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Jordan Staal to Toronto.

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05-31-2009, 11:52 AM
  #1
Cleatus
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Jordan Staal to Toronto.

Assuming that Jordan Staal is put on the trade market, this is the offer that Burke should make for him.

To Pittsburgh: A 2010 1st round draft pick, Niklas Hagman, Matt Stajan, and a 2009 2nd round draft pick.
To Toronto: Jordan Staal, and return salary.

Pittsburgh gets a good 3rd line center in return, a speedy two-way top six winger, a 2010 1st round draft pick, and a 2009 2nd round draft pick.


Last edited by Cleatus: 05-31-2009 at 10:21 PM.
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05-31-2009, 11:55 AM
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good proposal

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05-31-2009, 11:58 AM
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I'd rather have Kulemin than Stajan, because Stajan doesn't fill a need.

Kulemin and the 2010 first might be okay if the Pens wanted to trade Staal.

Though I would not mind this deal.

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05-31-2009, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Assuming that the cap goes down significantly in the next few years, and Pittsburgh needs to clear some cap-space, this is the offer that Burke should make for Jordan Staal.

To Pittsburgh: A 2010 1st round draft pick, Matt Stajan, and a 2009 2nd round draft pick.
To Toronto: Jordan Staal.

Not only does Pittsburgh clear some salary, they get a good 3rd line center in return, along with a 2010 1st round draft pick, and a 2009 2nd round draft pick.
So with Burke saying the leafs will be spending up near the cap ceiling for next season,the Pens are likely looking at a mid 1st rounder in 2010?Maybe a pick around 20th?

They also get a good 3rd liner and a 2009 mid to late 2nd?

How can the Pens resist such an attractive package

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05-31-2009, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
So with Burke saying the leafs will be spending up near the cap ceiling for next season,the Pens are likely looking at a mid 1st rounder in 2010?Maybe a pick around 20th?

They also get a good 3rd liner and a 2009 mid to late 2nd?

How can the Pens resist such an attractive package
I'd say it's more like a top 15 pick. The Leafs aren't making the playoffs next year.

Next year's draft is also going to be very deep.

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05-31-2009, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letang58 View Post
I'd rather have Kulemin than Stajan, because Stajan doesn't fill a need.

Kulemin and the 2010 first might be okay if the Pens wanted to trade Staal.

Though I would not mind this deal.
LoL, Kulemin would look great on a line with Malkin.

However, I'd be very hard-pressed to give him up. Besides, if the Pens trade their third line center (Staal), they're going to need a third line center to replace him.

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05-31-2009, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
I'd say it's more like a top 15 pick. The Leafs aren't making the playoffs next year.

Next year's draft is also going to be very deep.

Ron Wilson had the leafs playing very competitive hockey in the 2nd half.With Burke saying they'll spend on ufas this summer,I think the leafs will be in the mix for one of the last playoff spots.They may not make the postseason next season,but I don't expect another top 10 pick for the Leafs next summer.

Young Staal's contract is very reasonable.I think he's worth a heck of a lot more then a solid 3rd liner,a mid-late 2009 2nd rounder and what will likely be a mid 1st rounder in 2010.If I'm in the Pens front office,I want a cheap impact player coming back as the key piece.A Dustin Brown/ Fedor Tyutin type youngster.

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05-31-2009, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
LoL, Kulemin would look great on a line with Malkin.

However, I'd be very hard-pressed to give him up. Besides, if the Pens trade their third line center (Staal), they're going to need a third line center to replace him.
Talbot can fill that role easily.

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05-31-2009, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Ron Wilson had the leafs playing very competitive hockey in the 2nd half.With Burke saying they'll spend on ufas this summer,I think the leafs will be in the mix for one of the last playoff spots.They may not make the postseason next season,but I don't expect another top 10 pick for the Leafs next summer.

Young Staal's contract is very reasonable.I think he's worth a heck of a lot more then a solid 3rd liner,a mid-late 2009 2nd rounder and what will likely be a mid 1st rounder in 2010.If I'm in the Pens front office,I want a cheap impact player coming back as the key piece.A Dustin Brown/ Fedor Tyutin type youngster.
Alright, Staal may be a former 2nd overall pick, but the fact is that with increased ice-time, his stats have actually decreased since his great rookie year. You're not going to get much more for him than a mid-1st in 2010, especially since it's a very deep draft.

