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Jake Gardiner to Toronto?

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Old
05-31-2009, 09:00 PM
  #26
Vipers31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Perhaps I didn't phrase my last sentence in that post quite as well as I could have.

It juat seemed to me that after the Whitney acquisition at the trade deadline that the Ducks were in a "win now" mode and that they could now use a younger guy like Stralman to help them get there.

Perhaps I was wrong in that assumption.
Yes and no. Around the deadline you could see the Ducks weren't thinking in the two dimensions of "rebuild" vs "win now". They felt some changes were due and needed to be made and they did so. Whitney's addition was a necessary move as they had the grand total of one defenseman (Pronger) signed for the 09-10 campaign at the time, so adding a defenseman under contract was a major concern. At the deadline they also added Wisniewski in return for Sami Pahlsson and two nice prospects from the Sharks for Travis Moen and Kent Huskins - if they were only focussing on a deep run right now, those are trades they probably would not have done. The Ducks are not trying to somehow squeeze in another run within some alleged "cup window" (a term I don't like very much), they try to be able to address needs while looking to stay competetive in the long run.

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Old
05-31-2009, 09:04 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
What the hell has that to do with anything? I'm not a huge fan of Kaberle, but he's a good defenseman. His contract is decent. Redden's - not so much.
We can afford neither. You think being a good d-man is reason enough to want someone, Redden is a good D-man.

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Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Of course I do and I never said anything contrary. But if (and at this point I better remind - again - of the fact that I would not do the trade...) the Ducks were looking at a player to replace Niedermayer, there would not be many options. Hell, there would be basically no option to replace Niedermayer without a huge downgrade unless one lives in a dreamworld and believes we could sign Bouwmeester for what the market is going to get him. Even with him...
It it very much in doubt whether we can afford both Nieds and Pronger next year. For some reason, i prefer Pronger to Kaberle as a Nieds replacement. As i do Whitney for that matter, and we already traded for him.

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Yes, I am pretty sure we won't trade for a defenseman. But that is because I am pretty confident Scotty is going to be back. That is a belief and may be saying more than Scott knows himself at this very moment. It's not ridiculous for fans around the league to believe that he indeed might retire after he thought about doing so for a very long time before, and that the Ducks, a team that has been built from their defense, might be looking for a defenseman to fill the gap. Of course, Kaberle is not even close to Niedermayer. But one could very easily get the idea.
Who cares what fans around the league think? The person i asked the "thoughtless question" is a Ducks fan who should know about our situation but was still willing to gut our future for a package we don't need.

I didn't ask you why would we want those players. I asked from another who would trade a lot of future for them. There's no need to remind me about your stance about that trade, i don't give a ****.

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05-31-2009, 09:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
We can afford neither. You think being a good d-man is reason enough to want someone, Redden is a good D-man.
That depends on a lot of decisions that are to be made. Will Scotty be back, will the Ducks decide to enter the Beauchemin bidding which would see him getting paid more than he's worth.

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Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
It it very much in doubt whether we can afford both Nieds and Pronger next year. For some reason, i prefer Pronger to Kaberle as a Nieds replacement. As i do Whitney for that matter, and we already traded for him.
Of course, they work better as a replacement, because we don't need to trade for them. We can just keep the assets it would take. That's obviously better. However, if Scotty retired and Beauch left (which seems very probable), we were left with only Pronger, Whitney, Wisniewski, Brookbank and our prospects. One of those should be able to fill the #5 (Brookbank being the #6) role, but we would most definitely need a #2-4 guy. You may be able to find one of those via free agency. But that's when the market is going more than a little crazy at times and you might be looking at different options.

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Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
Who cares what fans around the league think? The person i asked the "thoughtless question" is a Ducks fan who should know about our situation but was still willing to gut our future for a package we don't need.
That's my and your opinion. Assuming Scotty and Beauch will be gone (which is not exactly crazy) one may very well end up with a different conclusion.

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Originally Posted by Talentless Practise View Post
There's no need to remind me about your stance about that trade, i don't give a ****.
I could hardly care less. I will remind you of what I believe you should be thinking about whenever I feel it's appropriate.

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Old
05-31-2009, 09:24 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Abyss View Post
to base everything around their HF grades is pretty silly. And the fact they are roughly the same size isn't a great thing for Stralman considering Gardiner is 4 years younger...more time to put on the size.

Besides, Stralman tried to put on some weight...and it hurt his game. Wasn't as quick, couldn't make the plays he should be able to.

I think how big he is now is roughly what he'll be, which is too bad because besides the cannon shot and decent passing he's going to get pushed around a lot in his own end.

