HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Who are your finalists for the Hart?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-25-2004, 12:08 AM
  #51
Knucklez
Registered User
 
Knucklez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Behind the bench!
Posts: 5,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand
2 goals in his last 20 games. Quarter of the season.
He has had a concussion and a groin pull in that time. It's unfair to say he's been slumping that long.

Knucklez is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 12:29 AM
  #52
rye&ginger
Registered User
 
rye&ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,156
vCash: 500
Knucklez, Naslund isnt a legit candidate anymore I feel. He's been too off form since Moore clipped him.

rye&ginger is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 12:37 AM
  #53
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 47,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklez
He has had a concussion and a groin pull in that time. It's unfair to say he's been slumping that long.
Last 20 games he's played, not the last 20 games for the canucks. Doesn't matter what the reason, he has disappeared for a 20 game stretch, and you claimed he didn't. MVP's don't do that.

Fish on The Sand is online now  
Old
03-25-2004, 12:42 AM
  #54
Knucklez
Registered User
 
Knucklez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Behind the bench!
Posts: 5,472
vCash: 500
OK, I've taken off my Canuck glasses and I see your point...On the bright side, Naz played a very good game tonight. But I know what you mean, I'm just so dissapointed that a couple months ago he looked like a lock for the Ross and the Hart


Last edited by Knucklez: 03-25-2004 at 12:49 AM.
Knucklez is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 12:46 AM
  #55
Randall Graves*
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 18,622
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon84
I think people have a short term memory. In the past 3 months Brodeur has been a key factor in all the Devils wins just like Turco was a major factor in carrying the team in the first 3 months.

Turco in the first 3 months:
16-14-6
2.06 GAA
.913 save %

Brodeur in last 3 months:
17-16-4
2.35 GAA
.909 GAA %

Now Turco's numbers look better. But I think to say Brodeur is helping the Devils plummet in the standings is like saying Turco was doing the same when the Stars weren't playing that hot
If you watched Dallas at all early in the season you would see that A)They had no stay at home pressence other then Boucher(When he got hurt they were horrible) and B)were loafing around and relying on skill to win them games. look at Turcos GAA nearly .30 better then Broduer on a team that was looking like it wouldn't make the playoffs.

Marty Turco IS the reason Dallas will make the playoffs, is St.Louis the reason for TB?Is Brodeur for NJ?

Too me it is not even close if you watched the Stars early on you'd wonder how they have done it.

Randall Graves* is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 01:05 AM
  #56
haakon84
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 2,162
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller
If you watched Dallas at all early in the season you would see that A)They had no stay at home pressence other then Boucher(When he got hurt they were horrible) and B)were loafing around and relying on skill to win them games. look at Turcos GAA nearly .30 better then Broduer on a team that was looking like it wouldn't make the playoffs.

Marty Turco IS the reason Dallas will make the playoffs, is St.Louis the reason for TB?Is Brodeur for NJ?

Too me it is not even close if you watched the Stars early on you'd wonder how they have done it.
You're right I didn't watch the Stars early on in the season that is why I'm going by numbers here. But I have watched the Devils over the past 3 months and with all the injuries they have gone through they sound alot like the Stars you described in your post. If Brodeur wasn't in the line-up their record would look a lot worse than 17-16-4 (same with the Stars without Turco). They'd be battling it out with the Islanders and Buffalo rather than a game away from the 4th/5th seed. As I've said before I think both goalies are mirror images of eachother and I think they both play on very similar teams.

I don't buy that Turco is "the reason" the Stars are making the playoffs. Just because it is a team effort. From what I understand Guerin, Arnott, and Morrow have all turned it up as of late also. That is why choosing a MVP is so hard.


Last edited by haakon84: 03-25-2004 at 01:10 AM.
haakon84 is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 01:20 AM
  #57
jojo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 175
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogilny8989
I know you might think this is "homerism", but I think Belfour should get atleast some consideration. Without him, our team is toast, and they proved that for that whole month when Eddie was out.
Sure, without Belfour the Leafs are in trouble but isn't that just because their backups really really suck? Of course, Eddie has had a good season and he is particularly valuable to the Leafs because any game he starts is a game where the opposition does not get a free go at Kidd or Tellqvist but you can't give him the Hart for that!

Take Belfour out and replace him with the average #1 goalie in the league and the Leafs wouldn't really be in a worse shape. Actually (I'll get flamed for this) isn't Belfour pretty close to being the average #1 goalie this year?

I think Luongo and Turco do deserve Hart consideration though.

jojo is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 01:23 AM
  #58
rye&ginger
Registered User
 
rye&ginger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyKiller
Marty Turco IS the reason Dallas will make the playoffs, is St.Louis the reason for TB?Is Brodeur for NJ?
.
Raycroft? On a worse team on the past few years form than both of those goalies.

rye&ginger is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 01:25 AM
  #59
Peter25
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,459
vCash: 500
Kovalchuk should win the Hart IMO. He has been the biggest reason why Atlanta is competing for the playoffs.