Be honest. Do you think Staal on his own is worth a top 10 pick in this year's draft?

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05-31-2009, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Be honest. Do you think Staal on his own is worth a top 10 pick in this year's draft?
Yes. I would probably trade 4th overall for Staal right now.

Top 3, I'm not sure. Maybe. Age is pretty much a wash between any player drafted now and Jordan Staal, talent is pretty much a wash, but Staal has proven a lot more than them.

Only player I for sure wouldn't take Staal for would be hedman. I just like franchise D men too much.

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05-31-2009, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abyss View Post
Talbot can fill that role easily.
Here's another thing... In a scoring role, Stajan put up 50 points. He's also very good at face-offs. If Pittsburgh were to move Stajan to the second line, they'd have one crazy elite line (Crosby and Malkin together), along with a good second line.

Stajan is not a natural goal-scorer, but he's a good playmaker, and he's starting to come into his own in that department. With the right linemates, he's easily a 50-60 point player.

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05-31-2009, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
Here's another thing... In a scoring role, Stajan put up 50 points. He's also very good at face-offs. If Pittsburgh were to move Stajan to the second line, they'd have one crazy elite line (Crosby and Malkin together), along with a good second line.
They tried that already. Malkin is infinitely better when he's centering his own line. Remember last year when Crosby went down and Malkin started tearing the league up?

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05-31-2009, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Yes. I would probably trade 4th overall for Staal right now.

Top 3, I'm not sure. Maybe. Age is pretty much a wash between any player drafted now and Jordan Staal, talent is pretty much a wash, but Staal has proven a lot more than them.

Only player I for sure wouldn't take Staal for would be hedman. I just like franchise D men too much.
I think that would be the dumbest trade in the world. I'm sure that Atlanta's GM would want atleast an additional 1st coming their way, and probably a 2nd as well.

No one should trade out of the top 5 unless they're getting a franchise player in return. Staal is pretty good, but he hasn't shown any signs of being elite.

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05-31-2009, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
They tried that already. Malkin is infinitely better when he's centering his own line. Remember last year when Crosby went down and Malkin started tearing the league up?
I find that he's just as effective in either role (center or wing).

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05-31-2009, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
I think that would be the dumbest trade in the world. I'm sure that Atlanta's GM would want atleast an additional 1st coming their way, and probably a 2nd as well.

No one should trade out of the top 5 unless they're getting a franchise player in return. Staal is pretty good, but he hasn't shown any signs of being elite.
You highly over value draft picks. Not only would Atlanta be getting an amazingly skilled centre to play with Kovalchuk, they would be getting an elite defensive centre. Mark my words, Staal will be up for some Selke awards during his career.

Plus, you realize the quality of players Staal is left to play with on the third line? Even ignoring the fact he gets almost no PP time with Crosby/Malkin/Gonchar just staying on the full 2 minutes?

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05-31-2009, 01:23 PM
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good proposal
Not for the Pens it's not. For all we know the Leafs could sign the Sedin bros + Bouwmeester, go all the way to the eastern conference finals and the Pens would get the 25th pick in a draft weaker then this one...

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05-31-2009, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
I find that he's just as effective in either role (center or wing).
He got 85 points his first year, on Crosby's wing.

He got 41 points in 22 games while Crosby was injured last year.

He won the Art Ross this year centering his own line.

All signs point to him being better when he centers his own line.

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05-31-2009, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
You highly over value draft picks. Not only would Atlanta be getting an amazingly skilled centre to play with Kovalchuk, they would be getting an elite defensive centre. Mark my words, Staal will be up for some Selke awards during his career.

Plus, you realize the quality of players Staal is left to play with on the third line? Even ignoring the fact he gets almost no PP time with Crosby/Malkin/Gonchar just staying on the full 2 minutes?
These are all your opinions. Staal doesn't have anywhere near the value of what you're saying (seriously, a 4th overall pick?).

And yes, the value of picks in this year's and next year's drafts are sky high. We're talking about two very deep drafts. GM's will be very reluctant to give up picks in either of these drafts, whether it's an early or late pick.

