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Bryan Little to Toronto.

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Old
06-02-2009, 08:41 PM
  #51
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The Thrashers are one of the few teams that doesn't have a need for an offensive defenseman, so making Kaberle the centerpiece of a deal doesn't make sense. The Thrashers moving one of their few young talented forwards also doesn't help them all that much either.

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06-02-2009, 08:47 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
i'd say schenn has a bit of an edge on defense but bogosian could be putting up close to greene numbers pretty soon while being atlanta's top d-man in the defensive aspects as well

not to mention he took on donald brashear in his first ever nhl game and won
That is an overstatement dont you think?

Greene had that much cause he had 4 elite players with him, there is no way a defenseman can score as many points as Greene these days without a supporting cast like he has. Same with Lidstrom, he is amazing, but alot of his points are due to multiple elite players in Detroit.

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06-02-2009, 08:49 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
counter proposal

to toronto
hainsey
machacek

to atlanta
schenn

it's about the same tyhing really, maybe hainsey is a little less skilled than kaberel but he did score 35+ points with limited powerplay time and machacek is a skilled ahler that could be in the nhl next season

seems pretty damn stupid now doesn't it
This is a lot worse than the original proposal. Kaberle is a hell of a lot better than Hainsey, Tlusty is a better prospect than Machacek, and there is no future 1st rounder. I see what youre doing here, but if you really think its similar youre far off.

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06-02-2009, 08:50 PM
  #54
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Bogosian is the first player I have ever seen Ilya actually look for on the ice. He has a rocket from the point, and if Anderson keeps giving him a long leash in the offensive zone...he could crack 30 goals at some point in his career.

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06-02-2009, 08:51 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
white scored 78 points last year. peverley was nearly a point per game after being traded to atlanta

maybe peverley isn't an all-star but white certainly is a legitimate top 6 forward
White's point totals by year:

50
60
29
40
44
37
73

One of these things is not like the other. He's not a bad player, but to rely on him to be anything more than a 15-30-45 guy is foolish. Guys like that shouldn't be your 2nd line C.

In other words, he's a great 3rd liner and an OK 2nd liner. If you need him to repeat last year's performance, you're going to be in trouble

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06-02-2009, 08:52 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by LIMITING REAGENT View Post
That is an overstatement dont you think?

Greene had that much cause he had 4 elite players with him, there is no way a defenseman can score as many points as Greene these days without a supporting cast like he has. Same with Lidstrom, he is amazing, but alot of his points are due to multiple elite players in Detroit.
Bogosian will be a 45+ point defenseman. That said, I definitely agree. First of all I don't believe that Bogo is as good as either of those defenseman but I'd say it's alot easier to put up 65+ points with Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Federove or Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Rafalski, Franzen then Kovalchuk, Kozlov, Little, Enstrom.

Maybe if they get another superstar forward then one day he will put up similar numbers... but it is unlikely.

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06-02-2009, 09:02 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Regin 43 View Post
Bogosian will be a 45+ point defenseman. That said, I definitely agree. First of all I don't believe that Bogo is as good as either of those defenseman but I'd say it's alot easier to put up 65+ points with Ovechkin, Semin, Backstrom, Federove or Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Rafalski, Franzen then Kovalchuk, Kozlov, Little, Enstrom.

Maybe if they get another superstar forward then one day he will put up similar numbers... but it is unlikely.
Yes, definately i beleive that Bogosian will be a 45 + pts defenceman. One thing with Greene though, his defensive game is a little weak, Bogosian i think will be much better in his own zone, while putting up around 50 pts.

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06-02-2009, 09:03 PM
  #58
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The only reason Tomas Kaberle is an "all-star defenseman" is that there had to be one Maple Leaf representative at the All-Star game.

In his NHL career, he's never been named to either the first or second All-Star Team.
* Named to NHL All-Star Team - 2002, 2007, 2008, 2009
* Won NHL All-Star game accuracy competition - 2007-08
Mats Sundin, Alexander Mogilny, Bryan McCabe 1 of which were on the team in each season asides this season.

Gets 45-60 points in a season, great contract and is in the top 15% of D for in his own end whether he is physical or not...

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06-02-2009, 09:03 PM
  #59
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Why on earth would Atlanta want to give up a young forward with great potential for a defenseman over the age of 30?

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06-02-2009, 09:04 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by LIMITING REAGENT View Post
That is an overstatement dont you think?

