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Kings Interested in Hedman?

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Old
06-01-2009, 12:43 AM
  #76
Captain Ron
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Originally Posted by antdvda View Post
you got me
Well if it makes you feel any better I agreed that the proposal you responded to was not nearly enough from the Kings.

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06-01-2009, 01:07 AM
  #77
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You know, I thought I understood you people - didn't agree with you, but I thought I understood the concept.

No quick fixes / build the team "the right way" / have patience - the kids will develop soon.

Am I reading these offers correctly? Now you want to trade Johnson, Frolov, Teubert, Bernier, Jones AND 2 #1 picks?!?!?

If this is OK, why have we all suffered for the last 3 seasons? What happened to doing it "the right way" if all the Kings had to do to satisfy everyone was do a deal like this?


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06-01-2009, 01:15 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
You know, I thought I understood you people - didn't agree with you, but I thought I understood the concept.

No quick fixes / build the team "the right way" / have patience - the kids will develop soon.

Am I reading these offers correctly? Now you want to trade Johnson, Frolov, Teubert, Bernier, Jones AND 2 #1 picks?!?!?

If this is OK, why have we all suffered for the last 3 seasons? What happened to doing it "the right way" if all the Kings had to do to satisfy everyone was do a deal like this?

I am continuously surprised by some of the people on these boards PSP.

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06-01-2009, 01:21 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
You know, I thought I understood you people - didn't agree with you, but I thought I understood the concept.

No quick fixes / build the team "the right way" / have patience - the kids will develop soon.

Am I reading these offers correctly? Now you want to trade Johnson, Frolov, Teubert, Bernier, Jones AND 2 #1 picks?!?!?

If this is OK, why have we all suffered for the last 3 seasons? What happened to doing it "the right way" if all the Kings had to do to satisfy everyone was do a deal like this?

OMGOMGOMG I agree with PSP, the best part about that "rumor" is you know its garbage because goalie's is the one thing Tampa doesn't need, and really whats the point of throwing Jones in that proposal??? So he can play in the echl for Tampa next year??? But the reason ppl like it is cause your only giving up 2 roster players!!!! Woo how short sighted can we be to give up 2 roster players, 2 prospects that were first rounders, and 2 future firsts (one being the #5) for and player with a ify contract for the future and the #2 pick, whoever we may covet.

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06-01-2009, 01:50 AM
  #80
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While going for broke now would be a mistake, let's not act like building the right way, through the draft, yada yada, means that you never trade some of those assets, or sometimes what seems like a large chunk of them.

A package of Frolov, JJ, 2 1sts, Teubert, Bernier, Jones. Now that is silly and would be highly counter-intuitive.

However, I think Johnson could be replaced, and trading one of the goalie prospects isn't a terrible thing. Trading Bernier could be very costly, but at this point, I could live with one of Zatkoff or Jones moving, preferably Zatkoff.

Trading one D prospect isn't terrible either.

Trading a 1st round pick isn't horrible.

To me the idea is not to trade too much of any one thing.

Trading 2 1st's is kind of lame. Trading 2 d prospects wouldn't be as bad, since we do have several, but even still, not a great idea. 2 goalies? Ludicrous. All that PLUS 2 roster players? Why?

But putting together a hefty package, taking from all of those areas? For a big time impact player (or two in this far fetched scenario), isn't something to immediately disregard simply because it goes against the 'rebuild' mantra.

The rebuild mantra can only last so long or it becomes kind of meaningless. Personally I think that this is a perfect time to begin the philosophy shift from rebuild to win. That doesn't mean go for broke. It means more of what we saw in the Williams trade.

If you put together the right large package to get a couple of big assets, you can do it while maintaining depth.

Like,

One of: Tuebert, Hickey, Martinez, Voynov

+

One of: Jones or Zatkoff

+

One of: 2009 1st or 2010 1st

+

One roster player: Johnson, Stoll, Moller

+

One forward prospect: Boyle, Cliche, Moulson, etc

+

One later round pick this year or next,

and you have yourself a very tempting, huge AND cheap (financially for the other team) offer, without really going for broke. Tough to swallow, sure, but could be exactly the kick in the pants the team needs, if the return is something as huge as VL and Hedman.

If you trade Tuebert, Johnson, 5th overall, Zatkoff, Boyle and a 2nd rounder next year, you could get a pretty monstrous return, I would think. Probably not VL AND Hedman, but I would think that would get us Vinny and a little somethin' somethin' on the side. That's hardly a combination of garbage.

We'd still have our current roster almost completely intact, plus we'd still have 3 solid D prospects, Purcell, Moller and Simmonds, Bernier and Jones, and all our 1sts except for this year. Not exactly bankrupting the system is it?

Its when you start adding 2 or 3 roster players, or 2 or 3 top prospects of the same position, or several high picks that you get into trouble.

