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K-Wings withdrawing from IHL...land in ECHL

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06-01-2009, 08:11 PM
  #1
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K-Wings withdrawing from IHL...land in ECHL

USA Today

Time to fold up shop in the I and merge w/ the E??

I'd like to see the Komet's go AHL, but, just another pipe dream....


Last edited by LadyStanley: 06-09-2009 at 10:46 PM. Reason: expand title
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06-01-2009, 08:15 PM
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I have a friend out in Fort Wayne who is a Komets fan, he doesn't think the Komets will sustain itself in the AHL. With the economy down the tubes in that part of the country, it will be tough for them to move up to the ECHL maybe.

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06-01-2009, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I have a friend out in Fort Wayne who is a Komets fan, he doesn't think the Komets will sustain itself in the AHL. With the economy down the tubes in that part of the country, it will be tough for them to move up to the ECHL maybe.
I'm a season ticket holder and the prices we pay now are more then the E and not much less in the AHL.....

The only way we go to the AHL is if the current owners sell, w/ 7,800+ a night, I think a small dip in the owners pockets and it could easily be done. The Ft. Wayne economy suffers less during times like these for some reason...maybe the low cost of living? Not sure, but people pay a lot of money to see the current product compared to the rest of the teams/leagues.

It won't happen, but a move to the ECHL wouldn't be far fetched at all.

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06-01-2009, 08:44 PM
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HansH
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It's certainly an interesting story, especially given that the IHL's commissioner let the league know a few weeks ago that he wasn't returning to the post (he had a two-year contract and didn't ask to renew it)... to return to an ownership/front-office (I'm not sure which) position with these same Kalamazoo Wings.

That said, I'm not writing the epitaph of this version of the IHL just yet.

Dayton is all-but-official (in Hara Arena) for the IHL for next season, and if Flint can be stabilized enough to limp through another season, then the league could still make it to a third season if they convince the rumored prospective Quad Cities ownership group that the IHL is the way to go for next season (instead of sitting out and waiting for a chance at an ECHL or other team in 2010-11).

That would give them six teams, and the Frankes have shown remarkable ingenuity in keeping the the IHL afloat, and not being forced into a choice of ECHL or AHL.

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06-01-2009, 11:03 PM
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well I was reading a few articles earlier today about the return of the Dayton Gems (looks like 90%) and the possibility of Quad Cities (50%) thinking things are starting to look better for the new IHL.
With this development of loosing one of the better and more stable teams, the IHL future looks less secure.

Quad Cities is now that much more important to the IHL, but articles on QC seems to suggest they are favoring holding out this season and hoping to get an AHL team in the future. The AHL would work if it's done right, instead of bringing in the Flames the franchise should have secured the Mallards, name logo etc... people supported the Mallards but support dropped drastically for the Flames.

For the IHL to survive QC is important and hopefully Dayton will last more than a season or two. If the IHL could get Toledo and Cincy from the ECHL and maybe another team or two they could have a nice sized 8-10 team Midwestern league where the longest distance between teams is about 5-7 hrs.

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06-02-2009, 08:15 AM
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I'm sure that was the "plan" until K-Zoo pulled out.........

The IHL is weak hockey, I was hoping that it would improve from year 1 to year 2 and it didn't talent wise.....it's no doubt that the Frankes run this league (Ft. Wayne owners) and have somewhat killed the league by winning the 2 championships in the first 2 years of it's existence in a league in which they created/bought.

It's a joke, decent concept, but poorly executed IMO.

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06-02-2009, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
I have a friend out in Fort Wayne who is a Komets fan, he doesn't think the Komets will sustain itself in the AHL. With the economy down the tubes in that part of the country, it will be tough for them to move up to the ECHL maybe.
major problem w/ the Komets and the IHL is the ownership in Ft. Wayne and they act like the Grizzlies did when they broke away from the AHL and then showed up back in the ECHL.

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06-02-2009, 02:49 PM
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major problem w/ the Komets and the IHL is the ownership in Ft. Wayne and they act like the Grizzlies did when they broke away from the AHL and then showed up back in the ECHL.
Yes on 1, no on 2.

The Frankes are, unquestionably, pivotal figures in Fort Wayne and the IHL. However, to equate their dominance of their small-footprint league (and I mean behind the scenes, not on the ice) with the Grizzlies dropping out of the AHL and joining the ECHL is laughable.

The ECHL Grizzlies have played nice, and been model league members. Elmore has not been at the center of efforts to save embattled franchises or affect league policy any more than any other league governor. This is in STARK contrast to the Frankes public and private behavior as members of the UHL's final seasons and in both IHL seasons.

Why didn't you call out Binghamton for having a UHL franchise after they lost the AHL? By your "logic", that's just the same.

