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Points Per Game : Koivu vs. Kovalev

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Old
05-27-2009, 02:00 PM
  #1
HockeyF3ind
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Points Per Game : Koivu vs. Kovalev

Points Per Game for Career NHL Regular Season

Koivu 81% : Kovalev 79%


Points Per Game for Career NHL Playoffs

Koivu 89% : Kovalev 84%


And we would want to keep Kovy before Koivu why again?

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05-27-2009, 02:03 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyF3ind View Post
Points Per Game for Career NHL Regular Season

Koivu 81% : Kovalev 79%


Points Per Game for Career NHL Playoffs

Koivu 89% : Kovalev 84%


And we would want to keep Kovy before Koivu why again?
Do you have the breakdown of goals vs assists.

Find it and you'll have your answer.

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05-27-2009, 02:04 PM
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HabuseMoi
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Do you have the breakdown of goals vs assists.

Find it and you'll have your answer.
Zing! ^^

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05-27-2009, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Do you have the breakdown of goals vs assists.

Find it and you'll have your answer.

True Dat!!! We need goal scorers...hence we keep Kovy!

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Old
05-27-2009, 02:05 PM
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Koivu has a ppg comparable to Lecavalier's too. Who would you want right now? Some players at certain times had rough stretches and that changes their career average.

Right now without a question, Lecavalier>Kovalev>Koivu.

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05-27-2009, 02:11 PM
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HockeyF3ind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Do you have the breakdown of goals vs assists.

Find it and you'll have your answer.
Koivu : 30% Goals, 70% Assists

Kovalev: 40% Goals, 60% Assists

However, Kovalev's goal production have given way to his play making in more recent years. Never the less I'll take points anyway i can get em.

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Old
05-27-2009, 02:38 PM
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Jakomyte
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I think the point is that people tend to undervalue Koivu's production because he isn't a big, top-tier, #1 center in the league.

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05-27-2009, 02:41 PM
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I think in comparison to these two guys as well one has to say not what have you done, but what have you done lately and Kovalev's play speaks volumes of more done than that of Koivu the past 2 years.

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Old
05-27-2009, 02:44 PM
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Le Tricolore
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Koivu vs Kovalev is this season's Price vs Halak, I guess.

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Old
05-27-2009, 02:46 PM
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I don't see the point of comparing career stats when you need to make a decision on whether or not a player needs to be signed. IMO, I would pick Kovalev hands down. Koivu was an excellent player but injuries and cancer have taken a toll on him. Now he has been disappearing steadily, every year, around january/february, his point production is nothing to write home about and he can no longer play more than 14-15 minutes a game without tiring. His best years are behind him, while Kovalev is still in excellent shape and can still be a gamebreaker. However, given their age, I don't see the need to only pick one.

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05-27-2009, 02:48 PM
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vinny has a .85 ppg...while having regressed the last two years...had a major shoulder surgery last season and wrist injury this season and went .87 this year. 1.31 two years ago and 1.13 the year before so clearly he has been regressing meaning he has reached his peak or in this case passed it (look at the literal definition for all those who might jump on me for that statement...peak highest point then decline)

not saying he is declining but his age...ppg...and injuries may suggest otherwise...now in all honestly not saying he doesn't have the heart...but with an 11 year 80+ million dollar contract he has no incentive to ever bust his balls for a contract.

we have to trade a ******** of farm too...along the lines of subban, mcdonagh/maxpac, 1st and possibly another and still add to all that for someone who could cripple our depth for that perennial ppg center we need (done it twice out of 10 seasons)

koivu please stay not to mention that vinny's po ppg is a disappointing .73 while koivu's is .89 ppg in po's

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Old
05-27-2009, 02:57 PM
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Kriss E
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckhead58 View Post
True Dat!!! We need goal scorers...hence we keep Kovy!
We need centers...hence we keep Koivu!


Goal Scorers need playmakers.
Playmakers need goal scorers.

We need both.

In our top6.
Goal Scorers..Kovalev/A.Kost/Higgins(we can replace Lang with Higgy but I don't think Lang will be back) .
Playmakers..Koivu/Tanguay/Plekanec(although one can argue Plek is more of a goal scorer considering he only has 17assists more than goals over the past 3years)

Upcoming offensive players that could hold a more important role as of next year:
Latendresse..Goal Scorer.( but like Plekanec, I think he has playmaking abilities)
S.Kost..Playmaker.
D'Ago..Goal Scorer.
MaxPac..Goal Scorer.