Greene had that much cause he had 4 elite players with him, there is no way a defenseman can score as many points as Greene these days without a supporting cast like he has. Same with Lidstrom, he is amazing, but alot of his points are due to multiple elite players in Detroit.
It also helps when you don't play Defence.

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06-02-2009, 09:05 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by LIMITING REAGENT View Post
That is an overstatement dont you think?

Greene had that much cause he had 4 elite players with him, there is no way a defenseman can score as many points as Greene these days without a supporting cast like he has. Same with Lidstrom, he is amazing, but alot of his points are due to multiple elite players in Detroit.
Green would still be good for around 60 points in Atlanta.

Green has two major aspects to his offense - he's excellent at carrying the puck in (often his break-ins are catalysts for Capitals' zone time) and he's excellent and cherry-picking while in the zone (his insane PP totals have to do with him creeping off into the slot with nobody noticing). So, basically, he benefits a lot from open ice. There's only one player in the league who creates as much open ice as Ovechkin does and he plays in Atlanta. He's also a more consistent puck carrier than Ovechkin.

If Atlanta has a superfast defenseman (like Campbell, which is why I'm guessing they pushed for his so badly) to play with Kovalchuk, the play of both would rise tremendously. Not sure about how fast either Hainsey or Enstrom are (from what I've seen, not very, but I don't watch Atlanta that often), but Bogosian seems to be the real deal in that regard.

Atlanta is one great physical stay at home guy from being a major threat. Which is why I think they should shop the #4 pick for some package around Volchenkov or Regehr .

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06-02-2009, 09:09 PM
  #62
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"Green would still be good for around 60 points in Atlanta.

Green has two major aspects to his offense - he's excellent at carrying the puck in (often his break-ins are catalysts for Capitals' zone time) and he's excellent and cherry-picking while in the zone (his insane PP totals have to do with him creeping off into the slot with nobody noticing). So, basically, he benefits a lot from open ice. There's only one player in the league who creates as much open ice as Ovechkin does and he plays in Atlanta. He's also a more consistent puck carrier than Ovechkin".




Green better improve his defencive play or soon people will realise that he is below average on D. Most of his numbers coming on the power play. In a 5 on 5 situation or a PK he is just as good as Tom Poti. Also, he trys for the breakaway; breakout pass everytime often leading to a bad turnover.

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06-02-2009, 09:16 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Green would still be good for around 60 points in Atlanta.

Green has two major aspects to his offense - he's excellent at carrying the puck in (often his break-ins are catalysts for Capitals' zone time) and he's excellent and cherry-picking while in the zone (his insane PP totals have to do with him creeping off into the slot with nobody noticing). So, basically, he benefits a lot from open ice. There's only one player in the league who creates as much open ice as Ovechkin does and he plays in Atlanta. He's also a more consistent puck carrier than Ovechkin.

If Atlanta has a superfast defenseman (like Campbell, which is why I'm guessing they pushed for his so badly) to play with Kovalchuk, the play of both would rise tremendously. Not sure about how fast either Hainsey or Enstrom are (from what I've seen, not very, but I don't watch Atlanta that often), but Bogosian seems to be the real deal in that regard.

Atlanta is one great physical stay at home guy from being a major threat. Which is why I think they should shop the #4 pick for some package around Volchenkov or Regehr .
Yes, Greene does have great puck moving skills, and does find open spaces. With Kovalchuk, Bogosian could do that too, but the thing is, when you have Ovechkin, Backstrom and Semin (not sure here) playing on the same PP unit, that gives Greene a much better oppurtunity than say Kovalchuk and Little with Bogosian. But i do agree that Atlanta is one physical player away from being a real threat. Thats why i feel they should definately take Kane, or if they want a dman, drop to 6 and pick up Cowen. Who knows, they could even move up to 2 and take Hedman, although it is highly unlikely.


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06-02-2009, 09:16 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Green would still be good for around 60 points in Atlanta.

Green has two major aspects to his offense - he's excellent at carrying the puck in (often his break-ins are catalysts for Capitals' zone time) and he's excellent and cherry-picking while in the zone (his insane PP totals have to do with him creeping off into the slot with nobody noticing). So, basically, he benefits a lot from open ice. There's only one player in the league who creates as much open ice as Ovechkin does and he plays in Atlanta. He's also a more consistent puck carrier than Ovechkin.

