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Old
06-03-2009, 05:35 PM
  #51
JDM
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Originally Posted by DaAnimal View Post
New to HFboards? Not really, been reading this since the beginning of 2008 where everyone was predicting that we were gonna get the Bulin Wall and etc etc. But posting on HFboards? Sure, signed up a few weeks ago because I think it's quite fun talking to fellow Kings fans. Something very rare in So Cal

I could care less if you correct me or flame me. As long as you understood what I meant, then I am happy
Heh, once again, that was directed to Shelle.

I don't care who is new or not, but I assume newer posters don't quite know everyone's personality yet. Hell, I'm still learning.

I didn't mean to come off as superior or something. Duration of posting on HFboards only means you know more about HFboards, it has no bearing on the level of your hockey knowledge or opinion credibility. In fact it really bugs me when I see people say things that insinuate # of posts is somehow proportional to intelligence.

btw, I did the same. Read for almost a year before I signed up.

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Old
06-03-2009, 05:58 PM
  #52
ukyo
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Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
Here is how I hope it goes down, DL seems to like Hedman... DUH! Kane and Cowen. http://feeds.latimes.com/~r/latimes/...,7825451.story

I threw this around on Toronto's board, and they thought it was favorable.

Our 5th for there 7th + Poni and a 3-4th pick. I think we could get a second in 2010 if he doesn't resign and a 3rd if he were to sign.

Now Poni is 6'4" and a left wing. Put up good numbers once he got away from Antropov. He is a good skater, remember he killed us this year. If Tor moves up and takes Schenn at 5 that leaves either Kane or Cowen whom DL seems to like at 7th. He gets one of who he wants plus a big fast left winger who can score. That would be awesome..... err assuming DL wants those players of course. So yes I want a trade but not for Vinny, If we cant sign JJ trade him and + for Bryan Little or other top 6 center This was based on MPS going 4th.




Frolov- Kopitar- Williams
Poni- #2 /Little- Brown
I don't buy the talk of a huge dropoff in talent outside of the top 5, so I'm all for swapping #5 for #7 to get Ponikarovsky. There is enough talk about guys like OEL, Cowen, and MPS being top-5 talents that I'd even be willing to go down to #9 or #10.

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06-03-2009, 06:01 PM
  #53
Dave in LA
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Originally Posted by antdvda View Post
Im going to be completely honest here...as a fan this is what im gonna want to see:

1) The 5th is a must

2) We need to have the best defensive prospect you have (other than DD, I can understand that). I would guess the better of JJ and Hickey.

3) A top 6 winger or your best winger prospect. So the best they can get out of Brown, Frolov, Moller.

4) And whatever else they can get out of top draft picks or top prospects.

5) This is the kicker...as fans we need to be convinced that that defenseman we are getting (JJ or Hickey or whoever) is going to be an elite top pairing defenseman in the future. We as fans will go right to the Recchi trade that we made at the draft. We will say we traded an over the hill 40 year old HoFer for Matt Lashoff (selected 22nd overall in 2005 who fell out of favor with the Bruins). We need to know that this defenseman that we get is 2 to 3 times the player that Lashoff is. If not it will look bad.

6) This is the part that is hard to swallow...it is hard to take, as fans, to accept the fact that we didnt get a PROVEN top 2 defenseman or 1st line foward for the heart and soul of hockey in Tampa Bay. Im sure you guys can at least understand this point.

Thats as honest as I can be...what do you guys think?
I don't know how many times I have explained this, but here it goes again:

29 yrs old
11 yr contract
7.7 cap hit
NTC
Limited amount of teams with cap space
TB in a position of weakness

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Old
06-03-2009, 06:06 PM
  #54
saintsnsoldiers
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Originally Posted by DapperDan View Post
Except I'd put my money on the Yotes picking Cowen at 6...not that it makes the trade bad or anything. But...why Cowen??
It comes down to JJ for me, I like him and think he will be good, but will he sign. If he is gone in a trade for a scorer then I feel we need to go with D in the draft, I feel Cowen will be just as good as Hedman or if not better. My opinion. His leg injury hurt him draft wise, if he was in last years draft he would of pushed Doughty, I think DL really likes his D. More value and all that lingo Dean speaks. We have depth at D prospect wise but if we start wheeling and dealing then we need more there. Cowen and Doughty down the road would be killer,

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Old
06-03-2009, 06:08 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ukyo View Post
I don't buy the talk of a huge dropoff in talent outside of the top 5, so I'm all for swapping #5 for #7 to get Ponikarovsky. There is enough talk about guys like OEL, Cowen, and MPS being top-5 talents that I'd even be willing to go down to #9 or #10.
I can see DL doing this, this is a deep draft, we can pick up good pieces to the puzzle by moving down and still getting a good player that will also fit the puzzle.