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06-02-2009, 08:12 PM
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Either way, the imminent demise of the IHL will scorch the earth in a few markets. This league has been a joke from the get-go, considering that Ft. Wayne essentially owned the entire league, and the one team that the Komets weren't allegedly propping up bailed because they weren't being treated equally to the other five.

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06-03-2009, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HansH View Post
It's certainly an interesting story, especially given that the IHL's commissioner let the league know a few weeks ago that he wasn't returning to the post (he had a two-year contract and didn't ask to renew it)... to return to an ownership/front-office (I'm not sure which) position with these same Kalamazoo Wings.

That said, I'm not writing the epitaph of this version of the IHL just yet.

Dayton is all-but-official (in Hara Arena) for the IHL for next season, and if Flint can be stabilized enough to limp through another season, then the league could still make it to a third season if they convince the rumored prospective Quad Cities ownership group that the IHL is the way to go for next season (instead of sitting out and waiting for a chance at an ECHL or other team in 2010-11).

That would give them six teams, and the Frankes have shown remarkable ingenuity in keeping the the IHL afloat, and not being forced into a choice of ECHL or AHL.
How can a team that draws around 1600 per night in one of the most depressed cities on the country limp through another season, especially after a .336 season?

As for Fort Wayne moving to the AHL, obviously the number one issue would be obtaining a franchise. However would the Frankes opt to play in a league where they would lose almost complete control over player/personnel decisions? I would think that the ECHL, where they would still maintain control, would be a better fit.

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06-03-2009, 07:44 PM
  #11
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Official announcement from the K-Wings:

http://www.wingsstadium.com/news/2009/6-1_ihl.htm

Okay, seems like a move to the ECHL might be in order. I don't see any other option. However, one contributor on this board might try to correct me...

Here's some food for thought. When the ECHL announced its alignment for the 2009-2010 season a few weeks ago, it didn't make much sense to me. Take a look:

North Division:
Cincinnati Cyclones
Elmira Jackals
Johnstown Chiefs
Toledo Walleye
Wheeling Nailers

-and-

South Division:
Charlotte Checkers
Florida Everblades
Gwinnett Gladiators
Reading Royals
South Carolina Stingrays
Trenton Devils

I didn't quite understand why Trenton and Reading were separated from the rest of the north division. I mean, the previous alignment was 7-5...no reason they couldn't go 7-4. The two other divisions in the National both have four teams as well...the North is kind of an oddity.

This lead me to believe that there is at least a small chance that the addition of the K-Wings has been in the works for a while. Look now:

North Division:
Cincinnati Cyclones
Elmira Jackals
Johnstown Chiefs
Toledo Walleye
Wheeling Nailers
Kalamazoo Wings

-and-

South Division:
Charlotte Checkers
Florida Everblades
Gwinnett Gladiators
Reading Royals
South Carolina Stingrays
Trenton Devils

Convenient, eh? I also wouldn't be surprised if there was some sort of Detroit & Grand Rapids affiliation tied into this. Now, I know that Detroit & Grand Rapids essentially had their own AA league rather than an AA team, but they might be looking to have one affiliate in the E.

More later.

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06-04-2009, 04:04 AM
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Detroit/Grand Rapids had been affiliated with Toledo before they went dark for two years. I don't know if they were planning on renewing that deal or not.

Another possible explanation for the alignment was that the ECHL wasn't expecting Dayton to go dark, which would have also given them equal divisions.

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06-04-2009, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
As for Fort Wayne moving to the AHL, obviously the number one issue would be obtaining a franchise. However would the Frankes opt to play in a league where they would lose almost complete control over player/personnel decisions?...
Find an NHL team like Anaheim/Atlanta/etc. who would allow you to have your own everything and just supply you players.


But that goes back to finding a franchise for the Frankes to purchase. I hear there may be one available from Des Moines.


(Or here's some fuel to kill the OKC talk, Edmonton to Fort Wayne?)

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06-04-2009, 11:45 AM
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Another league maybe the ohl could be a good fit with saginaw and plymouth.

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06-04-2009, 01:09 PM
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pelts35.com
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aparch View Post
Find an NHL team like Anaheim/Atlanta/etc. who would allow you to have your own everything and just supply you players.


But that goes back to finding a franchise for the Frankes to purchase. I hear there may be one available from Des Moines.


(Or here's some fuel to kill the OKC talk, Edmonton to Fort Wayne?)
Except that controlling players is one of the reasons why Fort Wayne is successful on the ice. I think that's the key issue that the Frankes aren't willing to give up (not to mention the added costs of being involved in the AHL, which, first and foremost, involves purchasing an AHL franchise/license).

That said how do you think the Fort Wayne fans would feel if their AHL affiliate perfomed the way that Edmonton's Springfield Falcons did this past season?

