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Old
05-26-2009, 04:10 PM
  #1
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Goaltending Coach

Why is the goalteding coach David Maricox(spelling) being fired. he is good. kipper likes him

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05-26-2009, 04:12 PM
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Kipper not liking the coach should be the least of concerns... all I want is the coach to make Kipper play the best he can. For the money Kipper gets he is surely capable of sucking it up and being the elite like he used to be three seasons ago

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05-26-2009, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Why is the goalteding coach David Maricox(spelling) being fired. he is good. kipper likes him

David Marcoux wasn't fired, he just didn't have his contract renewed. I'm glad to see that the entire coaching staff is gone and we'll have a clean slate behind the bench next season. And it's not the Flames' job to surround Kiprusoff with people he likes, it's their job to surround him with people who will get the best out of him.

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05-26-2009, 04:33 PM
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The one theme that came out today was it is now the players who will be held accountable. ABOUT TIME!!!

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05-27-2009, 08:37 AM
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you seriously need to ask why the goaltending coach is going to be gone?... out "elite' goaltender put up numbers that would make Dan Cloutier look bad... basically what I am saying is its easier to fire the goaltending coach than trade an overpaid hack with a NMC

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05-27-2009, 09:58 AM
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This might be the best thing for Kipper and whos to say he wont like the new goaltending coach even more. Ether way the goalie coach might be able to light a whole new fire under Kipper butt which will a very good thing.

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Old
05-27-2009, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Why is the goalteding coach David Maricox(spelling) being fired. he is good. kipper likes him
In the PC after we were eliminated by Chicago, Sutter mentioned that he was unhappy how Kipper was handled this year. He did say that Keenan was partially responsible for the fact that he played too much this year... but he also mentioned that the goaltending coach needed to have a good handle on his goalie's performance and whether he should be playing or not. Said that the goalie coach needed to stand up for the goalie (along with the Head Coach) and put their feet down when Kipper shouldn't have played.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's part of the reason Marcoux got canned. I do like Marcoux, but maybe it's time for Kipper to get some different perspective and coaching from a new voice.

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Old
05-27-2009, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Lunatik View Post
you seriously need to ask why the goaltending coach is going to be gone?... out "elite' goaltender put up numbers that would make Dan Cloutier look bad... basically what I am saying is its easier to fire the goaltending coach than trade an overpaid hack with a NMC
LOL!

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05-27-2009, 05:58 PM
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/\ COSIGN

if anything your always good for a laugh lunatik.. DELUSIONISM FTW!


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05-27-2009, 06:02 PM
  #10
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Originally Posted by sonetlumiere View Post
/\ COSIGN

if anything your always good for a laugh lunatik..
laugh all you want... statistically Kipper's season last season (except wins) was worse than any where Cloutier was a starter in Vancouver

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05-27-2009, 06:07 PM
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yeah, and wins are where it counts the most, wouldn't you say?

frankly i could care less if he posts a 2.5 gaa, as long as he wins 40 games and puts in a good position for the post-season.. which he has every year since becoming a flame..

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05-27-2009, 06:08 PM
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oh but he is elite though so he is covered with a mystery shield which repells all criticism

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05-27-2009, 06:24 PM
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every player's open to criticism, but to call a guy who carried the team on his back the whole year through an "overpaid hack" is ****ing ridiculous.

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05-27-2009, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sonetlumiere View Post
yeah, and wins are where it counts the most, wouldn't you say?

frankly i could care less if he posts a 2.5 gaa, as long as he wins 40 games and puts in a good position for the post-season.. which he has every year since becoming a flame..
Then why was Raycroft chased out of Toronto?

Kiprusoff's GAA was 2.84, please don't bring in fake numbers. And how has he put us in a good position to win in the post season?

It's quite obvious you haven't watched Kipper as of late. He's living off of his name. The 3.21 GAA with a SV% of .908 last year. Wait how about the 3.52 GAA and sv% of .884 this year?

We have won one division with him as our goalie. 8th, 7th and 5th for the rest of the years. Wow, great position for us to win, no home ice advantage.

