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What Exactly is a REBUILD?

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Old
06-03-2009, 08:32 AM
  #1
saintsnsoldiers
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What Exactly is a REBUILD?

To me it seems the Kings have been stuck in the proverbial rebuild whirlpool for along time. We know have pieces in place to put us back in the competitive pool again. But how do we do it. Do we use patience, but how much, and how long. Do we drain the cupboard all at once, do we go for broke or for the home run and hope we don't whiff. We have been on track so far, now we have a lot of pieces in place to get something done. Are we 1 player away or 2. I feel we still have a goalie issue, I think we need a proven #1 for the next few years, and a good #2 Center, and a goal scoring fiend on the left side. We have been in rebuild for awhile. We fill the cupboards to be used, not to sit and spoil. Capt Ron said in another thread we haven't had a player who has won an award in 11 years... that pretty much sucks. I guess what I would like to hear is your philosophy's on the rebuild and were we go or what the next move is.

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06-03-2009, 09:46 AM
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Defgarden
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We're certainly in no position to go for broke. Good teams that trade 1st rounders for rentals are going for broke. They're putting potentially long term assets on the line for short term gains. We're not nearly there yet.

I say stay the course, trade for Vinny if the cost is "reasonable" and won't harm us more than help us, try to pick up some good forward FA's, and take a good long look at the youngin's in camp.

The Kings are in a position to potentially start trading some defensive depth, but I would try and start with the undesirables (like Priessing). You can't go nuts though because they're still so young. Hickey, Voinov, and Tuebert are still young and shouldn't be traded IMO unless the return is going to really benefit the team long term. As they get older, their fates will become clearer.

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06-03-2009, 12:19 PM
  #3
Sybil227
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What Exactly is a REBUILD?

Vinny Gambini: You know, when you rebuild a carburetor, the first thing you do is you take the carburetor off the manifold? Supposing you skip the first step, and while you're replacing one of the jets, you accidentally drop the jet, it goes down the carburetor, rolls along the manifold, and goes into the head. You're ********d. You just learned the hard way that you gotta remove the carburetor first, right? So that's all that happened to me today. I learned the hard way. Actually, it was a good learning experience for me.

Y'know - I saw the title of this thread, thought of this quote, then thought it was strangely appropriate...

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06-03-2009, 12:38 PM
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DeeMeck
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defgarden View Post
We're certainly in no position to go for broke. Good teams that trade 1st rounders for rentals are going for broke. They're putting potentially long term assets on the line for short term gains. We're not nearly there yet.

I say stay the course, trade for Vinny if the cost is "reasonable" and won't harm us more than help us, try to pick up some good forward FA's, and take a good long look at the youngin's in camp.

The Kings are in a position to potentially start trading some defensive depth, but I would try and start with the undesirables (like Priessing). You can't go nuts though because they're still so young. Hickey, Voinov, and Tuebert are still young and shouldn't be traded IMO unless the return is going to really benefit the team long term. As they get older, their fates will become clearer.
Norstrom to Dallas comes to mind immediately.

we drafted Moller with the 2nd, Cameron with the 3rd, and moved the 1st to trade up for Teubert.

We also picked up Simmonds for Sopel....

Very good moves, followed up by great draft picks IMO.

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06-03-2009, 01:35 PM
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Kingjordan
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REBUILB is the Los Angeles Kings

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06-03-2009, 01:58 PM
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HeadInjury
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A rebuild is when a decision is made to forego the possibility of getting better in the short term for the possibility of getting better in the long term. Typically, a team realizes it isn't going to get to the promised land and they should start over. You trade away your valuable players that aren't in your long term plans for picks and youngsters. You shy away from signings that will only improve your team enough to miss out on top draft picks. You try to build a youthful core so the team improves as they mature.

The Kings were never in a rebuild until DL came on board. It started when he traded Demitra at the draft, followed by Gleason, Belanger, Avery, Conroy, Norstrom and Sopel. Before then, most trades of our better players were for salary reasons (e.g., Blake, Schneider) and not driven by the desire to improve the team.

The key to the rebuild is remaining patient.

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06-03-2009, 03:28 PM
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RAZZIE King
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Rebuild was the name the Kings rejected back when they were first formed...

