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Expressen: Sedins ask for $63 million over 12 years each - Sedin Contract Talks Here

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06-15-2009, 11:23 PM
  #476
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They have missed the playoffs every 2nd year for 4 years. So I would say that there was 2 years in between.....uhm making the playoffs.

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06-15-2009, 11:27 PM
  #477
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What about the 2 years in between, when they failed to even lead the Canucks to playoff spots?
There's only one year between 2007 and 2009. And in 2008 both Sedins were right around their usual PPG pace.

I can understand the argument of wanting better players in their place, but my questions are, who are these better players, where are they coming from and how much do they cost? For the right price I have no problem bringing the Sedins back, but if I'm Gillis I'm also looking out for what is best for the team. My problem with the Sedin bashing is that many make it seem like it's their fault the Canucks' haven't gone further. To that I say, they aren't superstars and they can only do so much with a team that either has had little to no secondary scoring(07 post-season) or a team that's entire defense contingent **** the bed(09 post-season).

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06-15-2009, 11:35 PM
  #478
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digger, my man, you need to chill out and tone down the dogmatism. you're "disagreeing" with people who agree with a number of your points.

For example, I AGREE that signing the Sedins to a market value contract is likely to lead to more playoff mediocrity.

A point where you and I disagree is that I consider the D&Z contracts to be ALSO be mistakes on Detroit's part. It is a deviation from the plan that got them to where they are, and I expect that team have now peaked.

Pittsburgh is another disaster in the making, with even more bloated lopsided salary structure, but that has always been a poorly run franchise and anyway it's a story for another thread.

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They have missed the playoffs every 2nd year for 4 years. So I would say that there was 2 years in between.....uhm making the playoffs.
Two years, one season. There has not been two seasons between playoff appearances in quite a while.

 
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06-15-2009, 11:37 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
digger, my man, you need to chill out and tone down the dogmatism. you're "disagreeing" with people who agree with a number of your points.

For example, I AGREE that signing the Sedins to a market value contract is likely to lead to more playoff mediocrity.

A point where you and I disagree is that I consider the D&Z contracts to be ALSO be mistakes on Detroit's part. It is a deviation from the plan that got them to where they are, and I expect that team have now peaked.

Pittsburgh is another disaster in the making, with even more bloated lopsided salary structure, but that has always been a poorly run franchise and anyway it's a story for another thread.


That doesn't make any sense at all. Vancouver hasn't had a two year stretch without playoffs in quite some time.
Wait no, let's discuss this. You think it was bad management for Pittsburgh to re-sign 2 of the games top elite superstars? The elite of the elite?

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06-15-2009, 11:39 PM
  #480
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We can go through another season next year of the same results by the same players, or we can go in a new direction and at least try to acheive different results. Even if it means we have to have a bit of patience and develop top line players, who are willing to do all the little things to become winners. Doing the same things over and over and expecting the results to change is not growth, its crazyness!

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06-15-2009, 11:42 PM
  #481
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Uhm no......I am not going to get involved in any arguments that compare the Sedins to Dats and Zett, because in actuality there is not a GM in the whole league who would even consider a straight up trade that would see those 4 guys switch teams.

The bottom line

Datsyuk and Zetterburgh are proven winners
The Sedins are proven losers

Enough said!
Do you forget how Zetterburg and Dats were considered playoff flops for their first four years in the playoffs.The Sedins put up similar numbers like they did early in the playoffs,so this year they were point a game players ..they just need to be as productive and go deep and win the cup next year.

Evenstrength scoring they are both very similar in totals.....last three years Dats and Zett 307 ev str pts vs Sedins 304 ev str pts.....of course the Wings have a much more solid pp(lidstrom/Rafalski/Schneider)...and therby the Det duo put up more points.

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06-15-2009, 11:43 PM
  #482
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You think it was bad management for Pittsburgh to re-sign 2 of the games top elite superstars?
To those incredible contracts? Yes, I do. This coming season, they are going to have to replace a whole mess of players who contributed significantly - Guerrin, Fedotenko, Sykora, Satan, Gill - with scrubs making near league minimum.

I know it's heresy to suggest it, but Malkin's value will never be higher than it is right now. I'd package him up for the biggest bounty of first rounders ever offered up in trade in the history of this league.

