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Jordan Staal to Toronto.

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Old
05-31-2009, 01:42 PM
  #26
SomeDude
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In the event that the Pens decided Staal would have to become a cap casualty, I'm pretty sure there would be several offers out there better than this one.

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05-31-2009, 01:43 PM
  #27
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So we downgrade Staal to pick up a mid first rounder next year?? Whats the point? In any potential Staal deal (or really any deal for tha matter) we need good, young guys that can play now and can stay for the long term.

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05-31-2009, 01:44 PM
  #28
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Cross posting this from another thread.

Quote:
Allow me to recap a recent conversation with an NHL executive, who shall remain nameless at his request:

RR: Forget Sidney Crosby. He stays. If you could pick one player off the Penguins to add to your team, who would you pick?

NHL guy: Jordan Staal.

RR: That was quick.

NHL guy: What have other guys said?

RR: You're the first one I've asked.

NHL guy: I bet a lot of them say Staal.

RR: Not Evgeni Malkin or Marc-Andre Fleury?

NHL guy: The Penguins have a few kids anybody would take. I'd want Staal. Have you seen him during the playoffs? His game translates to winning playoff games. He's a winner. You win with Jordan Staal. And he's only 19. He has -- what? -- (nine) playoff goals before his 20th birthday? He's a big, strong center that will grow into 30-goal scorer, and he'll be a plus-20 player for about 12 years. His performance against the Flyers, after his grandfather died, was as good as it gets. And he's been really good against Detroit, too. Numbers don't tell you how good Jordan Staal has been.

RR: I'm not sure a lot of people in Pittsburgh even appreciate him.

NHL guy: He's not flashy. He doesn't stick out unless you watch with an eye toward what wins. He makes the smart play every time. He has great instincts, and he might be the best young defensive forward in a decade. His stick is long and quick, he can win physical battles and he can skate. How many times have you seen his line cycle low and keep the puck? It happens all the time.

RR: Some people think he took a step back this year.

NHL guy: He's 19! He'll be one of the most coveted players in the NHL if he hits restricted free agency on July 1 (2009). I know a lot of GMs that would make him their No. 1 center for the next 10 years. He's not Crosby. He's not Malkin. But he's damn good, and he's going to be a big reason his team wins a lot of Cups.


Source: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...rce=rss&feed=8

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05-31-2009, 01:50 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
No GM will give up a top 10 pick for him.

Again, this trade was assuming that Pittsburgh needs to clear space. If they're clearing space, they can't take back an expensive player, they're going to want draft picks, and a cheap player that could fill his third line center role.

A top bluchip prospect or even a young nhler on a cheaper contract, would also save the Pens money.
For example,Tyutin makes $2.2m and Brown makes $2.6m compared to Staal's $4m.Maybe the team trading for Staal takes a reasonable Pens salary dump back, if that helps push the deal thru.

A young,talented blueliner or a young,talented scoring forward would hold more value to the Pens then Stajan on the 3rd line and picks that are probably yrs from contributing.

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05-31-2009, 01:53 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Cross posting this from another thread.

RR: Some people think he took a step back this year.

NHL guy: He's 19! He'll be one of the most coveted players in the NHL if he hits restricted free agency on July 1 (2009). I know a lot of GMs that would make him their No. 1 center for the next 10 years. He's not Crosby. He's not Malkin. But he's damn good, and he's going to be a big reason his team wins a lot of Cups.

Source: http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pitt...rce=rss&feed=8
Thanks for posting this.It just confirms how fans underrate this kid.

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Old
05-31-2009, 01:55 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
A top bluchip prospect or even a young nhler on a cheaper contract, would also save the Pens money.
For example,Tyutin makes $2.2m and Brown makes $2.6m compared to Staal's $4m.Maybe the team trading for Staal takes a reasonable Pens salary dump back, if that helps push the deal thru.

A young,talented blueliner or a young,talented scoring forward would hold more value to the Pens then Stajan on the 3rd line and picks that are probably yrs from contributing.
You could probably get Tyutin for him, but Brown? I dare you to make that trade proposal on this forum (seriously, make a topic for it).

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05-31-2009, 01:57 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Atlanta's GM has stated that he wants one of Duchene (not going to get him), Kane, or Schenn. He's not trading that pick.

At 5th overall, you have Phoenix, who need defense much more than a center. I'm sure they'll take Cowen. Again, they're not going to trade that pick (they actually might if it only means moving down a spot or two).
Atlanta's gm has also said he wants Kovalchuk to sign an extension,not even test next summer's ufa market.

The same Kovalchuk,who's telling the team he wants to see them spend money to improve the team.

You really think Waddell,wouldn't be all over a chance to get Kovalchuk his 1st line center?One who could step in and produce at a high level as soon as next season?C'mon.

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05-31-2009, 01:59 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Cross posting this from another thread.
That's one NHL executive. They tend to say lots of things, but in the end, it's just one man's opinion.

Staal is underrated, but you guys are acting like he's already a franchise player with elite trade value.