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06-03-2009, 03:58 PM
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DapperDan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sybil227 View Post
Vinny Gambini: You know, when you rebuild a carburetor, the first thing you do is you take the carburetor off the manifold? Supposing you skip the first step, and while you're replacing one of the jets, you accidentally drop the jet, it goes down the carburetor, rolls along the manifold, and goes into the head. You're ********d. You just learned the hard way that you gotta remove the carburetor first, right? So that's all that happened to me today. I learned the hard way. Actually, it was a good learning experience for me.

Y'know - I saw the title of this thread, thought of this quote, then thought it was strangely appropriate...
Ha! Not bad. Great movie reference too.

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06-03-2009, 04:14 PM
  #9
JDM
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I think the key is that the Kings don't have that ONE player. We all wanted it to be Kopitar, and I still reserve some hope that he can be, but it looks less likely. He will put up dominant points, but whether he can put the team on his back or not is questionable.

I think the REbuild, as it were, is officially OVER.

What else is there to REbuild? Frolov and Armstrong? That's about it.

Anymore REbuilding is really RE-REbuilding, and that is a form of stasis I want no part of.

I've said it before, its time for the building to begin.

That means instead of looking 3 years down the road, you are looking to the next year or two. You are concerned about the current performance and trying to bolster to squad on the ice with legit players. No more bridges or bull.

We still BUILD through the draft. People act like trading this year's 1st doesn't allow us to pick any other good players in the draft. Moller or Simmonds anyone?

You can still trade some good long term assets for good long term assets (Vinny).

Defgarden hit the nail on the head when he said 'going for broke' entails trading long term assets for UFA's to be. That is a move looking ONLY towards a current season.

We are not THAT far yet. But we are at the point when we have to start hedging our bets with the plethora of young potential long term assets and use them for players that can help the team now and in the near future, atleast until the youngsters we hold on to are ready to replace them or better yet, be mentored by them before they replace them.

Lombardi has clearly said time and again that he only stockpiles so many young prospects and picks so that he can hold on the to ones he covets most and use the rest to make a trade.

Trading the built up assets for proven talent is critical in the rebuild meaning anything. It's called the next phase.

If you like spinning your wheels, get a hamster.

THE REBUILD IS (SHOULD BE) OVER.

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06-03-2009, 05:13 PM
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Legionnaire
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defgarden View Post
We're certainly in no position to go for broke. Good teams that trade 1st rounders for rentals are going for broke. They're putting potentially long term assets on the line for short term gains. We're not nearly there yet.

I say stay the course, trade for Vinny if the cost is "reasonable" and won't harm us more than help us, try to pick up some good forward FA's, and take a good long look at the youngin's in camp.

The Kings are in a position to potentially start trading some defensive depth, but I would try and start with the undesirables (like Priessing). You can't go nuts though because they're still so young. Hickey, Voinov, and Tuebert are still young and shouldn't be traded IMO unless the return is going to really benefit the team long term. As they get older, their fates will become clearer.
I'm with this guy

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06-03-2009, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post

THE REBUILD IS (SHOULD BE) OVER.
I think they've to too play it over for it to be over.

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06-03-2009, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
I think they've to too play it over for it to be over.
care to rephrase?

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06-03-2009, 05:30 PM
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care to rephrase?
They have to. Stupid netbook.

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06-03-2009, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
They have to. Stupid netbook.
I'm still a little confused. They (the Kings) have to play it (the rebuild) over, for it be over.

I guess you are saying the rebuild is over when the team has a winning record, or makes the playoffs?

I disagree on that mindset, that the play on the ice determines the philosophy of the club. I think it has to be the other way around.

As soon as the rebuild is over in DL's mind, and he starts making moves and running the team differently, the rebuild is over, and that in effect helps to jumpstart the team on the ice and leads to the winning seasons and playoff berths.

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06-03-2009, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I'm still a little confused. They (the Kings) have to play it (the rebuild) over, for it be over.

I guess you are saying the rebuild is over when the team has a winning record, or makes the playoffs?

I disagree on that mindset, that the play on the ice determines the philosophy of the club. I think it has to be the other way around.

As soon as the rebuild is over in DL's mind, and he starts making moves and running the team differently, the rebuild is over, and that in effect helps to jumpstart the team on the ice and leads to the winning seasons and playoff berths.
We've taken the pro-active approach too long. Yes, it worked for Chicago, but this team needs to prove it can win before it's time to move on. They'll get there. No point in putting the ox before the cart.