If Atlanta has a superfast defenseman (like Campbell, which is why I'm guessing they pushed for his so badly) to play with Kovalchuk, the play of both would rise tremendously. Not sure about how fast either Hainsey or Enstrom are (from what I've seen, not very, but I don't watch Atlanta that often), but Bogosian seems to be the real deal in that regard.

Atlanta is one great physical stay at home guy from being a major threat. Which is why I think they should shop the #4 pick for some package around Volchenkov or Regehr .

Or trade down to take Cowan and build your future around Lehtonen/Pavelec and Cowan/Bogosian/Enstrom


EDIT:: Aww I was beat to it.

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06-02-2009, 09:32 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Regin 43 View Post
Or trade down to take Cowan and build your future around Lehtonen/Pavelec and Cowan/Bogosian/Enstrom


EDIT:: Aww I was beat to it.
Dunno. Defensemen (unless they're an absolutely sure thing, in that case they go top 5) are generally much bigger gambles than forwards. In all likeliness Cowen/Kulikov won't be ready next season and should be given a year in the AHL. If they want to win now in order to convince Kovachuk to stay, I'd say Volchenkov is the best bet (since Regehr is probably untouchable). Something like Volchenkov + Foligno (adequate young winger for Kovalchuk's line) for 4th overall + Valabik + ??? would tremendously improve Atlanta. Kovalchuk would probably prefer to stay if there was more Russians on the team as well. Since Kovalchuk Russia.

Atlanta could trade for Witt (pretty good stay at home defenseman despite his numbers), but would have to overpay (though not to the tune of 4th overall). With Bogosian and Enstrom looking like a potent pair what they're really looking for is some guy who doesn't make Hainsey look like a dumb*** every time there's an opposing rush when he's on the ice. Possibly a consistent #5/#6 guy like Skrasnis, Scuderi or Jeff Schultz (take him please). One of those paired with Salmella and they have 3 pairings capable of at least 2nd pairing duty.

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06-02-2009, 09:36 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by LeafsGetTavares View Post
[I]
Green better improve his defencive play or soon people will realise that he is below average on D. Most of his numbers coming on the power play. In a 5 on 5 situation or a PK he is just as good as Tom Poti. Also, he trys for the breakaway; breakout pass everytime often leading to a bad turnover.
He was playing with one shoulder in Pittsburgh.

I agree that he has to improve his defensive play, but (1) he's better defensively than most people give him credit for, (2) he plays in a system where very little attention is paid to defense, and (3) he's still only 24 years old. Given age, contract status and productivity, I'd take him over just about any defenseman in the league not on an ELC.

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06-02-2009, 09:36 PM
  #67
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Actually that's 22 years old. Point stands.

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06-02-2009, 09:42 PM
  #68
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Dunno. Defensemen (unless they're an absolutely sure thing, in that case they go top 5) are generally much bigger gambles than forwards. In all likeliness Cowen/Kulikov won't be ready next season and should be given a year in the AHL. If they want to win now in order to convince Kovachuk to stay, I'd say Volchenkov is the best bet (since Regehr is probably untouchable). Something like Volchenkov would tremendously improve Atlanta+ Foligno (adequate young winger for Kovalchuk's line) for 4th overall + Valabik + ??? . Kovalchuk would probably prefer to stay if there was more Russians on the team as well. Since Kovalchuk Russia.

Atlanta could trade for Witt (pretty good stay at home defenseman despite his numbers), but would have to overpay (though not to the tune of 4th overall). With Bogosian and Enstrom looking like a potent pair what they're really looking for is some guy who doesn't make Hainsey look like a dumb*** every time there's an opposing rush when he's on the ice. Possibly a consistent #5/#6 guy like Skrasnis, Scuderi or Jeff Schultz (take him please). One of those paired with Salmella and they have 3 pairings capable of at least 2nd pairing duty.
I don't think the bolded trade works mainly because of the underlined part. We give away our best forward outside of our top 3 IMO and one of the best defensive defenseman in the game on a great contract for Valabik (who is good but not that good) and a draft pick.

Maybe I'm being a homer but how about:

Volchenkov, 2nd, Kelly
for
ATL 1st, White



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06-02-2009, 09:50 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by DougGilmour93 View Post
More like Kaberle for Little +
You are joking right? I understand Kaberle is a good dman but some people around here over rate him big time.