His nationality is a big blow for his chances though. The NHL will not give the Hart to a Russian player that easily.

Peter25 is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 02:41 AM
  #60
Bolthed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 629
vCash: 500
Atlanta's competing for the playoffs???

Bolthed is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 06:36 AM
  #61
s7ark
Registered User
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,208
vCash: 500
While Kovalchuk looks like he might win the Richard trophy, or maybe the Art Ross (not likely), I wonder he'll win the Hart. I think he is obviously the MVP of his team (with goalies like Passi and Byron, and since he leads the team scoring by 30 pts). Is being the obvious MVP of Atlanta enough to bring home the hardware? I think it should. I'm a big Theodore, Ryder, and Koivu supporter, but this guy has obviously done the most for his team. Of hand I can't think of any cup contender that has a single player who has done more for his team than Kova did for his. St. Louis has the support of Richards, LeCavelier, and Stillman, which kind of excludes him. He'll likely get the Art Ross, but I'm still pulling for Sakic.

s7ark is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 08:46 AM
  #62
Higgy4
Registered User
 
Higgy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
While Kovalchuk looks like he might win the Richard trophy, or maybe the Art Ross (not likely), I wonder he'll win the Hart. I think he is obviously the MVP of his team (with goalies like Passi and Byron, and since he leads the team scoring by 30 pts). Is being the obvious MVP of Atlanta enough to bring home the hardware? I think it should. I'm a big Theodore, Ryder, and Koivu supporter, but this guy has obviously done the most for his team. Of hand I can't think of any cup contender that has a single player who has done more for his team than Kova did for his. St. Louis has the support of Richards, LeCavelier, and Stillman, which kind of excludes him. He'll likely get the Art Ross, but I'm still pulling for Sakic.
Iginla and Kipprusoff have been key to the Flames being in the playoff hunt. Without one or the other of these 2, the Flames are once again on the outside, looking in.

Higgy4 is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 08:50 AM
  #63
Higgy4
Registered User
 
Higgy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon84
I don't buy that Turco is "the reason" the Stars are making the playoffs. Just because it is a team effort. From what I understand Guerin, Arnott, and Morrow have all turned it up as of late also. That is why choosing a MVP is so hard.

You hit it on the head. "As of late". The Stars are playing great nowadays. But for most of the first 1/3 of the season, Turco carried them. There are alot of guys worthy of MVP mention. And Turco is one of them.

Higgy4 is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 09:59 AM
  #64
Pantokrator
Who's the clown?
 
Pantokrator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Semmes, Alabama
Country: Guatemala
Posts: 4,272
vCash: 500
St Louis
Luongo
Iginla

Pantokrator is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 05:40 PM
  #65
albathegreat*
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,106
vCash: 500
We have seen already in Toronto, without Belfour they would be no were near a top team in the east.

My votes: ( no particular order )

Belfour: 7-8th team at best without
Luongo: Fighting for Ovechkin without
Koivu: Don't like him, but I am hearing good things about him ( latley )

albathegreat* is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 05:50 PM
  #66
detredWINgs
Registered User
 
detredWINgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haakon84
From what I understand Guerin, Arnott, and Morrow have all turned it up as of late also. That is why choosing a MVP is so hard.
Key phrase: "as of late", Guerin, Arnott, Morrow all disappeared at the beginning.

detredWINgs is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 05:52 PM
  #67
Habs4Life
Registered User
 
Habs4Life's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogilny8989
I know you might think this is "homerism", but I think Belfour should get atleast some consideration. Without him, our team is toast, and they proved that for that whole month when Eddie was out.
Obviously a leaf's fan.. LOL

Habs4Life is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 05:58 PM
  #68
detredWINgs
Registered User
 
detredWINgs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 13,698
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
Obviously a leaf's fan.. LOL
But he has a point. Toronto did slip without Belfour. Hes not a forerunner but he does deserve some consideration.....and this is coming from a wings fan. I'm in enemy territory here.

detredWINgs is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 07:01 PM
  #69
DownFromNJ
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,536
vCash: 500
I don't think you can give the Hart to Belfour before Brodeur, Turco, or Aebby.

DownFromNJ is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 07:42 PM
  #70
Biggest Canuck Fan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: West Kelowna, BC
Posts: 10,392
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Biggest Canuck Fan
I cannot believe all the votes for Turco. I must be the only person who doesn't see that.

Sakic: Take a look at where he is and in particular the Avalanche's resurgence. Sakic was having multiple point nights, ala Forsberg of a season ago.

St. Louis: He has bailed the Lightning on I don't know how many nights. Leads the league in scoring.

Iginla: He is the reason the Flames have a shot at home ice in the first round, playing on a team with far less talent than most.

Theodore: See above w/o the home ice.

Those four by far are more deserving. I know I will get flamed, but look at that Dallas team. Isn't suprising that they are winning because they are also scoring more? So really the Stars are out when they aren't scoring and you are all praising Turco because he kept them in it?!?! They were out of the playoffs, not because Turco was helping them win.