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05-27-2009, 07:34 PM
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lol thanks wikibam! i was obviously rounding together his collective averages these past four seasons, but its always good to have a reference for arguments sake.

not gonna lie, you bring up a valid point with the final season standings, but honestly how much of that was kiprusoff's fault? sure blame has to be placed somewhere, and sometimes he's deserving of it, but placing the lost season solely on his shoulders is pretty childish. even more-so considering he's been one of the reasons we've made the playoffs the past few years in the first place. i mean, do you honestly think the teams past wouldve had even a remote shot to make the post season without a tender of his caliber? probably not my friend. now here's a valid point to match; two out of the three times we've been eliminated in the first round its been to the team that eventually went on to win the cup (possible three for three, but extremely unlikely considering chicago's injury woes facing elimination). in each one of those series' we were outplayed in every facet of the game, plain and simple, we cant keep holding one player acceptable for the collective teams bad performance's.

its funny, nobody seems to remember that we had decent teams in the early 2000's aswell (almost carbon copies of the '04, '05 teams) but never had the elite tender to push us into the playoffs. when we finally found one we went straight to the finals. coincidence? hmm, probably not eh? the only reason this hurts more than the other years is because of the great team we had assembled up front.. but we remained lack-luster in the back which proved to be our catalyst down the stretch.

did kipper have a bad year statistically speaking? sure. has he had a couple shaky first round's? absolutely. but how many times has he given us a great chance to win only for our team to sit back, let him get shelled and eventually lose the game? answer: too many to count.

i guess what im trying to get at is there's just too many deciding factors (injuries, games started, bad defense, new players ect. ect.) to place the blame solely upon kipper, and it's extremely unfair to do so.

*oh yo and to acknowledge the raycoft question; did raycroft make saves when his team needed him most? no. theres your answer.

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05-28-2009, 12:05 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonetlumiere View Post
every player's open to criticism, but to call a guy who carried the team on his back the whole year through an "overpaid hack" is ****ing ridiculous.
LOL!

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05-28-2009, 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by sonetlumiere View Post
lol thanks wikibam! i was obviously rounding together his collective averages these past four seasons, but its always good to have a reference for arguments sake.

not gonna lie, you bring up a valid point with the final season standings, but honestly how much of that was kiprusoff's fault? sure blame has to be placed somewhere, and sometimes he's deserving of it, but placing the lost season solely on his shoulders is pretty childish. even more-so considering he's been one of the reasons we've made the playoffs the past few years in the first place. i mean, do you honestly think the teams past wouldve had even a remote shot to make the post season without a tender of his caliber? probably not my friend. now here's a valid point to match; two out of the three times we've been eliminated in the first round its been to the team that eventually went on to win the cup (possible three for three, but extremely unlikely considering chicago's injury woes facing elimination). in each one of those series' we were outplayed in every facet of the game, plain and simple, we cant keep holding one player acceptable for the collective teams bad performance's.

its funny, nobody seems to remember that we had decent teams in the early 2000's aswell (almost carbon copies of the '04, '05 teams) but never had the elite tender to push us into the playoffs. when we finally found one we went straight to the finals. coincidence? hmm, probably not eh? the only reason this hurts more than the other years is because of the great team we had assembled up front.. but we remained lack-luster in the back which proved to be our catalyst down the stretch.

did kipper have a bad year statistically speaking? sure. has he had a couple shaky first round's? absolutely. but how many times has he given us a great chance to win only for our team to sit back, let him get shelled and eventually lose the game? answer: too many to count.

i guess what im trying to get at is there's just too many deciding factors (injuries, games started, bad defense, new players ect. ect.) to place the blame solely upon kipper, and it's extremely unfair to do so.

*oh yo and to acknowledge the raycoft question; did raycroft make saves when his team needed him most? no. theres your answer.
A well rounded way to give the polite excuses for Kippers plummet from the top of the heap. Really... I could care a less about the regular season as long as they place at least 8th. In game 6 for example Kipper was awful, then the Havlat goal to win game one in OT was just plain awful. For that money he is not worth it the way he played last year. He is the most scared of a Sutter return as Darryl does not put up with that as a coach... and that is what "our players who are tough to coach" need... to actually feel they are accountable for their bags of money including our elite goalie.