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05-31-2009, 02:00 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Atlanta's gm has also said he wants Kovalchuk to sign an extension,not even test next summer's ufa market.

The same Kovalchuk,who's telling the team he wants to see them spend money to improve the team.

You really think Waddell,wouldn't be all over a chance to get Kovalchuk his 1st line center?One who could step in and produce at a high level as soon as next season?C'mon.
It's a possibility, but it's very unlikely. He's going to keep that pick, and draft one of Duchene or Schenn (two players that could be alot better than Staal).

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05-31-2009, 02:02 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
You could probably get Tyutin for him, but Brown? I dare you to make that trade proposal on this forum (seriously, make a topic for it).


LA is reportedly trying to improve at center,which is why they're linked in trade rumors for LeCavalair.

Read the article that's posted in this thread.An nhl exec speaks of how many gms would love to get Staal amd make him their #1 center for the next decade.

Frankly I don't care if fans on message boards think Staal's underrated or overrated.I put more value in the opinions of nhl execs,gms.

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05-31-2009, 02:03 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeDude View Post
In the event that the Pens decided Staal would have to become a cap casualty, I'm pretty sure there would be several offers out there better than this one.
By the looks of it, you're a Philly fan. What would you give up for Staal?

I don't think Philly needs anymore centers.

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05-31-2009, 02:03 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Cross posting this from another thread.
I like Staal too, but this "anonymous" NHL executive schtick has absolutely zero credibility. Anybody who would take him over Malkin has to get their head checked.

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05-31-2009, 02:06 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
That's one NHL executive. They tend to say lots of things, but in the end, it's just one man's opinion.

Staal is underrated, but you guys are acting like he's already a franchise player with elite trade value.


Interesting to see you brush off the opinion of the nhl exec., who's comments don't support your he's practically a bust,lucky to be in the league attitude

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05-31-2009, 02:06 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
LA is reportedly trying to improve at center,which is why they're linked in trade rumors for LeCavalair.

Read the article that's posted in this thread.An nhl exec speaks of how many gms would love to get Staal amd make him their #1 center for the next decade.

Frankly I don't care if fans on message boards think Staal's underrated or overrated.I put more value in the opinions of nhl execs,gms.
Even besides Lecavalier, there are far better options out there than Staal. Staal would be one of their last choices (Moller could be just as good).

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05-31-2009, 02:07 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Assuming that the cap goes down significantly in the next few years, and Pittsburgh needs to clear some cap-space, this is the offer that Burke should make for Jordan Staal.

To Pittsburgh: A 2010 1st round draft pick, Matt Stajan, and a 2009 2nd round draft pick.
To Toronto: Jordan Staal.

Not only does Pittsburgh clear some salary, they get a good 3rd line center in return, along with a 2010 1st round draft pick, and a 2009 2nd round draft pick.
oh wow.

DO NOT WANT

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05-31-2009, 02:07 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
That's one NHL executive. They tend to say lots of things, but in the end, it's just one man's opinion.

Staal is underrated, but you guys are acting like he's already a franchise player with elite trade value.
Yes, it is. Just like your assertion that nobody with a top 10 draft pick would trade it straight up for J Staal is just one man's opinion.

And when it comes to evaluating NHL talent I'll value the opinion of someone whose job involves dealing with the NHL on a daily basis over a fan who just likes posting on message boards.

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05-31-2009, 02:10 PM
  #42
Cleatus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Yes, it is. Just like your assertion that nobody with a top 10 draft pick would trade it straight up for J Staal is just one man's opinion.

And when it comes to evaluating NHL talent I'll value the opinion of someone whose job involves dealing with the NHL on a daily basis over a fan who just likes posting on message boards.
Look at this year's deadline. Did you not see how reluctant every team was to give up a 1st rounder? No team is giving up a top 10 pick unless a great player is coming their way, not just a player who has potential (Staal).

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05-31-2009, 02:20 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Even besides Lecavalier, there are far better options out there than Staal. Staal would be one of their last choices (Moller could be just as good).
[/QUOTE]


1.LA's missed the playoffs for several straight yrs.I think part of the reason they want LeCavalair is that he's established,has been to the postseason.Staal would have that advantage over Moller.

2.Staal's already scored 29 goals in an nhl season.When Moller scores that in 1 nhl season,get back to me with that Moller could be just as good comment.Until then Staal remains an emerging,young nhl player and Moller remains a promising,unproven prospect.

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05-31-2009, 02:28 PM
  #44
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1.LA's missed the playoffs for several straight yrs.I think part of the reason they want LeCavalair is that he's established,has been to the postseason.Staal would have that advantage over Moller.

2.Staal's already scored 29 goals in an nhl season.When Moller scores that in 1 nhl season,get back to me with that Moller could be just as good comment.Until then Staal remains an emerging,young nhl player and Moller remains a promising,unproven prospect.[/QUOTE]

Which is why I used the word "could."

I just think that it's unlikely they'll trade for Staal if they already have Moller in the 2nd line center position. Staal is still rather unproven, and there's a plethora of better centers out there that they'd take above him (and they have alot to offer).

