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Old
06-03-2009, 12:54 PM
  #26
Letang fan 58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ti-girl View Post
Thelen did nothing to bolster the defense. He was the weakest player on the backend that Memorial Cup year and the smaller players gave him fits.

He was a softer, less moblie version of Hal Gill.
I assure you that is not correct. There is no less mobile version of Hal Gill.

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06-03-2009, 01:03 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
why wasn't Burns thought to be a 1st round prospect?

... I know it was common wisdom back then, but was wrong with him?
Nothing really wrong, the '03 Draft was ridiculously deep as well. Off the top of my head Burns was flipping in between defense and forward, so teams didn't have an exact read of where he was. So Minnesota was drafting moreso on upside rather than tangible production.

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06-03-2009, 01:07 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaneuf_fan_3 View Post
I assure you that is not correct. There is no less mobile version of Hal Gill.
You did not see Thelen try to take on the Tigers for 7 games that year.

It was sad. Dorsett-Helm-Stevens and ESPECIALLY Bosh-Todd-Ennis gave him fits. It was like watching a one legged blind dinosaur that has recently had a lobtomy chase down boston terriers. He'd aim for one...and the other would go in and score. He'd chase the other one around...and the other would go in and score.

Kind of like watching a car wreck. You're embarrassed, sad and angry...but can't turn away...

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Old
06-03-2009, 01:12 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
The rumors were that he liked to party too much and not work hard enough. I don't know if that is true, or not, but that was the speculation I remember. Again, should be taken with a grain of salt.
It's 100% true. I can't confirm it with anything in writing, but I know for a fact from a few sources I had at the time that it was 100% true and was what brought him down.

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Old
06-03-2009, 01:13 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a79krgm View Post
When the Wild drafted Thelen I was surprised and I knew it was a gamble. However, I was still excited because at that time I thought the Wild scouting staff were gods and I trusted their judgment. After all they had recently gambled on Brent Burns who really wasn't supposed to go in the 1st and they pulled it off like geniuses.

I guess Thelen can help the club in the future by serving as an example for prospects to not let their draft status go to their head and to work hard on and off the ice.
Thelen wasn't really seen as a huge gamble by a lot of people other than those in the know about his character.

He was a very talented guy who had a few red flags here and there, but nothing that would say, "FAILURE" or anything like that.

Thelen didn't really let his draft status go to his head. He was the same person before and after. He didn't change a thing, which was his major problem.

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Old
06-04-2009, 05:01 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
why wasn't Burns thought to be a 1st round prospect?

... I know it was common wisdom back then, but was wrong with him?
Burns was a mystery pick at the time because when he got drafted and played for Brampton he was a right winger. He also grew that year tremendously and needed to get used to his size. He was considered a major project because he only played one year as a right winger. He had the athleticism but he didn't have the abilities yet to go along with it. Basically he was a power forward project.

Because of the Wild didn't understand what they were doing with Burns until a few years ago, they needed a high end defenseman. They picked Thelen over Stafford because Thelen filled a need for them at the time. In hindsight, Stafford would have filled the need the Wild needed at the time and that was a big body presence. Then the Wild went south drafting after that. Sheppard was picked because Burns was now full time defenseman and they needed a power forward, well sort of. Sheppard fit that roll. And then picked Gilles for God knows why. I guess because he was a tough, gritty winger that could fly.

But yeah...the Wild didn't really know what they were getting with Burns and so that affected every draft after that.

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Old
06-04-2009, 06:32 AM
  #32
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instead of starting a new thread for each and every guy, I'll post them all here ... btw, as someone said before, let me know if there were red flags or many red flags a la Adam Pacman Jones before they got drafted ...

what went wrong with Pavel Brendl?

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Old
06-04-2009, 06:46 AM
  #33
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Brendl could never skate worth a damn, which means he couldn't create much on his own at all, and basically just has an awesome shot. But his skating and other assets are so poor that he never could find success even as a triggerman in the NHL.

Also had work ethic problems...never put in the work to become a better skater and get into better shape.

Even though he's having some success now in other leagues, it's easy to look at his stats and guess that he's doing it all based on just having an awesome shot and not much else. At the NHL level where there's a lot less room, he just couldn't be effective

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Old
06-04-2009, 08:00 AM
  #34
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did Ray Whitney opt out of the 1990 entry draft or did he go undrafted?

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Old
06-04-2009, 08:33 AM
  #35
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what about Daniel Tkaczuk?

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Old
06-04-2009, 10:06 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
what went wrong with Pavel Brendl?


+



=


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Old
06-04-2009, 10:36 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by DeuceUNO View Post
I wanted Wojtek Wolski. More for the name, but I like the kid as a player.

But I digress...

I've spent some time with the Thelen family a few summers ago, and was told from both AJ and his dad that Coach Rick Comley had begun treating him differently after he was drafted his freshman year. Thelen mentioned that it was a common theme that led to a couple players leaving MSU early in previous years- I wish I could remember the names he mentioned, but I think Brock Radunske was one of them.
He also intimated that the whole "caught drinking" issue was that one of his fellow defenseman snitched on him, presumably for more ice time. An ankle injury slowed him sophomore year, and by the time he was booted off it was too late for him to join Prince Albert's roster, essentially wasting an entire year of development.

He's an impressive kid physically, but he can be brash and arrogant as well. Great skater too.

Take it for what its worth, since there are two sides to the story, but from what I was told it seemed kind of like a bum rap at MSU and his development stalled...or the kid just caught lightning in a bottle for a year.

Whatever the story is...I'd rather have Wojtek Wolski.
If it was a matter of the coach being too tough on him why didn't Thelen show any more promise after getting away from said coach? I think this "failed pick" sits squarely on the player.

