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Chris Pronger to Philadelphia

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Old
05-28-2009, 06:52 PM
  #26
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Anaheim has to retain Pronger. If he leaves and Niedermayer retires they're left with an average defensive corps with Whitney, Wisniewski, (possibly) Beauchemin as 3 of their top 4. They'll want to hang onto him and extend him for another 3-5 years after his contract is up. It's not like they'd get Schenn or Bogosian quality for Pronger at this point.

Flyers would do much better to go after Kubina as a 2nd pairing two way defenseman with a physical edge or Witt as a strictly shutdown guy.

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05-28-2009, 08:07 PM
  #27
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I don't think the ducks touch Carle, Lupul, or Briere.

I think they would take one year of Randy Jones though.

Philly has a plethora of offensive talent. If they want to dump jones (who is a UFA at end of season) and give up a lot of quality forward talent, then something can happen.

However, I'd expect something like Gagne + Sbsisa/JVR/Giroux.

I do think the ducks are making a mistake trading Pronger and hoping Niedermayer comes back.

Pronger clearly has shown his desire to stay in socal and Niedermayer has clearly shown his destire to make life difficult for the ducks.

If Pronger signs a reasonable extension, I'd do it and turn the page past the Niedermayer era. He's a great player, but you can't put the entire team in the fate of 1 person.

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Old
05-28-2009, 08:28 PM
  #28
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I believe ANA and PHI may be good trading partners after all in regards to Pronger.

If Pronger is traded, ANA could afford to take back the amount in Pronger's salary ($6.25m) without going over, Even if Scott and Rob Niedermayer are re-signed. However, they would likely have to shed a couple million for 2010-11 when the cap is expected to be about $50m. They could do that by buying out Giguere that year (who would be in his final year). And that's even with Hiller resigned at an estimated $4.5m. Or preferably, they would trade Giguere that year if there is a market for him.

And for PHI, Pronger would be ideal, as they are looking for a final piece to get them over the top next season, before the cap really becomes a problem in 2010-11.

Because Selanne will be done after next season, ANA needs forwards more than d-men as they have a full cupboard of prospects coming through the system (see table below). Beyond the big three young guns, Getzlaf, Perry & Ryan, ANA is pretty shallow (though I like Beleskey). That's why a signed-up Lupul may be attractive to them (again), who would shore up the second line. Randy Jones would also be affordable for ANA. Together those two would be a cap hit of $7m (not to bad a trade-off for Pronger's $6.25m cap hit).

But to make it worthwhile for ANA, PHI would obviously have to include JVR as the marquee asset sent by them. (Sbisa would need to be kept by PHI so he could “replace” Progner in 2010-11.) JVR would spend a year in the AHL and so his ~$1.65 cap hit wouldn't impact until 2010-11 when Jones could come off as a UFA. Some high draft picks would also need to be sent to ANA to offset the negative value of Lupul’s contract.

So I'm thinking this:

To PHI
Pronger 1 yr @ $6.25m

To ANA
JVR @ $1.65m (hitting in 2010-11)
2009 1st Rd Pick
Jones 1 yr @ $2.75m
Lupul 4 yrs @ $4.25m (some negative value)
2010 3rd Rd Pick (negative value off-setter)


ANA payroll table below, includes a Scott Niedermayer re-signed assumption for one more year at current salary; and Rob Niedermayer and Andrew Ebbets for at least two more seasons. Also, most if not all the RFAs are assumed re-signed as well as a couple prospects to ELCs. Projections are indicated by[*]:

Player '10 Cap Hit'11 Cap HitNotes
Forwards
Getzlaf, Ryan5.3255.325
Perry, Corey5.3255.325
Ryan, Bobby1.9224.5*RFA '10
Selanne, Teemu2.625 UFA '10
Ebbett, Andrew0.4871.25*UFA '10
Niedermayer, Rob22*UFA '09
Carter, Ryan0.6250.625
Beleskey, Matt0.6670.667
Miller, Drew0.5250.85*RFA '10
Parros, George0.8750.875
Nokelainen, Petteri0.850.85*RFA '10
Brown, Mike11*RFA '09
Christensen, Erik11*RFA '09
Bodie, Troy0.850.85*RFA '09
Defensemen
Whitney, Ryan44
Wisniewski, James1.51.5*RFA '09
Niedermayer, Scott6.75 UFA '09
Pronger, Chris6.25 UFA '10
Brookbank, Sheldon0.525 UFA '10
Mikkelson, Brendan0.8220.85*RFA '10
Salcido, Brian0.850.85*RFA '09
Mitera, Mark 0.85*ELC
Gardiner, Jake 0.85*ELC
Schultz, Justin 0.85*ELC
Festerling, Brett 0.85*RFA '09
Goalies
Giguere, Jean-Sebastien66
Hiller, Jonas1.34.5*UFA '10
Buy Outs
Bertuzzi, Todd1.3330
Total 53.40646.217
Players 2424 


Last edited by JawandaPuck: 05-29-2009 at 04:10 PM.
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Old
05-28-2009, 08:33 PM
  #29
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LOL no.....