 
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06-15-2009, 11:45 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
To those incredible contracts? Yes, I do. This coming season, they are going to have to replace a whole mess of players who contributed significantly - Guerrin, Fedotenko, Sykora, Satan, Gill - with scrubs making near league minimum.

I know it's heresy to suggest it, but Malkin's value will never be higher than it is right now. I'd package him up for the biggest bounty of first rounders ever offered up in trade in the history of this league.


So you would let Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin go, just to keep Ruslan Fedotenko and Hal Gil???


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06-15-2009, 11:46 PM
  #484
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Pittsburgh will be just fine moving forward, even if they have to deal Staal at some point, to stay under the cap. They will still be considered Cup contenders, because Crosby and Malkin are capable of carrying a team by making the other players around them better.

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06-15-2009, 11:47 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Cocomero View Post
The Ducks series? Where the same checking line that shutdown the Heatley-Spezza-Alfredsson line in the finals shut down the Sedins?
I hope we don't use the failing Sens as a model to emulate.

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06-15-2009, 11:51 PM
  #486
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I hope we don't use the failing Sens as a model to emulate.
I find it kind of hypocritical how most of the same people who use this excuse for the Sedins are also the ones saying that we shouldn't go after Dany Heatley. So to say, Heatley was 1/3rd of a line that was better than the Sedins but got shut down just like the Sedins, but we don't want any part of that line that was better, so let's just stay in our own relative mediocrity.

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06-15-2009, 11:53 PM
  #487
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So you would let Sidney Crosby or Evgeni Malkin go, just to keep Ruslan Fedotenko and Hal Gil???
And Guerin and a replacement for Gonchar and etc etc etc. Malkin's salary alone is enough to build very good third and fourth lines - and that's where Pittsburgh achilles heel is now going to be. Staal is mostly likely as good as gone in the next two seasons...

 
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06-15-2009, 11:54 PM
  #488
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I have a feeling the Sedins wont be brought back anyway......Then the argument will finally end. Eventually we will look back on it and recognize letting them walk was the best thing the Canucks could have done.

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06-15-2009, 11:56 PM
  #489
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Thats where you have to have the current flow of draftees to be constintent,good young players to fill spots at bargin prices.

Van was bone dry for the most part the last 10 yrs...so it will take time,to get that steady stream of draft picks filling in prominent roles,every year.

Sedins need to realize that if the ysign for 5 mil yr long term theb we can add a significant player to our squad with som of our draftees filling in...Grabner,Hodgson...
5.5 tough to do.....6 mil and we have a weaker team than this year.

Although i think the Sedins would settle for 5 mil frontloaded contract for 10 yrs and a NTC........there is a process where both sides work to that.....MG although comfortable with that may be seeing if it can be a cheaper cap hit,or shorter term.

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06-15-2009, 11:58 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I find it kind of hypocritical how most of the same people who use this excuse for the Sedins are also the ones saying that we shouldn't go after Dany Heatley. So to say, Heatley was 1/3rd of a line that was better than the Sedins but got shut down just like the Sedins, but we don't want any part of that line that was better, so let's just stay in our own relative mediocrity.
Is it worth it to spend the assets it would take to acquire Heatley if we don't have a legit playmaker to set him up? Without Spezza/Alfredsson does Heatley come close to being a back-to-back 50 goal scorer? Sure he got 41 goals his sophomore season, but he also had a lot of PP time with Kozlov and Kovalchuk as well as Marc Savard for just over half a season. Unless Gillis has a plan in place to acquire a legit playmaking center to pair with Heatley and the asking price isn't too extreme to land Heatley, I wouldn't want to see the Canucks go that route.

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06-16-2009, 12:09 AM
  #491
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Is it worth it to spend the assets it would take to acquire Heatley if we don't have a legit playmaker to set him up? Without Spezza/Alfredsson does Heatley come close to being a back-to-back 50 goal scorer? Sure he got 41 goals his sophomore season, but he also had a lot of PP time with Kozlov and Kovalchuk as well as Marc Savard for just over half a season. Unless Gillis has a plan in place to acquire a legit playmaking center to pair with Heatley and the asking price isn't too extreme to land Heatley, I wouldn't want to see the Canucks go that route.
Could we not have a line of Heatley-Wellwood-Gaborik?

Or what about signing Mike Cammalleri to center a line with Heatley?