Gardiner is an excellent prospect, great wheels, great shot and great offensive skills. He's also at a great school that will teach him defense.

I'd be shocked if Anaheim considered this trade.
As to the first bolded part, I didn't base everything solely off of the HF rating. I only used it as a starting-point.

As to Stralman's attempts to get stronger, he probably just wasn't used to playing at a heavier weight, all the while trying to adjust to the NHL game, which he was rushed into by the previous managment regime. He just wasn't ready for the NHL at the time. Stralman has since played much better in the AHL this past season.

As to the second bolded part, you may be right; but you may also be wrong. We shall see come training-camp time as to who is in better shape at that point in time than they were to start last season.

And the part about Gardiner, you're probably spot-on.


Last edited by EucaLEAFtys: 06-01-2009 at 11:01 PM.
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Old
05-31-2009, 09:50 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipers31 View Post
Yes and no. Around the deadline you could see the Ducks weren't thinking in the two dimensions of "rebuild" vs "win now". They felt some changes were due and needed to be made and they did so. Whitney's addition was a necessary move as they had the grand total of one defenseman (Pronger) signed for the 09-10 campaign at the time, so adding a defenseman under contract was a major concern. At the deadline they also added Wisniewski in return for Sami Pahlsson and two nice prospects from the Sharks for Travis Moen and Kent Huskins - if they were only focussing on a deep run right now, those are trades they probably would not have done. The Ducks are not trying to somehow squeeze in another run within some alleged "cup window" (a term I don't like very much), they try to be able to address needs while looking to stay competetive in the long run.
All Valid points.

Even with the new prospects from the San Jose deal, if a Gardiner-Stralman swap were to occur, Stralman would likely end up simply replacing Gardiner at the top of the list and could also help the Ducks for a very long time.

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Old
05-31-2009, 09:51 PM
  #31
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By the sounds of it your looking for a forward.. so...

To Anaheim: Alexei Ponikarovsky, Jiri Tlusty
To Toronto: Jake Gardiner, Brian Salcido/Brendan Mikkelson

You pick up a player who is fresh off a 60 point season. He's fairly young at 28, and is signed for one more year at 2 million. He didn't have a ton of icetime... or great linemates to play with. He isn't very physical but he's fast for a bigman, and can work the boards pretty well.

Tlusty got a PPg at the AHL lvl. A great prospect and has potential to be the next Bobby Ryan. (Likely not going to happen though).

In return we get a potential Stud defencman, and another defender that could turn out to be quite a player.

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Old
05-31-2009, 10:29 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Hntrmn View Post
By the sounds of it your looking for a forward.. so...

To Anaheim: Alexei Ponikarovsky, Jiri Tlusty
To Toronto: Jake Gardiner, Brian Salcido/Brendan Mikkelson

You pick up a player who is fresh off a 60 point season. He's fairly young at 28, and is signed for one more year at 2 million. He didn't have a ton of icetime... or great linemates to play with. He isn't very physical but he's fast for a bigman, and can work the boards pretty well.

Tlusty got a PPg at the AHL lvl. A great prospect and has potential to be the next Bobby Ryan. (Likely not going to happen though).

In return we get a potential Stud defencman, and another defender that could turn out to be quite a player.
Why would the Leafs give up Tlusty when he is the best forward prospect they have? If anything, they're better off sending Stralman, instead of Tlusty, as a replacement for Gardiner in this deal you're proposing.

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Old
06-01-2009, 12:24 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hntrmn View Post
So... Umm... Whats good value?

Maybe:
To Anaheim: Tomas Kaberle, Jiri Tlusty
To Toronto: Jake Gardiner, 1st 09, Josh Brittain

You really dislike Tlusty, eh?

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Old
06-01-2009, 11:51 AM
  #34
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I don't see a trade with Gardiner happening. Even if the Ducks lose 2 defensemen this offseason, they still have a logjam of NHL and near NHL ready D prospects waiting for a shot. They can and will take their time with Gardiner.

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Old
06-01-2009, 02:06 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
You really dislike Tlusty, eh?
I dont dislike Tlusty at all...

Anaheim will want a top prospect for their top prospect... and Stralman wouldn't meet their needs.

Just trying to make a fair proposal. Thats all .

I like Tlusty, but I don't see him in Burkes plans for very long... thats why I always include him in Trades. (Same goes with Stajan, Ponikarovsky, Kaberle and a few others).

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Old
06-01-2009, 06:48 PM
  #36
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Let's see how Tlusty actually performs next year with the Leafs before dishing him out in every single one of your Leaf proposals...

He looked terrific last year, I have no idea why Burke would want to get rid of a talent like Jiri.

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