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Old
05-28-2009, 02:58 AM
  #18
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Hundred bucks it'll be Jamie McLennan as the new Goaltending Coach.

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Old
05-28-2009, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sonetlumiere View Post
lol thanks wikibam! i was obviously rounding together his collective averages these past four seasons, but its always good to have a reference for arguments sake.
Rounding his averages? Well, that counts his averages from over 2 years ago. The current Kipper sucks, but if you bring in his old averages, of course he will look good.

If I really wanted too, I can look up any older goalie, get his averages and make him seem like a starter, even if he is truly not worthy of that.

Cmon now.


Quote:
not gonna lie, you bring up a valid point with the final season standings, but honestly how much of that was kiprusoff's fault? sure blame has to be placed somewhere, and sometimes he's deserving of it, but placing the lost season solely on his shoulders is pretty childish. even more-so considering he's been one of the reasons we've made the playoffs the past few years in the first place. i mean, do you honestly think the teams past wouldve had even a remote shot to make the post season without a tender of his caliber? probably not my friend. now here's a valid point to match; two out of the three times we've been eliminated in the first round its been to the team that eventually went on to win the cup (possible three for three, but extremely unlikely considering chicago's injury woes facing elimination). in each one of those series' we were outplayed in every facet of the game, plain and simple, we cant keep holding one player acceptable for the collective teams bad performance's.
Tons. He lost way more games, than he won.

And who cares who we lose to, and when they eventually lose in the playoffs? The fact of the matter is, that if the Flames want to be even considered elite, they have to beat a good opponent. They have shown time and time again they can't.

We weren't outplayed every game. Khabibulin kept the Hawks in the game over the series, and held his own. Meanwhile Kiprusoff let in a lot of softies.

Quote:
its funny, nobody seems to remember that we had decent teams in the early 2000's aswell (almost carbon copies of the '04, '05 teams) but never had the elite tender to push us into the playoffs. when we finally found one we went straight to the finals. coincidence? hmm, probably not eh? the only reason this hurts more than the other years is because of the great team we had assembled up front.. but we remained lack-luster in the back which proved to be our catalyst down the stretch.
It's funny, because you're bringing up the past, when we are talking about the present and future.

Do you not want him to leave, as an act of kindness? Do you want me to feel sorry for him that he has fallen off?

Quote:
did kipper have a bad year statistically speaking? sure. has he had a couple shaky first round's? absolutely. but how many times has he given us a great chance to win only for our team to sit back, let him get shelled and eventually lose the game? answer: too many to count.
Very very few recently. He's lost more games than he has won us.

Quote:
i guess what im trying to get at is there's just too many deciding factors (injuries, games started, bad defense, new players ect. ect.) to place the blame solely upon kipper, and it's extremely unfair to do so.
Well, he's been one of the problems- a big one. Why does an elite goalie, need superb defense night in and night out? Answer: because he's a system goaltender.

Quote:
*oh yo and to acknowledge the raycoft question; did raycroft make saves when his team needed him most? no. theres your answer.
I was just using your logic(or whoever said the thing about wins) and he did just as many times as Kiprusoff did.

And I don't get how you get the, "he makes the saves when it counts" because if that were the case, then we would damn well would have won a series in the last 4 years.

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05-28-2009, 08:34 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonetlumiere View Post

did kipper have a bad year statistically speaking? sure. has he had a couple shaky first round's? absolutely. but how many times has he given us a great chance to win only for our team to sit back, let him get shelled and eventually lose the game? answer: too many to count.

i guess what im trying to get at is there's just too many deciding factors (injuries, games started, bad defense, new players ect. ect.) to place the blame solely upon kipper, and it's extremely unfair to do so.