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Old
05-28-2009, 08:37 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
So I'm thinking this:

To PHI
Pronger 1 yr @ $6.25m

To ANA
JVR @ $1.65m (hitting in 2010-11)
2009 1st Rd Pick
Jones 1 yr @ $2.75m
Lupul 4 yrs @ $4.25m (some negative value)
2010 3rd Rd Pick (negative value off-setter)
Swap Lupul and JVR for Gagne, and take out the 1st and Anaheim does this..

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Old
05-28-2009, 08:47 PM
  #31
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Personally, I think Flyer fans are barking up the wrong tree looking at Pronger. Pronger is the player the Capitals need. The Flyers need a goalie far more than a defenseman.

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Old
05-28-2009, 09:11 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Personally, I think Flyer fans are barking up the wrong tree looking at Pronger. Pronger is the player the Capitals need. The Flyers need a goalie far more than a defenseman.
From what I've read most Flyer fans would rather invest in their defense than goalie. I get the belief that they think the goalie is just a nameless cog in their system and unless they have someone like Luongo or Giguere (who they can't afford), who they get matters very little.

I also don't think the capitals will bite for Pronger. Ultimately the uncertainty about him signing an extension will prevent them from moving one of their prized D prospects.

In addition, I don't think the capitals have that top 6 talent to make it work. Fleish and Laich don't seem to solution to the duck's 2nd line problems either and I doubt the capitals would move anyone else.

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Old
05-28-2009, 09:14 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post

So I'm thinking this:

To PHI
Pronger 1 yr @ $6.25m

To ANA
JVR @ $1.65m (hitting in 2010-11)
2009 1st Rd Pick
Jones 1 yr @ $2.75m
Lupul 4 yrs @ $4.25m (some negative value)
2010 3rd Rd Pick (negative value off-setter)
I don't think the ducks will want Lupul considering the length of the deal. Gagne makes much more sense for them.

I also thinking your underestimating what guys on Anaheim get resigned for.

The more I read about JVR, the more I think he'd be someone I'd hold out for. My counter proposal:

To PHI
Pronger
2009 1st Rd Pick

To ANA
Gagne
JVR
2009 1st Rd Pick
Jones (pure salary dump)

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Old
05-28-2009, 09:18 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
Swap Lupul and JVR for Gagne, and take out the 1st and Anaheim does this..
Gagne, Jones, and a 2010 3rd for Pronger? Done.

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Old
05-28-2009, 09:19 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
Personally, I think Flyer fans are barking up the wrong tree looking at Pronger. Pronger is the player the Capitals need. The Flyers need a goalie far more than a defenseman.
We need two goalies, but we don't need to trade for one. Our defense after Timonen, Parent, and sometimes Carle was a much bigger problem than our goaltending. Biron was like the 14th- or 15th-ranked goalie in the league.

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Old
05-28-2009, 09:36 PM
  #36
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Holmgren would be committed if he traded Sbisa in a package for Pronger.

I think people need to watch Sbisa play to realize how good he is for his age. He is a small step behind Doughty and Bogosian, better than Pietrangelo IMO.

A player with his skill and making rookie bank is a commodity in the new NHL.

Philly would be crazy to move him. If Pronger was 30 with three years left on a deal, yes.

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Old
05-28-2009, 10:01 PM
  #37
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Anaheim Gives:
Pronger
'10 First

Philly Gives:
Lupul
Giroux OR JVR
Jones
Conditional '10 First if Pronger resigns (or if they make the finals?)

Too much? Too little? I see the deal as Lupul/Jones being tossed in as salary dumps.

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Old
05-28-2009, 10:07 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury View Post
Gagne, Jones, and a 2010 3rd for Pronger? Done.
Indeed.

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Old
05-28-2009, 11:11 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustafsson View Post
Holmgren would be committed if he traded Sbisa in a package for Pronger.

I think people need to watch Sbisa play to realize how good he is for his age. He is a small step behind Doughty and Bogosian, better than Pietrangelo IMO.

A player with his skill and making rookie bank is a commodity in the new NHL.

Philly would be crazy to move him. If Pronger was 30 with three years left on a deal, yes.
I'm with you, Sbisa is going to be awesome and it would be a real mistake for Holmgren to trade him. Let the Flyers trade forwards away to fill their needs.

