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Old
05-28-2009, 10:32 PM
  #26
piqued
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I'd certainly think about it from a Stars' POV as I'm a fan of both Streit's game and his contract. I'd still probably rather have the two picks but it's not a bad proposal at all.

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Old
05-28-2009, 11:51 PM
  #27
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I'd have to think about it from a Dallas perspective, but the proposal is absolutely brutal for the Isles and a steal for Tampa Bay.

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Old
05-29-2009, 12:20 AM
  #28
danishh
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why not just do this with tampa?

To Tampa: Streit, 1st '10, 1st (SJ via OTT #26)
To NYI: Hedman

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Old
05-29-2009, 07:53 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
why not just do this with tampa?

To Tampa: Streit, 1st '10, 1st (SJ via OTT #26)
To NYI: Hedman
I wouldn't do that as an Isles fan. Hedman is a good prospect but lets not pretend he's Lindros. I'm not prepared to give up our all-star defenseman (the only good defenseman on our team actually) AND a realistic shot at Hall next year AND a 1st rounder this year which we may actually use to move up in the draft. Hedman is a good prospect and I'd take him in a heartbeat. But this is a lateral move IMO. I am very very reluctant to give up Streit at all considering the state of our D. And seeing as how we will likely be horrible this year again, that 2010 pick is too valuable. Seems like a Tampa rip off to me

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Old
05-29-2009, 10:50 AM
  #30
isles31
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Originally Posted by JT 91 NYI View Post
I think it makes lots of sense for all 3 teams but you know the people on these boards. They want their team to get twice what they give up and flame everyone else's trades.
well if you look at the deal...the isles get the 2 from tampa...and to tampa goes the isles 1st rd next yr(you acknowledge its top 5 probably)...so that is pretty even. Then, Streit and the boston 2nd go to dallas for the stars 2nd. that doesnt really even out imo. the isles get a better 2nd rd pick, but already have 2 better than it. so streit is worth a slight upgrade in the 2nd round? am i not seeing something? and if im not, can u elaborate please

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Old
05-29-2009, 11:18 AM
  #31
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I would do either trade from the Stars' perspective, Mark Streit is one of the top defenceman in the league - in fact I think it was a joke he wasn't nominated for the norris. 55 pts +9 on the Islanders? Mike Green would have been approximatly -30 on long Island.

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Old
05-29-2009, 11:44 AM
  #32
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This is brutal for the Isles

Isles give up
Streit
First 2010 (likely lottery)
Second 2009 (57)

for

First 2009 (Hedman)
Second 2009 (38)

so Isles give up Streit, who was their best player this year, and hope that they improve on a last placed team, so that they don't get ass ***** by giving up #1 overall 2010, Streit and 2009 #57 for Hedman and #38.....which then would equate to trading up 20 spots in the SECOND round for Streit (who, by the way, did I mention is by far the Isles best player)

Tampa makes out like bandits in this deal
Isles wanted two first last year for #5.....didn't come close (a 2nd and a 2nd/3rd), so Tampa gets TWO first for #2, and one a guaranteed top 10 and the other a likely top 5 (if top 5 is too ambitious, top 14 then, or at worst #30 if by some miracle of miracle the Isles win the Cup). Almost as bad as the Schenn AND #7 for #2 props.

The Dallas portion is fair enough I guess
Streit for #8 and a twenty spot drop in 2nd round.

This is my first reponse on the trade prop. board....maybe I'm wrong, but rebuilding teams shouldn't enter trades where there is a good probability that they come up the loser in the deal. There are a few moron GM's around the league (and some on TV, not to name names), that specialize in ruining rebuilding teams rebuild plans by hedging the future with fingers crossed that the deal will work out instead of coming back to bite them in the ass!

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Old
05-29-2009, 11:56 AM
  #33
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Only one point to this deal from Isle's perspective: shed salary in preparation to sell the Isles. The selling point: attractive young assets. Do you know something we don't? If so you could cut to the chase and give a legitimate source.