So, wouldn't be so quick as to say we need Goal Scorers.

We need BETTER goal scorers or goal scoring. But we finished 1st in GF just last year with the same players so..

We only have Koivu, Tanguay and S.Kost that are true playmakers.
Koivu is a center and until we sign another one, we can't afford to lose him.


Last edited by Kriss E: 05-27-2009 at 03:04 PM.
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Old
05-27-2009, 02:58 PM
  #13
LyricalLyricist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Do you have the breakdown of goals vs assists.

Find it and you'll have your answer.
Next do the breakdown of 5 on 5 production vs PP production. This entire arguement will be void.

This year:

Koivu:
GP 65
G 16
A 34
P 50
PPG 5
PPA 12
PPP 17
ESG/SHG 11
ESA/SHA 22
ESP/SHP 33
+- +4

Kovalev:
GP 78
G 26
A 39
P 65
PPG 11
PPA 20
PPP 31
ESG/SHG 15
ESA/SHA 19
ESP/SHP 34
+- -5

Keep in mind kovalev gets more ice time and played 13 more games. His production comes on PP, koivu's is mostly 5 on 5.

Koivu had best faceoff % on the team and he's low maintenance compared to kovalev. Koivu can play with anyone, unlike kovalev.

Kovalev is by far our most talented player and a dangerous player, but people make it sound as if koivu is washed up, not even close.

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Old
05-27-2009, 03:18 PM
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Koivu had a good season a year ago. He was great at the beginning of this one before Tanguay got hurt and he's always been or best or 2nd best player in the playoffs.

I don't think he's that much worse than 4 years ago, honestly.

I like Kovalev. I don't have that much money and when I go at the bell center I'm really glad to see him play. He makes it worth the bucks...

My choice if I had to choose one ? Koivu. At least to show some dedications...

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Old
05-27-2009, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stiffler View Post
I don't see the point of comparing career stats when you need to make a decision on whether or not a player needs to be signed. IMO, I would pick Kovalev hands down. Koivu was an excellent player but injuries and cancer have taken a toll on him. Now he has been disappearing steadily, every year, around january/february, his point production is nothing to write home about and he can no longer play more than 14-15 minutes a game without tiring. His best years are behind him, while Kovalev is still in excellent shape and can still be a gamebreaker. However, given their age, I don't see the need to only pick one.
This, considering he still manages to get a PPG as good (or close) as Kovalev's PPG, speaks volumes about Kovalev impact on this team IMO...

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05-27-2009, 03:45 PM
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Blind Gardien
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I still don't see why there's any "vs"... we need to sign about 10 players this summer. I think that Koivu and Kovalev are two of them.

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05-27-2009, 03:47 PM
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Dr. Charles
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyF3ind View Post
Points Per Game for Career NHL Regular Season

Koivu 81% : Kovalev 79%


Points Per Game for Career NHL Playoffs

Koivu 89% : Kovalev 84%


And we would want to keep Kovy before Koivu why again?
You can always compare the past stats. But I'm expecting way more from Kovalev than from Koivu for the years to come...

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Old
05-27-2009, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I still don't see why there's any "vs"... we need to sign about 10 players this summer. I think that Koivu and Kovalev are two of them.
True we have to sign 10 players, but after 15 years of pure disapointment, I'm listening to myself and my attachment to hockey is still very strong, my attachment to this team is fading. Seriously : weak, small, streaky, passive, peripheric... it's everything but what I'd expect for my team.

Enough with the small unproud teams. It's starts with the Captain, even if it's really his fault or not.

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Old
05-27-2009, 04:00 PM
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montreal
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I still don't see why there's any "vs"... we need to sign about 10 players this summer. I think that Koivu and Kovalev are two of them.
Because it apears that's the way it has to be. Price vs Halak, Latendresse vs A.Kostitsyn a few years back when both were trying to break into the league, Latendresse vs Perezhogin before that, Lapierre vs Chipchura, etc..

Me, I root for the Habs, not certain players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Charles View Post
True we have to sign 10 players, but after 15 years of pure disapointment, I'm listening to myself and my attachment to hockey is still very strong, my attachment to this team is fading. Seriously : weak, small, streaky, passive, peripheric... it's everything but what I'd expect for my team.