Or when you trade your best of several positions. If you trade Moller, you don't trade Hickey. If you trade Bernier, you don't trade Moller. If you trade a 1st, you don't trade Frolov AND Johnson. This is how you utilize assets while maintaining strong depth.

The hope is that after spending a year or two with the prospects in the system, if the Kings staff is doing their job right, they know something about them the other team doesn't, and can make a highly educated guess as to who will excel in the NHL and who will not, before you even really see them there.

I think this is why Detroit hits so often. I'm sure they knew Helm and Adbelkader would be this effective a few years ago.

If Dean has put the developmental system together properly, he can move several assets that are good assets, while keeping the ones he knows will eventually slot in at certain positions.

You can't keep everybody in the end.

You also can't keep everybody in the system. Unfortunately, in order to make trades, especially big trades, you have to decide who to move forward with as prospects for the team.

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Old
06-01-2009, 09:45 AM
  #81
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Is there a reason why Vinny and the #2 pick is always being discussed together?

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06-01-2009, 10:19 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSP View Post
You know, I thought I understood you people - didn't agree with you, but I thought I understood the concept.

No quick fixes / build the team "the right way" / have patience - the kids will develop soon.

Am I reading these offers correctly? Now you want to trade Johnson, Frolov, Teubert, Bernier, Jones AND 2 #1 picks?!?!?

If this is OK, why have we all suffered for the last 3 seasons? What happened to doing it "the right way" if all the Kings had to do to satisfy everyone was do a deal like this?

If DL does this, I'm going to cry.. No way he gives up JJ, Frolov, Teubert, Bernier, Martin Jones (who has an AMAZING WHL year) and 2 1st rounders for a guy who gets paid 10 million a year, a no name clown in James Wright?? and possibly Hedman..

NOOOOOO NOOOOO NOOOOOO.. God, I hope this is only a rumor, I'll cry if this happens

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06-01-2009, 10:35 AM
  #83
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As much as I like the idea of VL in a Kings uniform, this massive swap and blow up the rebuild for one guy doesn't fit the DL model of building a team. I also don't see DL selling the farm to fix Tampon Bay quicker than he fixes the Kings. I am leery of any massive deal giving up lots of assets, but I have enough confidence in DL to believe that he won't be fleeced in any deal.

My biggest concern is that Frolov NOT be included in any deal. Losing Frolov creates a bigger hole at LW than we currently have, and the HOLE on that wing is noticeable already. I don't mind seeing JWTFJ go (and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out Jack--if his attitude is truly the way its been pictured here recently) and I relaize some prospect(s) need to go, but losing Frolov HURTS. IN SO MANY WAYS: Scoring, puck possession, defense, Team morale.

I'd nix the deal if Frolov is included. Frolov is a deal breaker.

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Old
06-01-2009, 10:43 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
Other ones that drive me nuts are....

Prolly (probably)

and

Supposably (supposedly)

I know it is just a bulletin board....but when I see these words misspelled on a regualr basis I go insane.
dually knowted.

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Old
06-01-2009, 11:25 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbergh View Post
Is there a reason why Vinny and the #2 pick is always being discussed together?
Lately it is because Hedman said that the Kings were his favorite team which started everyone to fantasize...

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Old
06-01-2009, 11:33 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I wouldn't. To me Frolov is a deal breaker unless DL can ABSOLUTELY guarantee that he WILL get another LW capable of 30 goals this offseason.

Even then, I'd prefer Frolov over most every other LW that scores around the same amount of goals and points.

I kind of don't care what the circumstances are, I will be pissed if Frolov gets traded at all, let alone before they are even allowed to talk about a contract extension.
Psh who needs offense when you have a bunch of 6'2+ D men

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06-01-2009, 12:25 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Telos View Post
Lately it is because Hedman said that the Kings were his favorite team which started everyone to fantasize...
Couldn't the Kings simply trade up without taking on Vinny and his contract? Why not a JJ + 5th for 2nd+, assuming Tavares/Duchene is picked first?

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06-01-2009, 12:29 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lumbergh View Post
Couldn't the Kings simply trade up without taking on Vinny and his contract? Why not a JJ + 5th for 2nd+, assuming Tavares/Duchene is picked first?
if Tavares or Duchene go first, it'd be downright stupid for Tampa Bay not to take Hedman if their intention is to indeed keep Lecavalier.

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06-01-2009, 12:45 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
As much as I like the idea of VL in a Kings uniform, this massive swap and blow up the rebuild for one guy doesn't fit the DL model of building a team. I also don't see DL selling the farm to fix Tampon Bay quicker than he fixes the Kings. I am leery of any massive deal giving up lots of assets, but I have enough confidence in DL to believe that he won't be fleeced in any deal.

My biggest concern is that Frolov NOT be included in any deal. Losing Frolov creates a bigger hole at LW than we currently have, and the HOLE on that wing is noticeable already. I don't mind seeing JWTFJ go (and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out Jack--if his attitude is truly the way its been pictured here recently) and I relaize some prospect(s) need to go, but losing Frolov HURTS. IN SO MANY WAYS: Scoring, puck possession, defense, Team morale.