A bunch of obvious problems: Hedman will have to figure the game out all out by himself. It'll discourage a free agent from signing, so don't expect to sign another. You'll piss off Hunter and Witt. You'll isolate Gervais. Might as well trade them too.

The most obvious: think how historically bad the Isles would have been without Streit.

I guess Tavares, Hedman, and Okposo are going to reinvent the wheel with either no veteran presence, or a disgruntled veteran presence. Those are both recipes for disaster.

This is one of those ideas that completely disregards the fact that GMs build hockey teams, not collections of talent.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
05-29-2009, 12:22 PM
  #34
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In the long run, Hedman will likely be a Norris Trophy candidate every year. A 50+ point producer and solid as a rock defensively. I think he can step in immediately and put up over 30 points. Add this 2nd rounder to the mix and we are in even better position to move up from in the 1st Round, maybe moving up high enough to nab Jordan Schroeder or Ryan Ellis. It's a bit of a risk for the Isles but they can also use the Streit money to throw at a big free agent or 2. I realize the Island is a tough sell right now but we will have more cap space than anybody.

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Old
05-29-2009, 12:26 PM
  #35
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Let's say DiPietro comes back and we sign Craig Anderson, KO puts up 60+ points, Tavares does his thing and Hedman turns out to be what we all think he will. Either way our goaltending has vastly improved, and our offense is much better.

The Isles won't have anywhere near the worst record in hockey. Maybe 5th or 6th worst?

Tampa ends up with say...the 5th pick and drafts Brandon Gormley, after using the 8th pick in 2009 to take Nazem Kadri. Wouldn't you trade those 2 for Hedman anyway?

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Old
05-29-2009, 12:45 PM
  #36
Chapin Landvogt
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Interesting deal.

Gotta admit, I've got a huge mancrush on Streit and feel he's the best Dman we've had in QUITE some time.

He's got an affordable deal and he's scheduled to be here another 4 years.

I think he may very well be one of the top 10 Dmen in the NHL right now.

Trading him, next year's 1st and a late 2nd

for

the 09 2nd and the 38th???

Wow, I don't know if we'd really be doing ourselves any favors with this move.

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Old
05-29-2009, 12:57 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT 91 NYI View Post
To Dallas:
Mark Streit
2nd Round Pick Boston (57th)

To Tampa:
1st Round Pick Dallas (8th)
1st Round Pick NYI (2010)

To Islanders:
1st Round Pick Tampa (2nd)
2nd Round Pick Dallas (38th)
As an Isles fan I feel completely violated by this proposal. My hinee hurts.

To make matters worse, it was proposed by an Isles fan.

Oye-vey.

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Old
05-29-2009, 01:44 PM
  #38
Dan-o16
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Originally Posted by JT 91 NYI View Post
In the long run, Hedman will likely be a Norris Trophy candidate every year. A 50+ point producer and solid as a rock defensively. I think he can step in immediately and put up over 30 points. Add this 2nd rounder to the mix and we are in even better position to move up from in the 1st Round, maybe moving up high enough to nab Jordan Schroeder or Ryan Ellis. It's a bit of a risk for the Isles but they can also use the Streit money to throw at a big free agent or 2. I realize the Island is a tough sell right now but we will have more cap space than anybody.
Right. You identify a free agent - Streit. Sign him, he excels. Then trade him for prospects. And then expect to sign more free agents. that's not a risk... That's draft-hype-induced hysteria.

If you really think Hedman will be 50+ point producer and rock-solid - in other words a top 5 overall NHL defender for years, there's an obvious move: draft him. If he turns out to be all that, the Isles will be fine, even without John Tavares.

BTW, is that you Mike Milbury?

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
05-29-2009, 01:48 PM
  #39
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win.

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Old
05-29-2009, 02:18 PM
  #40
islandersbob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT 91 NYI View Post
Let's say DiPietro comes back and we sign Craig Anderson, KO puts up 60+ points, Tavares does his thing and Hedman turns out to be what we all think he will. Either way our goaltending has vastly improved, and our offense is much better.

The Isles won't have anywhere near the worst record in hockey. Maybe 5th or 6th worst?

