably because they really like him going forward, so I'd be surprised if that were enough of a trade package to move him.

speeds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:17 PM
  #9
BoldNewLettuce
Esquire
 
BoldNewLettuce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,405
vCash: 157
gogulla, stafford, and a 1st/2nd for gilbert, cogliano

BoldNewLettuce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:26 PM
  #10
Tavaresmagicalplay*
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 19,306
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeds View Post
I don't really like this for the Oilers, even though I like Lydman.

I don't know if Stafford is any better than Cogliano (he probably fits the Oilers better, right now, but who knows how they project their roster going forward?) at the moment, but I don't think he's better by enough to trade Gilbert, who's signed for 5 more years, for Lydman who's a UFA at the end of the year, unless they think they can replace Gilbert for cheaper via UFA next summer, which might not be a terrible idea given the projected cap situation next summer. That said, they committed to Gilbert, presumably because they really like him going forward, so I'd be surprised if that were enough of a trade package to move him.
Man oiler fans are quick to run players out of town. I think the guy proposing this trade is severly underestimating Tom Gilbert because of his poor defensive play near the end of the season. The guy is still a tremendous talent and so is Cogliano. I do not do this deal.

I think Staffords dad works for edmonton though right?

Tavaresmagicalplay* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 01:36 PM
  #11
Joey Moss
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Joey Moss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,990
vCash: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
Man oiler fans are quick to run players out of town. I think the guy proposing this trade is severly underestimating Tom Gilbert because of his poor defensive play near the end of the season. The guy is still a tremendous talent and so is Cogliano. I do not do this deal.

I think Staffords dad works for edmonton though right?
yes, Barrie Stafford is the equipement manager.

Joey Moss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 04:43 PM
  #12
Andrew B
Registered User
 
Andrew B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Albert
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,373
vCash: 500
Stafford is the -perfect- player to grow alongside Gagner.

I would give up Cogs sooner than I would Gilbert.

I doubt Cogs being part of the Oilers after July 1, but who knows.

Andrew B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 05:09 PM
  #13
jumptheshark
Give the dog a bone
 
jumptheshark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: hf retirement home
Country: United Nations
Posts: 52,292
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Trick Pony View Post
To Buffalo:
Andrew Cogliano
Tom Gilbert
2009 2nd round pick


To Edmonton:
Drew Stafford
Toni Lydman
Adam Mair


Buffalo gets their cornerstone puck-mover on their blueline, and a skilled young forward who has already shown he has the ability to score 20 goals, they also accumulate another pick in a deep draft.


Edmonton gets a gritty Top-6 forward, a shutdown defenseman and an experienced pivot for the checking line.
deal does not work for the oilers for the following reasons

1)Oilers are given up more then they are getting
2) With Staois they already have a Lydman type of d-man and at 32 years of age I think the oilers would be looking for a younger player then him.
3) Both Mair and Lydman are ufa after this next season and I don't see the oilers trading a guy signed for 5 more years and a guy that is only a rfa for players who could walk away in 12 months
4)Having Brodziuk would make Mair redundant

Stafford for Gilbert and Cogs makes no sense.

__________________
trying to fend off exwife number 2
45000/010113
GO SHARKS GO
jumptheshark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 05:16 PM
  #14
HarriSateri
 
HarriSateri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 951
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by campmolson19 View Post
take out Mair and add Sekera, drop pick to 3rd

to EDM
Stafford
Lydman
Sekera

To BUF
Cogliano
Gilbert
3rd Rounder
Lol is this a joke?

HarriSateri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 05:22 PM
  #15
Traktor*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew B View Post
I doubt Cogs being part of the Oilers after July 1, but who knows.
What the hell are they putting in the water down in Edmonton?

The only forward forward that scored more goals than Ales Hemsky last year was Andrew Cogliano.

And that's with playing with a revolving door of shyt on his line all year in Moreau, Reddox and Pouliot.

He also put up those numbers despite starting without the puck 65% of the time because of his faceoff deficiencies.

It should also be mentioned that he didn't get Gravy PP minutes like Hemsky and Horcoff and hasn't had everything thorwn at him on a silver platter like Gagner.

He's arguably the fastest player in the league.

Despite his size he's more aggressive than any other of our top 6 forward.

He maintained his high shooting % this year despite playing with hacks that average around 10 assists a year.

There's no way in the world that Edmonton should be labeled as the most knowledgeable fans in the game when there's as many mutants as there is calling to move Cogliano.

The same goes for Gilbert.

Gilbert is..

- Tied for 17th most points in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 9th most assists in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 6th most even strength points in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 32nd most block shots in the league for defensemen

All this despite be regulated to the 2nd PP unit because of more established players like Visnovsky and Souray.

Why in the world is Edmonton trying to move a wonderful asset like Gilbert?

Even if Jbo was thinking about signing in Edmonton I'm sure he'd change his mind in a hurry if he seen how ridiculously short-sighed and flaky Edmonton fans were - I'm sure that's why the rumor that the said he'd never play in Edmonton got out in the first place.