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06-02-2009, 09:53 PM
  #70
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You are joking right? I understand Kaberle is a good dman but some people around here over rate him big time.
nono, he's right... this trade doesn't work without 3 of (we'll be nice and let Atlanta choose which 3) Bogosion, Kovalchuk, Lehtonen, Pavelec, Enstrom are added in to the trade. Even then Toronto might want a 2010 1st to go along with that package.

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06-02-2009, 09:58 PM
  #71
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06-02-2009, 10:12 PM
  #72
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I don't think the bolded trade works mainly because of the underlined part. We give away our best forward outside of our top 3 IMO and one of the best defensive defenseman in the game on a great contract for Valabik (who is good but not that good) and a draft pick.

Maybe I'm being a homer but how about:

Volchenkov, 2nd, Kelly
for
ATL 1st, White

Don't see White leaving Atlanta after producing so well on their 2nd line. He's a 70+ pointman to them and a ~45 pointman to other teams. On a great contrct as well If a trade like that went through it would only be realistic if Atlanta gets Ottawa's 9th back, and Volchenkov for White is a tradeoff for moving down 5 roster spots.

Kelly + Volchenkov + 3rd/4th for 4th overall + Exelby seems reasonable to me (though I'm not a Thrashers fan). Kelly + Armstrong would be the foundation of a very good two way 3rd line, and Kelly can be relied on for temporary 2nd line duty. Volchenkov's addition would probably put Atlanta at or near playoff contention. He can be a difference between winning and losing a ton of otherwise close games. Ottawa loses its best defensive defenseman in Volchenkov but they've got like 7 NHL ready D prospects as it is. With the two picks, they could realistically obtain 1st or 2nd overall, or just draft Kane as Alfredsson's future successor and Cowen for D and be a force in the future.

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06-02-2009, 11:17 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by LIMITING REAGENT View Post
Yes, Greene does have great puck moving skills, and does find open spaces. With Kovalchuk, Bogosian could do that too, but the thing is, when you have Ovechkin, Backstrom and Semin (not sure here) playing on the same PP unit, that gives Greene a much better oppurtunity than say Kovalchuk and Little with Bogosian. But i do agree that Atlanta is one physical player away from being a real threat. Thats why i feel they should definately take Kane, or if they want a dman, drop to 6 and pick up Cowen. Who knows, they could even move up to 2 and take Hedman, although it is highly unlikely.
one reason i think greene would be hampered in an atlanta pp system is that kovalchuk plays point so more than likely he would be the only defenseman on the ice for the thrashers and thus would not be able to take risks like he does in washington

still
kozlov-white-little
kovalchuk-greene
is a pretty kickass

kozlov plays the side boards like a master(and was 2nd in the league in power play points because of it last year) white works behind the net and little sets the screen. kovalchuk bombs from the point and greene does what greene does

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06-02-2009, 11:20 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Alex28 View Post
Green would still be good for around 60 points in Atlanta.

Green has two major aspects to his offense - he's excellent at carrying the puck in (often his break-ins are catalysts for Capitals' zone time) and he's excellent and cherry-picking while in the zone (his insane PP totals have to do with him creeping off into the slot with nobody noticing). So, basically, he benefits a lot from open ice. There's only one player in the league who creates as much open ice as Ovechkin does and he plays in Atlanta. He's also a more consistent puck carrier than Ovechkin.

If Atlanta has a superfast defenseman (like Campbell, which is why I'm guessing they pushed for his so badly) to play with Kovalchuk, the play of both would rise tremendously. Not sure about how fast either Hainsey or Enstrom are (from what I've seen, not very, but I don't watch Atlanta that often), but Bogosian seems to be the real deal in that regard.

Atlanta is one great physical stay at home guy from being a major threat. Which is why I think they should shop the #4 pick for some package around Volchenkov or Regehr .
enstrom is actually probably atlanta's fastest d-man, then bogosian, then salmela, then hainsey, and then you get to the guys that can't skate

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06-02-2009, 11:29 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
i'd say schenn has a bit of an edge on defense but bogosian could be putting up close to greene numbers pretty soon while being atlanta's top d-man in the defensive aspects as well

not to mention he took on donald brashear in his first ever nhl game and won
I don't know whether Bogosian or Schenn is better defensively right now. They're both impressive as hell though - especially for the age.

If Bogosian ever comes close to Greene's numbers, I'll be shocked.

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