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Toronto - St Louis

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Old
05-31-2009, 12:56 AM
  #51
rumrokh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
I don't know. Are Colaiacovo, Polak, and Mckee really that good that you don't need a top pairing guy like Kaberle?
Polak is great, even being a rookie he was probably the best defenseman on the team. And Colaiacovo played very well. McKee played well down the stretch, but basically the whole team did.

I, personally, would be glad to have Kaberle, but the Blues are 1. already overstocked at D, and 2. are not yet in a position to be trading future for present. They just made the playoffs and were swept. The team as a whole relies a lot more on the development of their youngsters at this point. Adding Kaberle wouldn't be a move to "put them over the top," but rather, a move to get them closer. By the time they're ready to contend, maybe Cole and their first rounder would be on the team and they could fill Kaberle's theoretical spot with a free agent signing.

If they made this trade, I wouldn't complain, but there would have to be more trades coming to free up salary and spots at D. I think they're ready to move prospects and picks for more immediate help, but this kind of move doesn't sound like the team's m.o. lately. It's a lot of wheeling and dealing for a team that's on the rise from within.

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Old
05-31-2009, 01:16 AM
  #52
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I would do it but I doubt St. Louis would.

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05-31-2009, 01:50 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
You're right, lets trade the #7 straight up for the #24th!

Yeah, the player in those spots could be as good as Kaberle, but the likeliness of the Leafs picking that talent is slim.
who was talking about the leafs 7th pick, and why would you even make that comment. the guy was just saying dont under value a 16th overall pick, look at jeff carter mike richard. getzlaf. perry. they were all mid to late picks aswell.

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05-31-2009, 01:55 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by mmitchell19 View Post
Of course Kabs would immediately supplant any of those guys on our back line. But we're also paying ~$16m in cap hit to Brewer, McKee, EJ and Jax. It'd be awfully tough to add another $4m+ cap hit back there without giving salary back to TO...specifically one of the bigger contracts like McKee or Jax (ideally Brew, but I highly doubt Burke would bite on that).
If the blues are serious about winning it wouldn't be a terrible idea to bury one of the guys in the minors.

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05-31-2009, 04:51 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by AndreaBargnani View Post
If the blues are serious about winning it wouldn't be a terrible idea to bury one of the guys in the minors.
I don't think you understand, the Blues cannot afford that. They don't have unlimited funds like the Maple Leafs.

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Old
05-31-2009, 09:29 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by wayne98 View Post
who was talking about the leafs 7th pick, and why would you even make that comment. the guy was just saying dont under value a 16th overall pick, look at jeff carter mike richard. getzlaf. perry. they were all mid to late picks aswell.
Those are all atypical mid-round picks, and they all came from a freakish draft. I don't think a mid-round pick has ever been undervalued on these boards.

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Old
05-31-2009, 10:53 AM
  #57
1927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueBeard View Post
Yes Pronger would be worth the extra assets or price in salary in St. Louis. The casual fans still love him and getting him back would instantly right a massive wrong in their eyes. I cannot even begin to imagine the buzz it would have in the offseason around town and tickets would get sold right and left. While St. Louis is a good hockey market we still are recovering and rebuilding the fan base after gutting the team and the years of lousy on ice performance. Not every team has the luxury of selling out at high prices even during a rebuilding process.

Why exactly should St. Louis be taking notes from LA? That comment is just way off base. St. Louis has a good group of vets surrounding the kids as it is. Are they superstars? No but they are quality vets that fit in nicely with the young talent we have. It was that combination that got the Blues in the playoffs this year despite the injuries. It will be that same combination that lets the Blues compete for a spot next year.

Is it just me or do most Kaberle threads sound like some infomercial trying to sell the guy? Maybe the leafs need to hire Billy Mays or the Sham-wow guy this offseason to peddle the guy off.
No one can argue the impact of Chris Pronger on their team. He is a bread winner and would be any welcome addition to the St. Louis Blues. You are correct in the fact he would help bring back the casual fans back into the arena for more seat sales, but this is no guarantee.

John Davidson better hope that Chris Pronger would help generate more ticket sales because that extra money used on Chris Pronger without any substantial seat sales would not bode well. I am sure Pronger would be able to help in ticket sales, we just donít know how much it will help out.

The comment about the comparison to Los Angeles has to be looked at realistically. Both teams are at the top in young talent in the entire NHL, along with Columbus. At some point, Columbus, Los Angeles, and St. Louis would need some quality veteran help to compliment their young stars.

The injuries to St. Louis players this year was hurtful to the team, yet they still made the playoffs. This does show resilience on the part of the Blues. However, the situation with injured players seriously needs to be fixed, as injured players do not help teams win championships for the long term.