Enough with the small unproud teams. It's starts with the Captain, even if it's really his fault or not.
No it doesn't. It starts with the GM, Koivu is just one person out of 23, it's a team sport and just because you have a letter, so what, it takes all 23 to win consistently. Koivu can't sign players, Koivu can't trade players, Koivu can't be blamed for a lack of talent on the roster over the years. Funny how things went when we had a line of Tanguay Koivu Kovalev, they looked great until Tanguay got injured, funny how good Koivu looks when he's with actual skilled hockey players, I know we haven't had many over the years so some might forget what it's like to see.

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Old
05-27-2009, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyF3ind View Post
Points Per Game for Career NHL Regular Season

Koivu 81% : Kovalev 79%


Points Per Game for Career NHL Playoffs

Koivu 89% : Kovalev 84%


And we would want to keep Kovy before Koivu why again?
I want to keep them both. But come on, by what you are saying here Koivu is just as good as Lecavalier looking at their career production. Fact is, Kovalev could still potentially score 35 goals and 80 points in a season. Lecavalier could potentially score 100 points in a season. Koivu is good for 60 points tops if he could play the full season, the problem there though is his body has gone through so much that i wouldn't expect he'd play the full season without injury.

Also, by what you are saying, Saku is WAY better then Mikko.

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05-27-2009, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
I still don't see why there's any "vs"... we need to sign about 10 players this summer. I think that Koivu and Kovalev are two of them.
I'm not sure what the league average distribution is, but it seems to me the Habs have a lot of players at the beginning and end of their careers. For next season, we know we will have under age 24:

- Price
- Halak
- Pacioretty
- Latendresse
- D'Agostini
- Sergei Kostitsyn

...and possibly/probably Stewart, Chipchura, Weber, O'Byrne.

Hamrlik is deep into his 30's, and then we potentially have Koivu, Kovalev, Lang and Brisebois.

That seems to me like a lot of players who are either still learning how to play in the NHL, or can be expected to decline at some (probably unpredictable) point.

The nice thing about players in the 25-32 age range is, you mostly know what you're getting. Barring injuries and other unforeseeable stuff, of course. At this point, with a strong system of prospects, the ability to spend to the cap, and a "win now" attitude, it seems to me the Habs should be moving towards trimming both extremes of the age spectrum, and adding more players in their prime.

Not to say that we should write off Koivu and Kovalev right away for that reason. As you say, we need to fill a lot of holes this offseason. It's just an argument to consider when picking between, say, Kovalev and Tanguay at wing. Or picking between keeping Plekanec and signing, say, Koivu, Lang and Sundin at center. Or potentially an argument for pursuing a player like Krejci via offer sheet.

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Old
05-27-2009, 04:33 PM
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Dr. Charles
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Originally Posted by mtlloveslucic View Post
Because it apears that's the way it has to be. Price vs Halak, Latendresse vs A.Kostitsyn a few years back when both were trying to break into the league, Latendresse vs Perezhogin before that, Lapierre vs Chipchura, etc..

Me, I root for the Habs, not certain players.



No it doesn't. It starts with the GM, Koivu is just one person out of 23, it's a team sport and just because you have a letter, so what, it takes all 23 to win consistently. Koivu can't sign players, Koivu can't trade players, Koivu can't be blamed for a lack of talent on the roster over the years. Funny how things went when we had a line of Tanguay Koivu Kovalev, they looked great until Tanguay got injured, funny how good Koivu looks when he's with actual skilled hockey players, I know we haven't had many over the years so some might forget what it's like to see.
If Koivu is only one player out of the 22 others, than we have a problem. If he has no more impact than the 22 others again we have a problem.

Sometimes, addition by substraction is the best thing to do. Ask the 2005-2006 Sabres.

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Old
05-27-2009, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyF3ind View Post
Points Per Game for Career NHL Regular Season

Koivu 81% : Kovalev 79%


Points Per Game for Career NHL Playoffs

Koivu 89% : Kovalev 84%


And we would want to keep Kovy before Koivu why again?
I don't care about stats. Kovy is more dominant than Koivu. He shoots harder and more precisely, can play physically and can change a game by his own. It's curious how our best year, last year, was the habs best year since 93. It's also curious that Kovy got 81 points.

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Old
05-27-2009, 05:31 PM
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I think we should sign this Gretzky dude - he has a PPG higher then Kovy and Koivu combined. And I heard he comes cheap...

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Old
05-27-2009, 07:26 PM
  #25
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Dr. Charles View Post
You can always compare the past stats. But I'm expecting way more from Kovalev than from Koivu for the years to come...
Both guys are in their mid to late thirties. There aren't many 'years to come' for either of these guys.

I don't see why we can't re-sign them both though.

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