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05-31-2009, 01:30 PM
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Alright, Staal may be a former 2nd overall pick, but the fact is that with increased ice-time, his stats have actually decreased since his great rookie year.


Stall had 42 pts his rookie yr and 49 pts this yr.

You're not going to get much more for him than a mid-1st in 2010, especially since it's a very deep draft.

I think GMs that think he could be a #1 center would be willing to offer up young nhl talent back or a top prospect as the key return.Why would the Pens,trying to win now,want a mid 2010 first rounder?A player who's probably several yrs from making the nhl club and contributing?


Quote:
Be honest. Do you think Staal on his own is worth a top 10 pick in this year's draft?
I wouldn't offer up one of the top 3 picks for him,but if I'm drafting 4th-10th,then yeah I seriously consider a deal for the 4th-10th picks for Stall.He's what 22 yrs old?You're posting as if he's at the end of his career instead of at the beginning.

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05-31-2009, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Not for the Pens it's not. For all we know the Leafs could sign the Sedin bros + Bouwmeester, go all the way to the eastern conference finals and the Pens would get the 25th pick in a draft weaker then this one...
Likely not going to happen.

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05-31-2009, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
These are all your opinions. Staal doesn't have anywhere near the value of what you're saying (seriously, a 4th overall pick?).

And yes, the value of picks in this year's and next year's drafts are sky high. We're talking about two very deep drafts. GM's will be very reluctant to give up picks in either of these drafts, whether it's an early or late pick.
Who else's opinions would they be?

You asked if people would seriously give up a top 10 draft pick this year for Jordan Staal and I said I would. I'm obviously not speaking on behalf of the 30 GMs when I say this.

I would rather go with a guy who has proven he can fill multiple roles in the NHL and still has sky high potential than take a chance on someone with loads of potential but not much else.

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05-31-2009, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Alright, Staal may be a former 2nd overall pick, but the fact is that with increased ice-time, his stats have actually decreased since his great rookie year.


Stall had 42 pts his rookie yr and 49 pts this yr.

You're not going to get much more for him than a mid-1st in 2010, especially since it's a very deep draft.

I think GMs that think he could be a #1 center would be willing to offer up young nhl talent back or a top prospect as the key return.Why would the Pens,trying to win now,want a mid 2010 first rounder?A player who's probably several yrs from making the nhl club and contributing?

I wouldn't offer up one of the top 3 picks for him,but if I'm drafting 4th-10th,then yeah I seriously consider a deal for the 4th-10th picks for Stall.He's what 22 yrs old?You're posting as if he's at the end of his career instead of at the beginning.
No GM will give up a top 10 pick for him.

Again, this trade was assuming that Pittsburgh needs to clear space. If they're clearing space, they can't take back an expensive player, they're going to want draft picks, and a cheap player that could fill his third line center role.

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05-31-2009, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleatus View Post
I think that would be the dumbest trade in the world. I'm sure that Atlanta's GM would want atleast an additional 1st coming their way, and probably a 2nd as well.

No one should trade out of the top 5 unless they're getting a franchise player in return. Staal is pretty good, but he hasn't shown any signs of being elite.
I don't think any of the teams picking top 3 should trade out of the top 3,but I think you are overrating the top 5 by expecting the teams picking 4th and 5th to land a possible franchise player for their picks.

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05-31-2009, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
Who else's opinions would they be?

You asked if people would seriously give up a top 10 draft pick this year for Jordan Staal and I said I would. I'm obviously not speaking on behalf of the 30 GMs when I say this.

I would rather go with a guy who has proven he can fill multiple roles in the NHL and still has sky high potential than take a chance on someone with loads of potential but not much else.
Fair enough.

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05-31-2009, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
I don't think any of the teams picking top 3 should trade out of the top 3,but I think you are overrating the top 5 by expecting the teams picking 4th and 5th to land a possible franchise player for their picks.
Atlanta's GM has stated that he wants one of Duchene (not going to get him), Kane, or Schenn. He's not trading that pick.

At 5th overall, you have Phoenix, who need defense much more than a center. I'm sure they'll take Cowen. Again, they're not going to trade that pick (they actually might if it only means moving down a spot or two).

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