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06-04-2009, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aparch View Post
Find an NHL team like Anaheim/Atlanta/etc. who would allow you to have your own everything and just supply you players.


But that goes back to finding a franchise for the Frankes to purchase. I hear there may be one available from Des Moines.


(Or here's some fuel to kill the OKC talk, Edmonton to Fort Wayne?)
if the Frankes wanted to be in the A, (THIS HAS BEEN COMMON KNOWLEDGE, SINCE '01) then you'd bring the Komets, I also don't believe Anaheim or Atlanta own their affiliates, in the AHL.... THE ERA OF SIGNING Veterans like the Wolves have done, is coming to an end, if it hasn't already.

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06-04-2009, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanMSaunders View Post
Detroit/Grand Rapids had been affiliated with Toledo before they went dark for two years. I don't know if they were planning on renewing that deal or not.

Another possible explanation for the alignment was that the ECHL wasn't expecting Dayton to go dark, which would have also given them equal divisions.
all indications are Dayton is an ECHL Market and will be that way, and afaik, they're still planning on returning in 2010-11

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06-04-2009, 06:12 PM
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all indications are Dayton is an ECHL Market and will be that way, and afaik, they're still planning on returning in 2010-11
With the Gems playing out of Hara Arena in the I.H.L. beginning this fall, the Dayton Bombers returning to play in the ECHL is about as likely as the Reno Raiders were to be ready for the 2003-04 season. 'Aint happening.

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06-04-2009, 07:03 PM
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More news, courtesy of the Kalamazoo Gazette:

http://www.mlive.com/kwings/index.ss..._may_come.html

Check out these quotes:

Quote:
"I know if we sit down with Mr. Johnston and explain what's going on, what we've got going, this can be saved," Franke said of K-Wings owner William Johnston. "I feel we owe this to the fans of Kalamazoo."
Attention fans of Kalamazoo: if Michael Franke thinks he owes you something...look out.

Quote:
[K-Wings owner William] Johnston said Wednesday, "Two weeks from now, you'll be able to see what we did and why we did it, and it'll make sense."
'Two weeks from now' is later stated in the article to be the ECHL meetings on 22 June.

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06-04-2009, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul-laus View Post
With the Gems playing out of Hara Arena in the I.H.L. beginning this fall, the Dayton Bombers returning to play in the ECHL is about as likely as the Reno Raiders were to be ready for the 2003-04 season. 'Aint happening.
Watch what McKenna has stated, paul

The Bombers will still be recognized as an ECHL market as is Dayton, OTHERWISE the Bombers would've forfeited and be subject to termination, not a suspension under the ECHL Law for failure to ice a team.

that's why Pensacola COULDN'T reacquire the Pilots name for their SPHL entry because the ECHL owns the name

Isn't the reason that Dayton needs a new facility other than the Nutter Center?

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06-05-2009, 09:30 AM
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With the Gems playing out of Hara Arena in the I.H.L. beginning this fall, the Dayton Bombers returning to play in the ECHL is about as likely as the Reno Raiders were to be ready for the 2003-04 season. 'Aint happening.
And the teams in Myrtle Beach and Burlington, VT.

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06-06-2009, 08:07 PM
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Isn't the reason that Dayton needs a new facility other than the Nutter Center?
Yeah. Dayton is in a tough spot in regards to Arenas. The Nutter Center is a very nice arena, but it is too large for the team, and too costly as well. Hara Arena is a good size arena for hockey, but it is very dilapidated and hasn't been renovated in eons. And both arenas polarize the fan base, because they are on opposite sides of the city and therefore attract attract people from differing suburbs. People have been proposing a smaller, modern, centralized arena in downtown Dayton, but I'm not sure that the idea will ever get off the ground.

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06-07-2009, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPIDER1 View Post
Yeah. Dayton is in a tough spot in regards to Arenas. The Nutter Center is a very nice arena, but it is too large for the team, and too costly as well. Hara Arena is a good size arena for hockey, but it is very dilapidated and hasn't been renovated in eons. And both arenas polarize the fan base, because they are on opposite sides of the city and therefore attract attract people from differing suburbs. People have been proposing a smaller, modern, centralized arena in downtown Dayton, but I'm not sure that the idea will ever get off the ground.
so Dayton's like what Cincinnati's been thx.

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06-08-2009, 02:01 PM
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so Dayton's like what Cincinnati's been thx.
Somewhat - but without the AHL aspect.

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06-09-2009, 01:23 PM
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The IHL announced the addition of the Dayton Gems for 2009-10 today (http://ihl-hockey.com/index.php/pres...he-dayton-gems), so that takes the league back up to six (assuming Flint is helped through their issues).

The future of K-zoo hockey should be formally announced sometime in the next two weeks, maybe as early as today.

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