I'd nix the deal if Frolov is included. Frolov is a deal breaker.
If TB is indeed shopping VL because of money issues, I would be very, very surprised if TB would ask for Fro. He's a UFA after next season and it would seem very unlikely he would want to stick around after that - plus he'd probably get a decent sized contract after he becomes a UFA, which would negate much of the savings TB realizes by trading Vinny.

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06-01-2009, 12:50 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by PSP View Post
You know, I thought I understood you people - didn't agree with you, but I thought I understood the concept.

No quick fixes / build the team "the right way" / have patience - the kids will develop soon.

Am I reading these offers correctly? Now you want to trade Johnson, Frolov, Teubert, Bernier, Jones AND 2 #1 picks?!?!?

If this is OK, why have we all suffered for the last 3 seasons? What happened to doing it "the right way" if all the Kings had to do to satisfy everyone was do a deal like this?

I only read the first couple posts and the start of this last page. Tell me people are not wanting to give all that for an unproven Hedman.

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06-01-2009, 12:54 PM
  #91
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That was for VL and Hedman

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06-01-2009, 01:38 PM
  #92
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Seems to me that re-signing Johnson and Frolov, drafting MSP and throwing cash at Hossa or Gaborik leaves us in a better position than all of these proposals.

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06-01-2009, 01:49 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by HeadInjury View Post
Seems to me that re-signing Johnson and Frolov, drafting MSP and throwing cash at Hossa or Gaborik leaves us in a better position than all of these proposals.
Well, you'd be wrong, because this teams most glaring weakness true, legit, top flight centerman and veteran leadership.

I love how easy it is...oh, Luc and Timmy write a check and Hossa or Gaborik sign? it's that simple? Yeah, not really.

That said, some of these offers are truly ridiculous.

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06-01-2009, 02:04 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
That said, some of these offers are truly ridiculous.
That was my point.

Also, I do believe that a team willing to pay a player a ton has a better chance of landing them. If the Kings were willing to take on VL's contract (in this hypothetical situation), they wouldn't have had a problem paying for Hossa or Gaborik.

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06-01-2009, 02:06 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by HeadInjury View Post
That was my point.

Also, I do believe that a team willing to pay a player a ton has a better chance of landing them. If the Kings were willing to take on VL's contract (in this hypothetical situation), they wouldn't have had a problem paying for Hossa or Gaborik.
Gaborik will not get another offer like he received last year from the Wild, his own team where he is already settled and ran rough-shot over everything.

Hossa took less money and one year, placing his entire earning power in jeopardy, in order to play for a winner.

How again is more money supposed to convince someone to play in one city out of 30? I guess it's applicable if you're the Jeff Fingers of the world.

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06-01-2009, 02:13 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
Gaborik will not get another offer like he received last year from the Wild, his own team where he is already settled and ran rough-shot over everything.

Hossa took less money and one year, placing his entire earning power in jeopardy, in order to play for a winner.

How again is more money supposed to convince someone to play in one city out of 30? I guess it's applicable if you're the Jeff Fingers of the world.
Again, this a hypothetical situation where the Kings are deciding whether to trade for VL. I can't guarantee that Hossa or Gaborik would sign any more than someone making a VL trade proposal can guarantee Tampa would make the trade. My point is, if you're hoping that the Kings trade for VL, you'd be better off hoping that they go this other route.

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06-01-2009, 02:20 PM
  #97
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Man, if we do this it means we won't get Cowen at 5th. Guess DL will pull a Hickey and take him with the 2nd.

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06-01-2009, 02:51 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by VictoryRose View Post
Gaborik will not get another offer like he received last year from the Wild, his own team where he is already settled and ran rough-shot over everything.

Hossa took less money and one year, placing his entire earning power in jeopardy, in order to play for a winner.

How again is more money supposed to convince someone to play in one city out of 30? I guess it's applicable if you're the Jeff Fingers of the world.
Then put yourself in Gaborik's shoes. Let's say Montreal, Vancouver, NYR and the Kings are offering you deals. All the deals are similar in money, maybe 1 team throws in a NTC, 1 team is a year or 2 longer and 1 team is offering less money. Based on what we know of Lombardi the Kings will be offering the least amount of money. Why would you choose LA if you're Marion Gaborik? You're going to sign for less money in a town that could care less about hockey to play for a perennial re-building team with almost no history outside of the Triple Crown Era and #99? Nope, you're going to take the highest bidder.


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Old
06-01-2009, 03:56 PM
  #99
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The chances are better for me getting head then the Kings getting Hedman

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Old
06-01-2009, 04:10 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Cutty Sarkn3ss View Post
The chances are better for me getting head then the Kings getting Hedman
if i didn't know you i'd probly laugh at this. be careful what you say, we'll be in vegas in a few months.

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