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06-03-2009, 05:57 PM
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I like the way the Kings have rebuilt via youth movement! I wish the Canucks would do the same thing.

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06-03-2009, 06:09 PM
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Rebuild is a word Dean throws out there to fall back on...He also uses the word prospects and future. Rebuild is to the Kings as Playoffs is to Detroit.
Rebuild is more of an excuse then a plan. When all else falls, Dean pulls the Rebuild bear out of the hat in order to keep the fans in line. Then he wows us with the the word prospects and future...Its really amazing. I just want to see how long he can continue to mesmerize us with his trickery.

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06-03-2009, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KriticalKing View Post
Rebuild is a word Dean throws out there to fall back on...He also uses the word prospects and future. Rebuild is to the Kings as Playoffs is to Detroit.
Rebuild is more of an excuse then a plan. When all else falls, Dean pulls the Rebuild bear out of the hat in order to keep the fans in line. Then he wows us with the the word prospects and future...Its really amazing. I just want to see how long he can continue to mesmerize us with his trickery.
Obsessive is a word to describe you. I still haven't seen your master plan that's better than one of the best hockey minds in the NHL.

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06-03-2009, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KriticalKing View Post
Rebuild is a word Dean throws out there to fall back on...He also uses the word prospects and future. Rebuild is to the Kings as Playoffs is to Detroit.
Rebuild is more of an excuse then a plan. When all else falls, Dean pulls the Rebuild bear out of the hat in order to keep the fans in line. Then he wows us with the the word prospects and future...Its really amazing. I just want to see how long he can continue to mesmerize us with his trickery.
So what would you do then? Play GM here for a moment and let's hear what you have to suggest

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06-03-2009, 06:43 PM
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Obsessive is a word to describe you. I still haven't seen your master plan that's better than one of the best hockey minds in the NHL.
When did the Kings hire Ken Holland?

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06-03-2009, 06:53 PM
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When did the Kings hire Ken Holland?
Holland isn't the mastermind behind Detroit's success. I do believe DL is one of the better GM's.

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06-03-2009, 06:55 PM
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Defgarden makes an excellent point about being very delicate when it comes to trading defensive depth. It is the Kings' primary position of strength which is something no Kings team has been able to say for six years. All those guys aren't going to make the Kings even though I think they all will make the NHL. This makes them extremely valuable and puts Dean in a position to deal from a position of strength without sacrificing the future. This is the point of a rebuild. They have sacrificed the past three years to develop a position of strength. With that it appears a leap can be made.

On the whole I think the rebuild is, for all intents and purposes, over. A reserve list has been built and the players are now going to develop into legitimate talent.

As for Kritical ... please stop quoting him. We all know he is a victim of his own hyperbole and quoting him only exacerbates the problem.

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06-03-2009, 06:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire View Post
We've taken the pro-active approach too long. Yes, it worked for Chicago, but this team needs to prove it can win before it's time to move on. They'll get there. No point in putting the ox before the cart.
You don't want to be pro-active?

Why can't people see a middle ground between full draft rebuild and the DT era?

So your plan is to just wait and see? How long do you wait? What's plan B? Any insurance in there?

After how many losing seasons/missing the playoffs do you become pro-active?

I know you believe in the team, and to an extent I do believe highly in the abilities of the current squad. But they need help, and the missing piece isn't a 3rd liner.

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06-03-2009, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Holland isn't the mastermind behind Detroit's success. I do believe DL is one of the better GM's.
Oh man did you ever just open the floodgates!

I agree though, I think Dean is one of the better GM's. Top 8 in my mind.


Last edited by JDM: 06-03-2009 at 07:05 PM. Reason: avoiding the wrath of C. Ron!
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Old
06-03-2009, 06:58 PM
  #25
Captain Ron
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Originally Posted by SFKingshomer View Post
Holland isn't the mastermind behind Detroit's success. I do believe DL is one of the better GM's.
That is obvious by your constant praise of him and his moves. But ask yourself why would one of the most brilliant minds in hockey have to wait three years after being fired by San Jose to get another GM job?

I think Dean has a lot of good ideas (nix that...great ideas) about how to build a team. His downside is in the execution of these plans.

For a guy you consider ot be one of the better GM's in the league he has never ever been the GM of a Stanley Cup Champion. In fact none of his teams have ever gotten past the 2nd round. Until his plan succeeds Dean is no better than any other average GM in the NHL.

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