Tampa ends up with say...the 5th pick and drafts Brandon Gormley, after using the 8th pick in 2009 to take Nazem Kadri. Wouldn't you trade those 2 for Hedman anyway?
That's alot that has to go right for the Isles just to finish 5th or 6th worst in the league. The offense would go from anemic to slightly less anemic. The defense on the other hand, would go from blowing chunks to being epicly bad.

A top seven of Witt, Sutton, Martinek, Gervais, Meyer, Hedman, and Hillen just SCREAMS disaster. Two are almost guaranteed to miss 1/2 the season between them. Witt may or may not have lost a step. Meyer, Gervais, and Hillen may or may not be everyday NHL regular defensemen. Added to that is DP is injury prone and could miss significant time with the slightest tweak. Even a 100% DP isn't going to be able to save that defense.

Hedman and Tavares may turn out to be great players, but when they do, if the Isles get them both, the cost to the franchise would have been too steep. In my opinion trading away an All-star 50+ point defenseman locked up long term AND a high (probable) draft pick is too much to gamble on a guy who hasn't played an NHL game yet. I'm not even sure if I would trade this package for E. Johnson, Doughty or Bogosian (and those guys have already had solid rookie NHL campaigns and they all project to be as good or better than Hedman).

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Old
05-29-2009, 03:00 PM
  #41
SERE 24
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Actually if you read through the deal, Tampa trades the 2nd overall pick, for the 1st overall pick and 8th overall pick. I am pretty sure they would do it.
The reading comprehension on display in this thread is well beyond pathetic. This deal obviously makes NO sense if the Islanders are giving up the #1 overall pick in 2009 AND Mark Streit in order to receive the #2 overall pick in 2009 and a 2nd rounder. With that in mind, why not actually READ (rather than skim) the proposal?

Once you do that you will see that the Islanders trade their 1st in 2010 (not yet determined) and Mark Streit and in return receive the #2 overall in 2009 and a 2nd rounder. Basically the Islanders trade their 1st in 2010 and Mark Streit for Victor Hedman. Since they DO NOT give up the #1 overall pick, they end up with Tavares and Hedman, and you can see why they might consider doing that.

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Old
05-29-2009, 03:03 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
well if you look at the deal...the isles get the 2 from tampa...and to tampa goes the isles 1st rd next yr(you acknowledge its top 5 probably)...so that is pretty even. Then, Streit and the boston 2nd go to dallas for the stars 2nd. that doesnt really even out imo. the isles get a better 2nd rd pick, but already have 2 better than it. so streit is worth a slight upgrade in the 2nd round? am i not seeing something? and if im not, can u elaborate please

Yes, you are missing something.

The Dallas 1st rounder this year goes to Tampa. Since nobody here seems to be able to understand a simple three-way deal, picture it this way:

The Islanders trade Streit for Dallas' 1st AND 2nd in 09, and then trade Dallas' 1st to Tampa (along with their own 1st in 2010) to acquire the #2 overall in this year's draft. The return for Streit is not just a 2nd; it's the Dallas 1st and 2nd in '09.

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Old
05-29-2009, 03:28 PM
  #43
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As an Isles fan I feel completely violated by this proposal. My hinee hurts.

To make matters worse, it was proposed by an Isles fan.

Oye-vey.
It really isn't that bad of a proposal guy. It may need some tweaking and I realize the Isles are giving up a lot, but how exciting would it be to have Hedman and Tavares on the ice together in blue and orange. You have a counter proposal? I'd love to hear it.

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Old
05-29-2009, 03:31 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
Interesting deal.

Gotta admit, I've got a huge mancrush on Streit and feel he's the best Dman we've had in QUITE some time.

He's got an affordable deal and he's scheduled to be here another 4 years.

I think he may very well be one of the top 10 Dmen in the NHL right now.

Trading him, next year's 1st and a late 2nd

for

the 09 2nd and the 38th???