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Old
05-29-2009, 12:02 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Anaheim Gives:
Pronger
'10 First

Philly Gives:
Lupul
Giroux OR JVR
Jones
Conditional '10 First if Pronger resigns (or if they make the finals?)

Too much? Too little? I see the deal as Lupul/Jones being tossed in as salary dumps.
Getting REAL close. Personally I'd rather make it Gagne and Nodl instead of Lupul and JVR/Giroux. Probably about equal in value but it makes the salaries work better for us. Pronger + min priced forwards about = Gagne + Jones cap wise. jones and Pronger are both UFA's after the season. Philly most likely won't be able to resign Pronger because of limited cap space so we only get him for 1 year. You get Gagne for 2 years and a good chance to resign him (or at least plan now on saving the cap space to do so). If the flyers make it to the finals then getting Pronger for just one year was worth it and we give up our 1st in 2010. Gagne is about 8 billion tiomes better than any player in either of the 2 other recent Pronger trades so although you aren't getting a lot of questionable young talent, you ARE getting one of the best LWs in the game.

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Old
05-29-2009, 12:40 AM
  #41
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I don't think Ducks want to add any 1st rounders to sweeten the deal.

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Old
05-29-2009, 12:56 AM
  #42
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i think id be okay with gagne nodl jones 1st 09 for pronger and the 1st 09.

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Old
05-29-2009, 01:05 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
This is reasonable.
Of course it is, you get the best player and two first round picks

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Old
05-29-2009, 01:19 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
Of course it is, you get the best player and two first round picks
Sbisa is worth more than a 1st, and the 2nd one is only if he re-signs. I think its reasonable for both teams. Draft picks are completely overrated around here.

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Old
05-29-2009, 01:20 AM
  #45
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To Philly:
Pronger + Logan MacMillan

To Anaheim:
Coburn + JVR + 2nd rounder OR
JVR + Parent + 1st 2009 + conditional 1st 2010 if Proger resigns OR
JVR + Giroux + Parent

IMO a few things get overlooked right now. If Scotty comes back and Pronger gets traded we still need someone on the D. Not just for this year, especially for the season after. Coburn would be the right fit. Beachemin is most likely gone so it would be wise to get a good piece here. A Top 4 of Scotty, Whitney, Wiz, Coburn look fine.

Up in front I really can't see a player on Phillys roster that is available for the ducks. Gagne is too expensive, Lupul not needed and honestly only Carter would be great but he will not be traded.

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05-29-2009, 01:25 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
Sbisa is worth more than a 1st, and the 2nd one is only if he re-signs. I think its reasonable for both teams. Draft picks are completely overrated around here.
Sorry, if he doesnt re-sign. Wish I could edit.

Sbisa is going to be a player...I watched him this year and was impressed.

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Old
05-29-2009, 01:48 AM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus078 View Post
To Philly:
Pronger + Logan MacMillan

To Anaheim:
Coburn + JVR + 2nd rounder OR
JVR + Parent + 1st 2009 + conditional 1st 2010 if Proger resigns OR
JVR + Giroux + Parent

IMO a few things get overlooked right now. If Scotty comes back and Pronger gets traded we still need someone on the D. Not just for this year, especially for the season after. Coburn would be the right fit. Beachemin is most likely gone so it would be wise to get a good piece here. A Top 4 of Scotty, Whitney, Wiz, Coburn look fine.

Up in front I really can't see a player on Phillys roster that is available for the ducks. Gagne is too expensive, Lupul not needed and honestly only Carter would be great but he will not be traded.
Question for ya, pal...How does Philly fit Pronger's salary under our cap by trading the guys to Anaheim that you have us trading?

And no..you would never ever ever ever get any of the packages from Philly you listed.

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Old
05-29-2009, 02:16 AM
  #48
phlocky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus078 View Post
To Philly:
Pronger + Logan MacMillan

To Anaheim:
Coburn + JVR + 2nd rounder OR
JVR + Parent + 1st 2009 + conditional 1st 2010 if Proger resigns OR
JVR + Giroux + Parent


IMO a few things get overlooked right now. If Scotty comes back and Pronger gets traded we still need someone on the D. Not just for this year, especially for the season after. Coburn would be the right fit. Beachemin is most likely gone so it would be wise to get a good piece here. A Top 4 of Scotty, Whitney, Wiz, Coburn look fine.

Up in front I really can't see a player on Phillys roster that is available for the ducks. Gagne is too expensive, Lupul not needed and honestly only Carter would be great but he will not be traded.