Last edited by Traktor*: 05-24-2009 at 05:31 PM.
Traktor* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 05:24 PM
  #16
Cerebral
Registered User
 
Cerebral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,676
vCash: 500
Cogliano straight up for Stafford is something that might make some more sense. The Oilers are looking to get bigger and Stafford is a big kid with some ties to the Edmonton organization. Lowe has shown a tendency to acquire players he coveted at the draft (Lupul, Pitkanen and O'Marra to name a few) so it wouldn't shock me Tambellini would look at doing something like this.

Does Buffalo have any need for a small but quick and talented player like Cogliano?

__________________
Burn Girl Prom Queen
Cerebral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 05:27 PM
  #17
Traktor*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,657
vCash: 500
The fact that Gilbert is labeled as "bad defensively" speaks volumes about how stupid the average fan is.

Traktor* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 05:41 PM
  #18
Andrew B
Registered User
 
Andrew B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Albert
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,373
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
What the hell are they putting in the water down in Edmonton?

The only forward forward that scored more goals than Ales Hemsky last year was Andrew Cogliano.

And that's with playing with a revolving door of shyt on his line all year in Moreau, Reddox and Pouliot.

He also put up those numbers despite starting without the puck 65% of the time because of his faceoff deficiencies.

It should also be mentioned that he didn't get Gravy PP minutes like Hemsky and Horcoff and hasn't had everything thorwn at him on a silver platter like Gagner.

He's arguably the fastest player in the league.

Despite his size he's more aggressive than any other of our top 6 forward.

He maintained his high shooting % this year despite playing with hacks that average around 10 assists a year.

There's no way in the world that Edmonton should be labeled as the most knowledgeable fans in the game when there's as many mutants as there is calling to move Cogliano.

The same goes for Gilbert.

Gilbert is..

- Tied for 17th most points in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 9th most assists in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 6th most even strength points in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 32nd most block shots in the league for defensemen

All this despite be regulated to the 2nd PP unit because of more established players like Visnovsky and Souray.

Why in the world is Edmonton trying to move a wonderful asset like Gilbert?

Even if Jbo was thinking about signing in Edmonton I'm sure he'd change his mind in a hurry if he seen how ridiculously short-sighed and flaky Edmonton fans were - I'm sure that's why the rumor that the said he'd never play in Edmonton got out in the first place.

I don't think I am being flaky, just realistic.

Gilbert & Cogliano are our top-2 tradeable players, despite Cogliano's boxcars, I think most fans would agree that Gagner is the better asset. Cogliano is also alot smaller than Gagner & doesn't play as feisty a game.

I would do Cogliano for Stafford in a heart-beat.

Andrew B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 05:54 PM
  #19
Traktor*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew B View Post
Cogliano is also alot smaller than Gagner & doesn't play as feisty a game.
NHL.com lists Gagner and 7 pounds heavier and 1 inch taller. Marginal difference.

Cogliano is listed with 57 hits while Gagner only registered 28 - I guess the fans are going to see what they want to see.

Are Cogliano and Gilbert attractive assets? Of course. That doesn't mean that you actively shop them.

What's the point? As long as Shawn Horcoff is our #1C this team will be a bottom feeder - so unless we're bringing in a legit impact to utilize Hemsky moving our best assets for more 10's and jacks would be as short-sighted as it gets.

Traktor* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 06:20 PM
  #20
Andrew B
Registered User
 
Andrew B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Albert
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,373
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
NHL.com lists Gagner and 7 pounds heavier and 1 inch taller. Marginal difference.

Cogliano is listed with 57 hits while Gagner only registered 28 - I guess the fans are going to see what they want to see.
You quoted the Hit statistic? seriously? that is the most wacky stat for everyone but the leaders.

I don't see what I want to see, I see what is played in front of me. Gagner's game is far more complete than Cogliano's, Gagner plays harder more often and has better skills for a centermen.

Andrew B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 06:30 PM
  #21
smackdaddy
Hall-RNH-Eberle
 
smackdaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: B.C.
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
NHL.com lists Gagner and 7 pounds heavier and 1 inch taller. Marginal difference.

Cogliano is listed with 57 hits while Gagner only registered 28 - I guess the fans are going to see what they want to see.

Are Cogliano and Gilbert attractive assets? Of course. That doesn't mean that you actively shop them.

What's the point? As long as Shawn Horcoff is our #1C this team will be a bottom feeder - so unless we're bringing in a legit impact to utilize Hemsky moving our best assets for more 10's and jacks would be as short-sighted as it gets.
Most reasonable fans would agree with everything you said in this post and your last. There is no reason to trade Cogliano or Gilbert, and is just a desperate cry from the fairweather fan who thinks that we are better off without these players.

With a new, offensive-minded coach who has fresh insight, I fully expect Cogliano to have a breakout season next year.

smackdaddy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 07:13 PM
  #22
One Trick Pony*
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Windsor, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,022
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
What the hell are they putting in the water down in Edmonton?