A playoff choker and rental veteran like Keith Tkachuk will not help younger Blues develop a winning attitude. The declining and sporadically injured Paul Kariya will not help younger players to become winners. Andy McDonald cannot help with his veteran presence when he is injured half the season for the last three years. Brad Boyes is the only player at 27 years old that shows a winning attitude by his play on the ice. Dan Hinote realistically does not bring a lot to the table for youngsters either. After the forward core group of veterans, the defense core of Brewer, Jackman, and McKee are not the best players to exhibit quality puck moving skills to the forwards.

Young talent needs to develop winning attitudes and this helps by bringing in veterans with playoff experience. Chris Pronger would be an excellent addition, but would cost the team more in dollars if traded or signed for. This is something John Davidson will have to seriously look at, and I am not saying Chris Pronger should never be considered.

Pronger would help the Blues greatly, but at the same time it would cost more money to bring in Pronger and this is something ownership would have to seriously consider in paying his salary. It was pointed out St. Louis does not have the luxury to sell out games every night like the Leafs, and this is why ownership would have to seriously consider paying Pronger the extra money to play with the Blues.

As for Tomas Kaberle, it does not matter if he is traded or not. There is no "selling" of Kaberle or infomercial being created from Leafs fans. Leafs fans just simply point out the asset a player like Kaberle can bring to another fan bases team, and the possible cost to acquiring this player. Not every fan from the Western Conference teams understands players from the Eastern Conference and their value to a team. It is merely being discussed what Kaberle can bring to the table, nothing more than that.

If Chris Pronger is the exact asset John Davidson is looking for, then all the power to him and the ownership group willing to bring back a winner in Pronger. In fact, this is something St. Louis should seriously consider, and hope the risk pays off. Sometimes the biggest risks made is the highest reward for any team, and if this is something St. Louis is willing to take on then of course they should seriously consider it. Kaberle just brings another option and dimension to the whole decision making process in getting a quality defenseman for St. Louis.


Last edited by 1927: 05-31-2009 at 11:04 AM.
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Old
05-31-2009, 01:22 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Oscar the Grouch View Post
I don't think you understand, the Blues cannot afford that. They don't have unlimited funds like the Maple Leafs.
Then they can do what Jersey did. Trade a large salary player and include draft picks so somebody will take on his salary.

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Old
05-31-2009, 02:42 PM
  #59
nuck
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Originally Posted by mmitchell19 View Post
This seems like excellent value (on the verge of "steal"-type value) for the Blues, but where the heck do they put ANOTHER defenseman?

EJ (if he's not our #1 at the start of the year, he will be by the end)
Brewer (assuming recovery from his back injury)
Jackman
Colaiacovo
McKee
Polak (assuming he's at least qualified, if not extended)
Pietrangelo (no way we sent him back to Niagara again)
Junland (AHL All-Star)
Strachan (most likely AHL depth, but availed himself pretty well in the bigs this yr)
Wagner (RFA)
Not counting Woywitka/Wagner (UFA's)
Both Brewer and McKee are only signed for one more season right? If I am the Blues I want Brewer gone somehow. -14 in 28 games. Yipes that is Jack Johnson country!
I am sure the Leafs could be convinced to sweeten the pot with Stempniak

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Old
05-31-2009, 02:48 PM
  #60
grabo84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nuck View Post
Both Brewer and McKee are only signed for one more season right? If I am the Blues I want Brewer gone somehow. -14 in 28 games. Yipes that is Jack Johnson country!
I am sure the Leafs could be convinced to sweeten the pot with Stempniak
Brewer's signed for two more years, so that might be a tough sell. McKee is more likely to go back in a deal.

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Old
05-31-2009, 02:56 PM
  #61
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sorry but the trade is garbage. would not do it.

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Old
05-31-2009, 03:22 PM
  #62
nuck
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Brewer's signed for two more years, so that might be a tough sell. McKee is more likely to go back in a deal.
McKee has been much better in the last two years IMO. I can't see the Blues being as interested in moving him.

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Old
05-31-2009, 03:25 PM
  #63
grabo84
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Originally Posted by nuck View Post
McKee has been much better in the last two years IMO. I can't see the Blues being as interested in moving him.
Yeah, no doubt. Brewer's pretty much into negative value territory if this continues and he can't be put on LTIR.

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Old
05-31-2009, 06:57 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1927 View Post
A playoff choker and rental veteran like Keith Tkachuk will not help younger Blues develop a winning attitude. The declining and sporadically injured Paul Kariya will not help younger players to become winners. Andy McDonald cannot help with his veteran presence when he is injured half the season for the last three years. Brad Boyes is the only player at 27 years old that shows a winning attitude by his play on the ice. Dan Hinote realistically does not bring a lot to the table for youngsters either. After the forward core group of veterans, the defense core of Brewer, Jackman, and McKee are not the best players to exhibit quality puck moving skills to the forwards.
You're embarassing yourself.

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