*oh yo and to acknowledge the raycoft question; did raycroft make saves when his team needed him most? no. theres your answer.
Kipper's job is to win games plain and simple... sure he won 45 games... but he also lost 24... his stats are not just poor they are downright pathetic for a goaltender some consider to be elite... the only reason Kipper had 45 wins this year was the offense...

Kipper was pathetic down the stretch when we needed him most... he went a superb 8-9 and being pulled 5 times... allowing a brutal 57 goals in those 17 games... when your 'elite' goaltender is allowing 5 & 6 goals against teams like the Leafs and Lightning the problem is a lot more than the defense... Kipper was brutal this year the wins total is an aberration caused by a strong offense in the first 65 games of the year... his numbers have consistently fallen since winning the Vezina... calling him an overpaid hack when he performs that way is more than acceptable

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05-28-2009, 09:00 AM
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[QUOTE=bam09;19715259]Rounding his averages? Well, that counts his averages from over 2 years ago. The current Kipper sucks, but if you bring in his old averages, of course he will look good.

If I really wanted too, I can look up any older goalie, get his averages and make him seem like a starter, even if he is truly not worthy of that.

Cmon now.


To say Kipper Sucks shows how little hockey knowledge you have.

Has he been outstanding? amazing? No but you don't get 40 wins by sucking.

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05-28-2009, 09:02 AM
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I am not sure why people dont understand that Kipper is paid and treated like an elite goalie. He needs to perform at that calibre. The team invested tons in him. They tied up resources that they could have used some where else.

If he is paid half of what he is making then his performance is acceptable. Think about paying for a Posche but it drives like a Toyota Corrola.

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05-28-2009, 09:17 AM
  #23
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I am not sure why people dont understand that Kipper is paid and treated like an elite goalie. He needs to perform at that calibre. The team invested tons in him. They tied up resources that they could have used some where else.

If he is paid half of what he is making then his performance is acceptable. Think about paying for a Posche but it drives like a Toyota Corrola.
i think its more like paying for a Bently and driving like a Focus

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05-28-2009, 09:30 AM
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[QUOTE=navarz;19715405]
Quote:
Originally Posted by bam09 View Post
Rounding his averages? Well, that counts his averages from over 2 years ago. The current Kipper sucks, but if you bring in his old averages, of course he will look good.

If I really wanted too, I can look up any older goalie, get his averages and make him seem like a starter, even if he is truly not worthy of that.

Cmon now.


To say Kipper Sucks shows how little hockey knowledge you have.

Has he been outstanding? amazing? No but you don't get 40 wins by sucking.
Why does Kipper get a free pass, but Raycroft doesn't? Raycroft had 37 wins, but everyone and there mother said he sucks.

Sub 30s in GAA and SV% sucks, anyway you slice it.

You don't know what you are talking about, and have proved it time and time again. You type before you think. Put things into perspective please.

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05-28-2009, 09:46 AM
  #25
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[QUOTE=bam09;19715632]
Quote:
Originally Posted by navarz View Post

Why does Kipper get a free pass, but Raycroft doesn't? Raycroft had 37 wins, but everyone and there mother said he sucks.

Sub 30s in GAA and SV% sucks, anyway you slice it.

You don't know what you are talking about, and have proved it time and time again. You type before you think. Put things into perspective please.


What have you proved? Have you calculated shot against or the High number of scoring chances before you posted? He played in front of a terrible defense. If you are going to say otherwise please save us all the trouble and not respond.

From the Calgary Herrald.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/sports/...564/story.html


"I have a friend who's fond of saying that the difference between a smart man and dumb man is that the smart man makes 20 mistakes, the dumb man makes the same mistake 20 times,'' said Marcoux.

"You learn from every experience. I just have to view this as a new challenge.

"Am I surprised? To some extent, yeah. You do your player evaluations at the end of the year and Miikka Kiprusoff was the highest-rated player on our team again. He's been the best goalie in the league the last four years. His stats weren't maybe, because of a lack of defence...he had more high-quality chances against. But he still led the league in wins.


Last edited by navarz: 05-28-2009 at 09:53 AM.
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