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06-16-2009, 12:11 AM
  #492
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
And Guerin and a replacement for Gonchar and etc etc etc. Malkin's salary alone is enough to build very good third and fourth lines - and that's where Pittsburgh achilles heel is now going to be. Staal is mostly likely as good as gone in the next two seasons...
Wow...just wow....

And who do you think Pittsburgh should have just gotten rid of?

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06-16-2009, 12:14 AM
  #493
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And who do you think Pittsburgh should have just gotten rid of?
Malkin should be traded.

Sorry you haven't realized yet that hockey it's a team game.

Cheers.

 
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06-16-2009, 12:15 AM
  #494
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Could we not have a line of Heatley-Wellwood-Gaborik?
Where's the legit playmaker? And even then, what if Gaborik doesn't sign here?

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Or what about signing Mike Cammalleri to center a line with Heatley?
Who's distributing the puck? And since when has Cammy played regularly at center? He's an excellent face-off man but I've never seen him regularly line up at center and if he did he'd be eaten alive defensively.

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06-16-2009, 12:22 AM
  #495
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Malkin should be traded.

Sorry you haven't realized yet that hockey it's a team game.

Cheers.
Trade the league's leading scorer and reigning Conn Smythe trophy winner?

I'm honestly at a loss for words. In what world do you trade the Art Ross winner, the Conn Smythe winner, the Lester B Pearson and Hart trophy nominee just so you can keep a couple third liners?

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06-16-2009, 12:25 AM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Where's the legit playmaker? And even then, what if Gaborik doesn't sign here?
Wellwood is good at distributing the puck. Don't see how this line is too different from when Heatley was playing with Kovalchuk....except Gaborik is a better playmaker than Kovalchuk.

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Who's distributing the puck? And since when has Cammy played regularly at center? He's an excellent face-off man but I've never seen him regularly line up at center and if he did he'd be eaten alive defensively.
Well Daymond Langkow isn't exactly the greatest playmaker either but that line with Cammalleri and Iginla worked out pretty well.

Cammy has played as much center as O'Sullivan yet you seem to have thought O'Sullivan was a good enough candidate for the Oilers at center when you suggested they'd move Gagner for Heatley.

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06-16-2009, 12:26 AM
  #497
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Where's the legit playmaker? And even then, what if Gaborik doesn't sign here?



Who's distributing the puck? And since when has Cammy played regularly at center? He's an excellent face-off man but I've never seen him regularly line up at center and if he did he'd be eaten alive defensively.
Let's just say....
Heatley (7.5 mil) -Cammy (5.5 mil)- Gaborik (7mil) = 20 mil....

JESUS CHRIST. Goodbye Luongo, Goodbye Jaybo, Goodbye any FA.

Paugic at it's best.

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06-16-2009, 12:27 AM
  #498
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Trade the league's leading scorer and reigning Conn Smythe trophy winner?

I'm honestly at a loss for words. In what world do you trade the Art Ross winner, the Conn Smythe winner, the Lester B Pearson and Hart trophy nominee just so you can keep a couple third liners?
I gotta agree, trading Malkin isn't the way to go. Jordan Staal on the other hand, he's the most likely to be dealt. Talbot looks to be rounding into a nice 3rd line center and although Staal is definitely a better player, it's a luxury the team can't afford, unless of course they convert Staal to wing full-time and he can contribute offensively in that role. Moving Staal for a legit top 6 winger is probably the best route to go.

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06-16-2009, 12:29 AM
  #499
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Wellwood is good at distributing the puck. Don't see how this line is too different from when Heatley was playing with Kovalchuk....except Gaborik is a better playmaker than Kovalchuk.
Wellwood as the team's top center is laughable. And you didn't answer the question, what if Gaborik doesn't sign here? On to the next UFA?


Quote:
Cammy has played as much center as O'Sullivan yet you seem to have thought O'Sullivan was a good enough candidate for the Oilers at center when you suggested they'd move Gagner for Heatley.
So you agree then that having Cammalleri as the team's top center is foolish?

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06-16-2009, 12:40 AM
  #500
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Originally Posted by Cocomero View Post
Let's just say....
Heatley (7.5 mil) -Cammy (5.5 mil)- Gaborik (7mil) = 20 mil....

JESUS CHRIST. Goodbye Luongo, Goodbye Jaybo, Goodbye any FA.

Paugic at it's best.
Where did I suggest signing both Cammalleri and Gaborik?

Coco-reading comprehension at its best.

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