Wow, I don't know if we'd really be doing ourselves any favors with this move.
I agree that maybe we can do better than the 8th pick and a swap of 2nd rounders for Streit. I watched him play all year and you're right, he's the best defenseman we've had, probably since Denis Potvin if you think about it. I wouldn't want to see him go but the reality is to make a deal like this happen, he is one of our most valuable trade assets.

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Old
05-29-2009, 04:16 PM
  #45
Dan-o16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JT 91 NYI View Post
It really isn't that bad of a proposal guy. It may need some tweaking and I realize the Isles are giving up a lot, but how exciting would it be to have Hedman and Tavares on the ice together in blue and orange. You have a counter proposal? I'd love to hear it.
It *is* that bad of a proposal. Who cares about weighing value when the entire idea is fundamentally misguided?

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
05-29-2009, 06:28 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
It *is* that bad of a proposal. Who cares about weighing value when the entire idea is fundamentally misguided?

Cheers,

Dan-o
No. It *ISN'T* You don't like the trade and that's your opinion. Others do. You've stated that you don't think it's a good trade, but you don't know everything in the universe and neither do I.

It's pretty easy to come on here and bash everyone else's ideas but a shame that you have none of your own.

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Old
05-29-2009, 09:21 PM
  #47
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a pretty smug little proposer aren't we?

silly deal in general... tampa might do it if they don't like either tavares or hedman. islanders might do it if they don't like anyone projected next year, and dallas might do it if they really really like streit..

or, islanders get both players they want to rebuild with, tampa could get 2 top 5 picks next year, and dallas could replace zubov (even if he plays again) with a very good dman...


meh, won't happen

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Old
05-29-2009, 09:42 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalchkin71 View Post
Yes, you are missing something.

The Dallas 1st rounder this year goes to Tampa. Since nobody here seems to be able to understand a simple three-way deal, picture it this way:

The Islanders trade Streit for Dallas' 1st AND 2nd in 09, and then trade Dallas' 1st to Tampa (along with their own 1st in 2010) to acquire the #2 overall in this year's draft. The return for Streit is not just a 2nd; it's the Dallas 1st and 2nd in '09.
The Islanders aren't getting Dallas' 1st rounder, so no, the return for Streit does not include Dallas' 1st. It is exactly as he says (though I disagree that the Islanders 2010 balances out the 2009 2nd overall). What you list is what Dallas is moving for Streit, but it sure isn't what he's returning in the trade.

Though, as an Islanders fan, if Dallas was down with this, I'd rather just take the 8th and the pick upgrade for Streit and call it a day. There will still be some excellent prospects at #8 and I have no interest in moving our 2010 1st rounder.


Last edited by Seph: 05-29-2009 at 09:51 PM.
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Old
05-30-2009, 12:18 AM
  #49
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if i read this right, ( which i wouldnt bet on.......its been a long beer drinking day/night )

the islanders give up streit, bostons second rounder this year ( #57 ) and their own first rounder in 2010.

in exchange for, tampas first rounder this year ( #2 OVER ALL ) and dallas second rounder this year #38.

did i read it right or am i missing something?

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Old
05-30-2009, 12:44 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by bones21212 View Post
if i read this right, ( which i wouldnt bet on.......its been a long beer drinking day/night )

the islanders give up streit, bostons second rounder this year ( #57 ) and their own first rounder in 2010.

in exchange for, tampas first rounder this year ( #2 OVER ALL ) and dallas second rounder this year #38.

did i read it right or am i missing something?
You got it.

Isles do ok with this proposal. Any proposal where you walk away with Hedman (without giving up Tavares) can't be that bad.

If any team gets crushed here, it's Tampa. They go from having one of the top 2 defensive prospects in a decade (I'm an Erik Johnson fan) to having the 8th overall and an uncertain pick in 2010. That pick could be 10th overall, for all we know. The Isles will have Dipietro back, and Tavares can make an immediate impact.

The proposer clearly wants Hedman and Tavares, so lets try something more direct that would have more appeal to Tampa.

Tampa gives NYIsles: 2nd overall

NYIsles give Tampa: Streit, 2nd 2009, 1st 2010.

Hedman could be a 1st overall in a number of drafts, including this one. You have to pay mightily for that.

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