You do realize that each one of these are about 8 billion times more in value than what YOU gave up to get Pronger 3 years ago when he was only 30 and had 4 years left on his deal???? Now you want an even BIGGER package than what it cost him for 3 more years on his contract and 3 years younger??? Pronger is still damned good but he's just starting to slip a little, plus he's only got 1 year left on his contract. There is no way in hell 1 year of Pronger is worth anywhere close to that much. Pronger from 3 years ago after just carrying a less Oiler team pretty much alone on his back to the finals couldn't even garner that kind of return. I hope to GOD that Pronger gets traded now because you will be so pissed off when he doesn't get half of this, you are going to be crying that you were robbed. Be honest here, I hope you do see just how rediculous that offer was.

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Old
05-29-2009, 03:07 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Static View Post
Sbisa is worth more than a 1st, and the 2nd one is only if he re-signs. I think its reasonable for both teams. Draft picks are completely overrated around here.
I don't think Sbisa is worth it, especially given Gagnes injury problems

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Old
05-29-2009, 04:11 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JawandaPuck View Post
I believe ANA and PHI may be good trading partners after all in regards to Pronger.

If Pronger is traded, ANA could afford to take back the amount in Pronger's salary ($6.25m) without going over, Even if Scott and Rob Niedermayer are re-signed. However, they would likely have to shed a couple million for 2010-11 when the cap is expected to be about $50m. They could do that by buying out Giguere that year (who would be in his final year). And that's even with Hiller resigned at an estimated $4.5m. Or preferably, they would trade Giguere that year if there is a market for him.

And for PHI, Pronger would be ideal, as they are looking for a final piece to get them over the top next season, before the cap really becomes a problem in 2010-11.

Because Selanne will be done after next season, ANA needs forwards more than d-men as they have a full cupboard of prospects coming through the system (see table below). Beyond the big three young guns, Getzlaf, Perry & Ryan, ANA is pretty shallow (though I like Beleskey). That's why a signed-up Lupul may be attractive to them (again), who would shore up the second line. Randy Jones would also be affordable for ANA. Together those two would be a cap hit of $7m (not to bad a trade-off for Pronger's $6.25m cap hit).

But to make it worthwhile for ANA, PHI would obviously have to include JVR as the marquee asset sent by them. (Sbisa would need to be kept by PHI so he could “replace” Progner in 2010-11.) JVR would spend a year in the AHL and so his ~$1.65 cap hit wouldn't impact until 2010-11 when Jones could come off as a UFA. Some high draft picks would also need to be sent to ANA to offset the negative value of Lupul’s contract.

So I'm thinking this:

To PHI
Pronger 1 yr @ $6.25m

To ANA
JVR @ $1.65m (hitting in 2010-11)
2009 1st Rd Pick
Jones 1 yr @ $2.75m
Lupul 4 yrs @ $4.25m (some negative value)
2010 3rd Rd Pick (negative value off-setter)


ANA payroll table below, includes a Scott Niedermayer re-signed assumption for one more year at current salary; and Rob Niedermayer and Andrew Ebbets for at least two more seasons. Also, most if not all the RFAs are assumed re-signed as well as a couple prospects to ELCs. Projections are indicated by[*]:

Player '10 Cap Hit'11 Cap HitNotes
Forwards
Getzlaf, Ryan5.3255.325
Perry, Corey5.3255.325
Ryan, Bobby1.9224.5RFA '10
Selanne, Teemu2.625 UFA '10
Ebbett, Andrew0.4871.25*UFA '10
Niedermayer, Rob22*UFA '09
Carter, Ryan0.6250.625
Beleskey, Matt0.6670.667
Miller, Drew0.5250.85*RFA '10
Parros, George0.8750.875
Nokelainen, Petteri0.850.85*RFA '10
Brown, Mike11*RFA '09
Christensen, Erik11*RFA '09
Bodie, Troy0.850.85*RFA '09
Defensemen
Whitney, Ryan44
Wisniewski, James1.51.5*RFA '09
Niedermayer, Scott6.75 UFA '09
Pronger, Chris6.25 UFA '10
Brookbank, Sheldon0.525 UFA '10
Mikkelson, Brendan0.8220.85*RFA '10
Salcido, Brian0.850.85*RFA '09
Mitera, Mark 0.85ELC???
Gardiner, Jake 0.85*ELC
Schultz, Justin 0.85*ELC
Festerling, Brett 0.85*RFA '09
Goalies
Giguere, Jean-Sebastien66
Hiller, Jonas1.34.5*UFA '10
Buy Outs
Bertuzzi, Todd1.3330
Total 53.40646.217
Players 2424 
NO!!!!!!!!

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