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06-03-2009, 06:09 PM
  #56
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Can Someone please explain to me why we would take a defenseman with our pick? We already have too many d men to fill our roster spots and it just makes no sense to me... however, everything will change if johnson or another one of our high end d prospects gets traded....

i will be pissed if we take a defenseman without already upgrading our offense,


Doughty
Johnson
Hickey
Teubert
Quincey
Voinov
Greene
Drewiske



Thats our d core for the next 10 years..how could we possibly squeeze anyone else in?

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Old
06-03-2009, 06:09 PM
  #57
saintsnsoldiers
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Originally Posted by Dave in LA View Post
I don't know how many times I have explained this, but here it goes again:

29 yrs old
11 yr contract
7.7 cap hit
NTC
Limited amount of teams with cap space
TB in a position of weakness

This is why I feel Vinny could be had with out the 5th pick.

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Old
06-03-2009, 06:19 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Jwm1986 View Post
Can Someone please explain to me why we would take a defenseman with our pick? We already have too many d men to fill our roster spots and it just makes no sense to me... however, everything will change if johnson or another one of our high end d prospects gets traded....

i will be pissed if we take a defenseman without already upgrading our offense,


Doughty
Johnson
Hickey
Teubert
Quincey
Voinov
Greene
Drewiske



Thats our d core for the next 10 years..how could we possibly squeeze anyone else in?
Because all those pieces wont be there as of July 1.I can see one of Hickey and Tuebert and JJ gone in a trade for a top line scorer wither it be a center or wing.

That leaves
Tuebert (by no means a sure shot for stable NHL work)
Voinov
Martinez

Doughty and Quincey and Drewiski have graduated. No offense but that isn't to exciting to me. DL likes his D in drafts, more value blah blah blah.... more DL speak.You throw Cowen in there then ya we are set for awhile and DL has done his job by filling the cupboards and using them to get us what we need to compete.

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Old
06-03-2009, 06:36 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
Because all those pieces wont be there as of July 1.I can see one of Hickey and Tuebert and JJ gone in a trade for a top line scorer wither it be a center or wing.

That leaves
Tuebert (by no means a sure shot for stable NHL work)
Voinov
Martinez

Doughty and Quincey and Drewiski have graduated. No offense but that isn't to exciting to me. DL likes his D in drafts, more value blah blah blah.... more DL speak.You throw Cowen in there then ya we are set for awhile and DL has done his job by filling the cupboards and using them to get us what we need to compete.
I still think a proven puck moving defenseman would help the offense just as much or more than a forward. Detroit is loaded with good skating defenseman that really feed their transition game.

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Old
06-03-2009, 07:00 PM
  #60
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uuuhmmmmm..........................

i opened the thread to bypass that Vinny or whoever question.

I was asking ........

basically.... you are for a trade or going by drafting and developing.
I think before we talk about who to get and how much... we have to figure out the biggest Kings needs.

Like i said...
i would go by UFA for the missing left Wing. If anyone is coming or not, makes the deccission at the draft day easier.
If Gaborik or Hossa decide to sign, we don't need another Winger and can draft Kane.

In both cases we don't have to give up something.
The means............ no draft, just go ahead and do some dirty moves
If no winger is coming we go after MPS

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Old
06-03-2009, 07:09 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Keep him. I don't want to give up the 5th pick overall. I am convinced that there are better deals to be made out there without giving up that pick.

If Tampa is dead set on moving Lecavalier and Lombardi makes a deal for him, he doesn't have to compete with the sentimentality of the fans. He just has to beat the offer of the one or two other clubs that are interested.

In my book you can have JJ, Moller, and our 2nd round pick. Take it or leave it. Oh and let's don't forget that albatross of a contract you will be getting rid of, that's a positive on your side of the trade as well.