Biggest Canuck Fan is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 07:46 PM
  #71
Higgy4
Registered User
 
Higgy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggest Canuck Fan
I cannot believe all the votes for Turco. I must be the only person who doesn't see that.

Sakic: Take a look at where he is and in particular the Avalanche's resurgence. Sakic was having multiple point nights, ala Forsberg of a season ago.

St. Louis: He has bailed the Lightning on I don't know how many nights. Leads the league in scoring.

Iginla: He is the reason the Flames have a shot at home ice in the first round, playing on a team with far less talent than most.

Theodore: See above w/o the home ice.

Those four by far are more deserving. I know I will get flamed, but look at that Dallas team. Isn't suprising that they are winning because they are also scoring more? So really the Stars are out when they aren't scoring and you are all praising Turco because he kept them in it?!?! They were out of the playoffs, not because Turco was helping them win.
I think you have a great list of players there, but Turco needs to be added in. He is the #1 reason the Stars are where they are. That isnt an opinion...its a fact.

Higgy4 is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 07:57 PM
  #72
s7ark
Registered User
 
s7ark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,208
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Higgy4
I think you have a great list of players there, but Turco needs to be added in. He is the #1 reason the Stars are where they are. That isnt an opinion...its a fact.
Slow your roll, shorty! Arguments about who is having a relatively bad year aside, Dallas has Arnott, Barnes, Boucher, Bure (Valeri, but he's not bad), Corson, DiMaio, Guerin, Lehtinen, Matvichuck, Modano, Morrow, Numminen, Sweeney, Turgeon, Zubov, Klemm (played in Halifax, have one of his sticks and had lunch at his table at a Citadels function... good guy), now Therien, etc. I'm sorry, but I can't believe that they have had 0 contribution to the success of both Turco and Dallas. Look at the list again and think of how many have been some sort of captain over the years. Congrats to Turco on his good year. He had plenty of good help.

s7ark is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 08:00 PM
  #73
Higgy4
Registered User
 
Higgy4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Toledo, Ohio
Country: United States
Posts: 7,548
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Slow your roll, shorty! Arguments about who is having a relatively bad year aside, Dallas has Arnott, Barnes, Boucher, Bure (Valeri, but he's not bad), Corson, DiMaio, Guerin, Lehtinen, Matvichuck, Modano, Morrow, Numminen, Sweeney, Turgeon, Zubov, Klemm (played in Halifax, have one of his sticks and had lunch at his table at a Citadels function... good guy), now Therien, etc. I'm sorry, but I can't believe that they have had 0 contribution to the success of both Turco and Dallas. Look at the list again and think of how many have been some sort of captain over the years. Congrats to Turco on his good year. He had plenty of good help.

"Slow your roll, shorty"? Um...ok.

Higgy4 is offline  
Old
03-25-2004, 08:09 PM
  #74
Chaos
3, 2, 1
 
Chaos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Country: United States
Posts: 7,632
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Chaos
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7ark
Arguments about who is having a relatively bad year aside, Dallas has Arnott, Barnes, Boucher, Bure (Valeri, but he's not bad), Corson, DiMaio, Guerin, Lehtinen, Matvichuck, Modano, Morrow, Numminen, Sweeney, Turgeon, Zubov, Klemm (played in Halifax, have one of his sticks and had lunch at his table at a Citadels function... good guy), now Therien, etc. I'm sorry, but I can't believe that they have had 0 contribution to the success of both Turco and Dallas. Look at the list again and think of how many have been some sort of captain over the years. Congrats to Turco on his good year. He had plenty of good help.
You seem to forget that for the 1st 55-60 games this season, the Stars were down around Carolina/Pittsburgh in offense. At one point, they were 28th I believe.....this is when Turco carried the team. Without him, they wouldnt have won nearly as many low scoring, close games as they did during that time. Its all well and good that you bring up those names, but none of them outside of Morrow were doing anything earlier in the year.

Chaos is online now  
Old
03-26-2004, 03:32 AM
  #75
Ajacied
Remember #9
 
Ajacied's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 23,106
vCash: 500
Some reasons as of why Turco shouldn't even be on the radar is pathetic. Yes, on paper he has a lot of talent playing in front of him, but in reallife, each individual has underachieved and has not met expectations. The team was absolutely putrid in the first half, they scored at a 1.88 clip and Turco rarely caught a brake during that stretch. He played through a broken ankle and groin injury, all that after missing training camp. Ignore the talent Dallas has, this team ain't jack without Turco. He proved it last season (when he was injured, the team played below .400) and he's doing it again this season. Just because a team has a lot of talent, doesn't mean the goalie isn't important anymore. The Stars were an exact copy of the NY Rangers during the first 3 months, imagine Dunham playing as good as Turco, recording the same numbers and bailing them out constantly, would he get the credit he deserves for carrieng the team or will he not because his team is utterly talented? Talent means nothing if you miss the motivation, dedication and chemestry. Turco is a legit candidate for the Hart, I have rarely seen a team relying on one particualr player.

Ajacied is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.