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Old
06-04-2009, 11:21 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
what about Daniel Tkaczuk?
I vaguely remember him. He was part of a string of really bad picks in the "dark years" - like Marty Murray and Rico Fata.

In fairness to Tkaczuk though, he started off ok. I think he suffered a major concussion fairly early on though and was never really the same after he came back. He may have suffered more than one. I can't really remember.

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Old
06-04-2009, 11:35 AM
  #39
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If Brendl worked hard and improved his skating to the point where he was an adequate NHL skater he could have been a very good goal scorer.

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Old
06-04-2009, 11:38 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madmike77 View Post
I vaguely remember him. He was part of a string of really bad picks in the "dark years" - like Marty Murray and Rico Fata.

In fairness to Tkaczuk though, he started off ok. I think he suffered a major concussion fairly early on though and was never really the same after he came back. He may have suffered more than one. I can't really remember.
yeah, if you want to have nightmares look at the 1999 draft

... how bout Ramzi Abid, Doug Lynch and Christian Dubé?


Last edited by Mathletic: 06-04-2009 at 02:34 PM.
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Old
06-04-2009, 12:19 PM
  #41
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I seen him 3 times in his freshman year and he impressed the hell out of me. I thought he was a sure fire Wade Redden type defensmen.

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Old
06-04-2009, 12:48 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by ecemleafs View Post
If Brendl worked hard
And therein lies the problem

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Old
06-04-2009, 01:39 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
yeah, if you want to have nightmares look at the 1999 draft

... how bout Ramzi Abid and Christian Dubé?
I only really remember the Flames bad picks. They missed the playoffs a lot of years in the late 90s and early 2000s, but never really got anything to show for it out of the draft.

Part of the problem was that while they stunk, they could never stink badly enough. I think their highest pick was 5th overall. I think the lesson is if you're going to stink and you're going to stink for a while, you might as well go all-out and reap the rewards like the Pens, Caps, etc.

EDIT: Apparently I was wrong. The highest the Flames have picked in 29 years in Calgary is 6th. Too bad there's no reward for mediocrity


Last edited by madmike77: 06-04-2009 at 01:47 PM.
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Old
06-04-2009, 01:49 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by madmike77 View Post
I only really remember the Flames bad picks. They missed the playoffs a lot of years in the late 90s and early 2000s, but never really got anything to show for it out of the draft.

Part of the problem was that while they stunk, they could never stink badly enough. I think their highest pick was 5th overall. I think the lesson is if you're going to stink and you're going to stink for a while, you might as well go all-out and reap the rewards like the Pens, Caps, etc.
we (the Caps) cant even beat the Pens at stinking - starting in 2002 the Pens had drafted:

2002 #5 - Ryan Whitney
2003 #1 - Marc-Andre Fleury
2004 #2 - Evgeni Malkin
2005 #1 - Sidney Crosby
2006 #2 - Jordan Staal

compare the Caps thru that timespan:

2002 #12 & #13 - Steve Eminger & Alexander Semin
2003 #18 - Eric "shoulda drafted Getzlaf" Fehr
2004 #1 - Alexander Ovechkin
2005 #14 - Sasha "who?" Pokulok
2006 #5 - Nick Backstrom



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Old
06-04-2009, 01:57 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by madmike77 View Post
I only really remember the Flames bad picks. They missed the playoffs a lot of years in the late 90s and early 2000s, but never really got anything to show for it out of the draft.

Part of the problem was that while they stunk, they could never stink badly enough. I think their highest pick was 5th overall. I think the lesson is if you're going to stink and you're going to stink for a while, you might as well go all-out and reap the rewards like the Pens, Caps, etc.

EDIT: Apparently I was wrong. The highest the Flames have picked in 29 years in Calgary is 6th. Too bad there's no reward for mediocrity
We've had three 6th overall picks in our history. Only one turned out. Cory Stillman. The other two was Daniel Tzachuk and Rico Fata

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Old
06-04-2009, 02:28 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Roccoman View Post
we (the Caps) cant even beat the Pens at stinking - starting in 2002 the Pens had drafted:

2002 #5 - Ryan Whitney
2003 #1 - Marc-Andre Fleury
2004 #2 - Evgeni Malkin
2005 #1 - Sidney Crosby
2006 #2 - Jordan Staal

compare the Caps thru that timespan:

2002 #12 & #13 - Steve Eminger & Alexander Semin
2003 #18 - Eric "shoulda drafted Getzlaf" Fehr
2004 #1 - Alexander Ovechkin
2005 #14 - Sasha "who?" Pokulok
2006 #5 - Nick Backstrom


Ok I take it back. Just the Pens. For five straight years they picked higher than the Flames have ever picked (in Calgary anyway). At least it paid off for them.

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Old
06-04-2009, 02:44 PM
  #47
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just a hypothesis, but regarding the horrible late 90s drafts, most notably the 1999 draft, do you think steroids and various growth products could explain a part of why there were so many busts during those years?

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Old
06-04-2009, 04:11 PM
  #48
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I seen him 3 times in his freshman year and he impressed the hell out of me.
I thought he was a sure fire Wade Redden type defensmen.
Failure my friend, starts and ends with this...

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Old
06-04-2009, 05:18 PM
  #49
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anyone remembers if Doug Lynch's 215 pounds was more fat than muscle? ... and Drew Doughty?

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Old
06-04-2009, 05:22 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FSU Seminoles View Post
anyone remembers if Doug Lynch's 215 pounds was more fat than muscle? ... and Drew Doughty?
There was a reason that Doughty's nickname used to be "Doughnut"

But he worked really hard during the offseason of 2008 to get rid of the fat, which he did quite succesfully.

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