What you're going to get a better deal from Montreal or Vancouver?
What is in bold is exactly what I think as well. If a deal between Tampa and LA were to be consummated, somebody is going to be disappointed. And given the possible back stories, it's much more likely it will be Tampa fans.

Here are the possible scenarios between Tampa and LA:
1. Lawton walks away because the return is too low and ownership has NOT demanded that Lecavalier be shopped.
2. Lombardi walks away because the price is too high.
3. Lecavalier is traded for less than what Tampa fans want.
4. Lecavalier is traded for as much as or more than what Tampa fans want.

I don't see #4 as being realistic. The key is that there is not enough pressure on Lombardi to get such a deal done (actually, NONE whatsoever, aside from a handful of HF and LGK members hoping he'll read their posts). All the things that antdvda and Patrick are hoping to get back for Lecavalier are just not going to be coming from the Kings because the No-Deal scenario is still a via option to Lombardi.

The only thing that might work in Tampa's favor is the possibility that Lombardi is tired of whatever Jack Johnson drama there really is, but that still doesn't mean that Lombardi can't deal with some team other than Tampa. On the other hand, there are really not that many dance partners for Lawton for Lecavalier.

This won't be a matter of how much more Lawton can get for Lecavalier. It will come down to how desperate he is to move him.

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06-03-2009, 07:26 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
uuuhmmmmm..........................

i opened the thread to bypass that Vinny or whoever question.

I was asking ........

basically.... you are for a trade or going by drafting and developing.
I think before we talk about who to get and how much... we have to figure out the biggest Kings needs.

Like i said...
i would go by UFA for the missing left Wing. If anyone is coming or not, makes the deccission at the draft day easier.
If Gaborik or Hossa decide to sign, we don't need another Winger and can draft Kane.

In both cases we don't have to give up something.
The means............ no draft, just go ahead and do some dirty moves
If no winger is coming we go after MPS
I think there is a definate hole at winger. I think overall we have a bigger hole at winger than at center, but that a big time center would actually help the team more. So the answer is, both?

I'd prefer UFA>draft>trade.

Unfortunately I don't think UFA is a real possibility for known reasons history has demonstrated time and again, and the draft is too slow to help the team make the playoffs in the next 2 years. So I'm left with trade.

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Old
06-03-2009, 07:28 PM
  #63
ukyo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
uuuhmmmmm..........................

i opened the thread to bypass that Vinny or whoever question.

I was asking ........

basically.... you are for a trade or going by drafting and developing.
I think before we talk about who to get and how much... we have to figure out the biggest Kings needs.

Like i said...
i would go by UFA for the missing left Wing. If anyone is coming or not, makes the deccission at the draft day easier.
If Gaborik or Hossa decide to sign, we don't need another Winger and can draft Kane.

In both cases we don't have to give up something.
The means............ no draft, just go ahead and do some dirty moves
If no winger is coming we go after MPS
Apologies, Kurrilino.

Back to your original topic, trading and drafting/developing are not mutually exclusive. Developing a prospect pool provides you currency to go out and buy things that other teams want. Everyone has the same salary cap to spend, but not everyone has blue chip prospects that can be dealt without setting back the team's future. The Kings roster doesn't have room for all of Johnson/Doughty/Hickey/Voynov/Quincey/Teubert/Martinez. The ones that aren't with the Kings will just be wasted if they aren't dealt to a team that needs them. We have a surplus, so I have no problem with selling a few of them off to get stuff that we can't get via free agency.

In terms of what the Kings should do this off-season, if there is an opportunity to acquire a great core player via trade, I would do it. It doesn't have to be Lecavalier. Kovalchuk, Ovechkin, Crosby, Carter, etc. The problem is that out of anyone that is a great core player, Lecavalier is probably the only one available.

Failing that, I would not be unhappy with signing a guy like Gaborik. However, this would end up being a bidding war. Also, given the past reluctance for high profile free agents to want to come to LA and the lack of recent playoff success, we'll likely have to overpay. And guys that are overpaid tend not to be worth their production (hence they are overpaid).

Then we start trading for second tier talent and get guys like Sturm, who could very well be good team fits, but will be summarily dismissed by our fanbase as "dumpster diving."

About the only thing I will be unhappy about is if Lombardi sits on his hands and says the Kings have to "look within."

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