Again, out of the centers that could possibly be available, Staal would be one of the last choices. It's a big gamble on whether he can put them over the top.

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05-31-2009, 02:32 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Look at this year's deadline. Did you not see how reluctant every team was to give up a 1st rounder? No team is giving up a top 10 pick unless a great player is coming their way, not just a player who has potential (Staal).
He doesn't just have potential.

He's the penguins best shut down centre, their best penalty killer, he gets almost no PP time, he has terrible line mates and he's still put up 2 20 goal seasons.

Saying you will not give up potential for potential + somewhat proven (youngest player to play 200 NHL games, no player has played more playoff games than him at his age, etc.) is kind of ridiculous.

I still stand by what I said. Atlanta's GM would jump on any chance to trade for a young NHL ready stud like Jordan Staal that can play right now and help him resign kovalchuk.


If he's so terrible, why would you want to trade what you think is a top 15 pick next year in an equally deep draft, a 50 point centre in Stajan and a 2nd round pick this year PLUS take more salary back than you're getting rid of. Something doesn't make sense here.

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05-31-2009, 02:33 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Look at this year's deadline. Did you not see how reluctant every team was to give up a 1st rounder? No team is giving up a top 10 pick unless a great player is coming their way, not just a player who has potential (Staal).
What team was offered a 22 yr old,former 29 goal scorer?

I'll tell you what type of deals were on the table:Snow balked at Witt for a 2nd+4th rounder.He insisted on a 1st.
Another exec. spoke off the record about Snow,saying his team had been willing to give up a 2nd for Weight before his injury,although he'd expected Snow to push for a 1st.The exec. said they wouldn't give up more then the 2nd.

If 37 yr old Weight was worth a 2nd,then there's no way 22 yr old Staal wouldn't have bought back a first.Probably a high one.

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05-31-2009, 02:38 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
He doesn't just have potential.

He's the penguins best shut down centre, their best penalty killer, he gets almost no PP time, he has terrible line mates and he's still put up 2 20 goal seasons.

Saying you will not give up potential for potential + somewhat proven (youngest player to play 200 NHL games, no player has played more playoff games than him at his age, etc.) is kind of ridiculous.

I still stand by what I said. Atlanta's GM would jump on any chance to trade for a young NHL ready stud like Jordan Staal that can play right now and help him resign kovalchuk.


If he's so terrible, why would you want to trade what you think is a top 15 pick next year in an equally deep draft, a 50 point centre in Stajan and a 2nd round pick this year PLUS take more salary back than you're getting rid of. Something doesn't make sense here.
He's not going to trade a 4th overall pick for Staal. A trade revolving around the 4th overall pick could get you someone alot better.

I never said he's terrible, I just said that his value is nowhere near as high as you're implying. Honestly, propose a straight-up trade of Staal for either one of Atlanta's 4th overall pick, Phoenix' 5th overall pick, LA's 6th overall pick, and Toronto's 7th overall pick (make a new topic).

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05-31-2009, 02:39 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
He's not going to trade a 4th overall pick for Staal. A trade revolving around the 4th overall pick could get you someone alot better.

I never said he's terrible, I just said that his value is nowhere near as high as you're implying. Honestly, propose a straight-up trade of Staal for either one of Atlanta's 4th overall pick, Phoenix' 5th overall pick, LA's 6th overall pick, and Toronto's 7th overall pick (make a new topic).
Will do. But I'm curious, who do you think he could land for the 4th overall that's "alot better" than J Staal?

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05-31-2009, 02:40 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
What team was offered a 22 yr old,former 29 goal scorer?

I'll tell you what type of deals were on the table:Snow balked at Witt for a 2nd+4th rounder.He insisted on a 1st.
Another exec. spoke off the record about Snow,saying his team had been willing to give up a 2nd for Weight before his injury,although he'd expected Snow to push for a 1st.The exec. said they wouldn't give up more then the 2nd.

If 37 yr old Weight was worth a 2nd,then there's no way 22 yr old Staal wouldn't have bought back a first.Probably a high one.
That offer for Weight was a big rip-off.

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05-31-2009, 02:40 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
What team was offered a 22 yr old,former 29 goal scorer?

I'll tell you what type of deals were on the table:Snow balked at Witt for a 2nd+4th rounder.He insisted on a 1st.
Another exec. spoke off the record about Snow,saying his team had been willing to give up a 2nd for Weight before his injury,although he'd expected Snow to push for a 1st.The exec. said they wouldn't give up more then the 2nd.

If 37 yr old Weight was worth a 2nd,then there's no way 22 yr old Staal wouldn't have bought back a first.Probably a high one.
If those deals were on the table, Snow was unbelievably negligent in turning them down. Which makes me think that they were never really on the table. How is it that a team was offering a second round pick for Weight, but Snow only got a conditional 3rd for Guerin? Why would a team offer a 2nd and a fourth for a defenceman, in Witt, who just completed the worst season of his entire career?

Not trying to argue for the sake of it, but where was this reported? Botta? If so, put me down as skeptical.

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