The only forward forward that scored more goals than Ales Hemsky last year was Andrew Cogliano.

And that's with playing with a revolving door of shyt on his line all year in Moreau, Reddox and Pouliot.

He also put up those numbers despite starting without the puck 65% of the time because of his faceoff deficiencies.

It should also be mentioned that he didn't get Gravy PP minutes like Hemsky and Horcoff and hasn't had everything thorwn at him on a silver platter like Gagner.

He's arguably the fastest player in the league.

Despite his size he's more aggressive than any other of our top 6 forward.

He maintained his high shooting % this year despite playing with hacks that average around 10 assists a year.

There's no way in the world that Edmonton should be labeled as the most knowledgeable fans in the game when there's as many mutants as there is calling to move Cogliano.

The same goes for Gilbert.

Gilbert is..

- Tied for 17th most points in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 9th most assists in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 6th most even strength points in the league for defensemen
- Tied for 32nd most block shots in the league for defensemen

All this despite be regulated to the 2nd PP unit because of more established players like Visnovsky and Souray.

Why in the world is Edmonton trying to move a wonderful asset like Gilbert?

Even if Jbo was thinking about signing in Edmonton I'm sure he'd change his mind in a hurry if he seen how ridiculously short-sighed and flaky Edmonton fans were - I'm sure that's why the rumor that the said he'd never play in Edmonton got out in the first place.
We haven't made the playoffs in 3 years.

Obviously I am going to be very impatient.

One Trick Pony* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 08:31 PM
  #23
Traktor*
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,657
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by One Trick Pony View Post
We haven't made the playoffs in 3 years.

Obviously I am going to be very impatient.
Who cares if you make the playoffs if you have no realistic shot at the Cup.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love to be there as much as you. But are you willing to compromise your chances of winning a Stanley for a couple extra home games? I'm not.

I certainly hope Edmonton management handles their resources and assets better than some of these proposals suggest.

First and foremost we need to ask ourselves what cycle Edmonton is in. Is Edmonton's window for success (and by success I mean starting the playoffs with home advantage) right now? Is it two or three years down the line? Is it like the Islanders and Atlanta, undefined?

Realistically the Oilers are still a couple years out; Gagner, Cogliano, Nilsson, O'Sullivan are all a couple years away from taking this team and carrying them on their backs and unfortunately
while Horcoff may occupy the 1st line center role, he's anything but.

Who knows, maybe guys like Cogliano and Nilsson elevate their game to the next level next year. But they have to be members of the Edmonton Oilers for it to pay dividends - what good is it if Cogliano is lighting up things in the Eastern Conference because Edmonton traded him for a marginal upgrade on the wrong side of his career (not specifically talking about Stafford here).

The other thing is who is Edmonton's goaltender?

Is it the 40 year old Roli?

Are you going to throw all your eggs in a basket and go to war with a 40 year old tender?

Or are you going to role with rookie goalie, JDD?

Unless Edmonton management pull a rabbit out of their backsides and sign "The Monster" I really can't see how Edmonton could be called a contender with the rest of the fodder that will be available.

The other and most obvious question is: potential return vs actual impact

I believe that the return that Visnovsky would bring heavily outweighs the actual difference in play between the two.

We seen the exact same example of this last year with Joni Pitkanen and Tom Gilbert.

When you factor in that Gilbert makes around a buck and a half less per year its a no-brainer who you would keep.

That said, if Gilbert has the most value around the league then he's the guy you trade - but I'm not sure that is the case and if it were the case then you certainly wouldn't be moving him for some of the garbage proposals that have graced HF lately.

Steve Ott for Tom Gilbert? For puck sakes people (again, this rant isn't specifically aimed at your op).

Traktor* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 08:34 PM
  #24
Andrew B
Registered User
 
Andrew B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Albert
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,373
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Most reasonable fans would agree with everything you said in this post and your last. There is no reason to trade Cogliano or Gilbert, and is just a desperate cry from the fairweather fan who thinks that we are better off without these players.

With a new, offensive-minded coach who has fresh insight, I fully expect Cogliano to have a breakout season next year.

Sure theres a reason to trade them if you can get fair value, and the right player for them.

I doubt Cogliano will have a "break-out" year next year. He is obviously going to be switching to the wing, which I guarantee will be a rough transition, and if the team stays relatively the same, he will see 0 PP Time.

Andrew B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
05-24-2009, 08:36 PM
  #25
Joey Moss
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Joey Moss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21,990
vCash: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew B View Post
Stafford is the -perfect- player to grow alongside Gagner.

I would give up Cogs sooner than I would Gilbert.

I doubt Cogs being part of the Oilers after July 1, but who knows.
Why do you think Cogliano is not going to be an Oilers after July 1? Is it for size? his speed makes up for it, no way the Oilers should let this guy go.

Joey Moss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:17 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.