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Emery could sign for one-year @ 1.5m (post #553)

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06-04-2009, 10:47 AM
  #301
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
I'd drive for fun, but sure as **** I would have a driver to take me out drinking, and other times I feel lazy.


After taking the time to process this deal, I think I like it. My biggest fear now is that Emery has a great season on a one year deal, and then we're back in the same place.
That's the long-term problem with this move...gives us very little stability, and puts us back in the same position a year from now if he does play well and toes the line. Then you have to deal with a bigger question...people have a problem giving Biron a significant commitment, how do you feel about giving Ray Emery a significant commitment?

People in Philly, and NFL fans in general, are all too aware of TO's ability to keep his **** together for a short stretch before becoming a massive headache.

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06-04-2009, 10:49 AM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Really?

When money is no object, and neither are the consequences of tickets and insurance...
Yep, really. How many stories do you hear about high profile celebrities getting in trouble when they get behind the wheel? I wouldn't put my career at risk by driving when I shouldn't be.


Last edited by pelts35.com: 06-04-2009 at 10:57 AM.
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06-04-2009, 10:53 AM
  #303
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Which option would you all rather have.

Biron - 5 Mill
Backup -1 Mil

or

Emery-1.5 Mill
Backup-1 Mill
Defense - 3.5 Mill

You could also get rid of Jones and replace his 2.8 mill in option A, or waive Jones and spend up to 6.3 mill on a D man in option B ???

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06-04-2009, 10:53 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
What young millionaire athletes don't break the law?

An interview with Ovechkin...

Who in your team is known as crazy driver? About whom are the legends made?

- The legends are made about Semin and me! I normally try to drive carefully. Only once, because I was late to the team's training, I accelerated to 165 miles per hour. You can convert yourself how much it is in kilometers. And the flying ended, the police stopped me near White House.

[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Ovechkin-on-beating-speeding-tickets-Sean-Avery?urn=nhl,95225[Link[/url]
Do you really believe that's a viable "defense" of driving stupid.

Quote:
The guy in the Emery case admitted to cutting Emery off, and he lost his cool...so what? Now, if he had 30 reported cases of road rage...different story. 30 tickets, so what.
I don't care if he cut him off, gave him the finger as he drove by, all while degrading a picture of Emery's mother. Not having the self-control to NOT go into a road rage incident that results in forcefully stopping another car on the highway is displaying a complete lack of personal control.

30 tickets display the inability to learn from previous mistakes...and isn't the entire premise here that he's learned from previous mistakes, thus it's an okay signing? Didn't he lose his license AFTER coming back from Russia?

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That has nothing to do with how he stops pucks, and is no more concerning than a few of the teams players appearing out on the town, crashing parties under the influence. Not in my mind anyways.
Next time someone dies from crashing parties under the influence we can compare that and reckless driving.

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06-04-2009, 10:55 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Yep, really. How many stories do you hear about high profile celebrities getting in trouble when they get behind the wheel?
Yep, and how often are the celebrities that get caught up in driving ridiculousness the very same celebrities whose careers are careening into trees?

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06-04-2009, 11:03 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by UseYourAllusion View Post
My biggest fear now is that Emery has a great season on a one year deal, and then we're back in the same place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
That's the long-term problem with this move...gives us very little stability, and puts us back in the same position a year from now if he does play well and toes the line.
That's at least 3 people who've brought that up, and I can't believe what I'm reading.

-Get a great performance for a full season at the most important position in hockey
-Save a huge chunk of cap-space in the process

AND you want something else on top of that?? Just getting those two things would be nothing short of a miracle considering the position we're in right now.

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06-04-2009, 11:06 AM
  #307
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Similar numbers and a cheaper price. He carries a risk, but he is cheap enough we can go out and trade for a goalie to get us down the stretch if we need to and the cap is managed so we can actually make a real trade at the deadline.

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06-04-2009, 11:06 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by BerubeBox View Post
That's at least 3 people who've brought that up, and I can't believe what I'm reading.

-Get a great performance for a full season at the most important position in hockey
-Save a huge chunk of cap-space in the process

AND you want something else on top of that?? Just getting those two things would be nothing short of a miracle considering the position we're in right now.
We CAN sign Biron and make other moves, you know. I think we'd get pretty much the same level of goaltending and have that level of goaltending for a few years...all of that without the risks involved in signing Emery, just at the higher cost because it does not come with those risks.

I want this team to STOP managing the salary cap in the short-term and start managing it in the long-term. Signing Ray Emery is the former, not the latter.

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Originally Posted by AaronTrieu View Post
Similar numbers and a cheaper price. He carries a risk, but he is cheap enough we can go out and trade for a goalie to get us down the stretch if we need to and the cap is managed so we can actually make a real trade at the deadline.
1) Where are we going to get that goalie? There are a couple of problems there...one, we're almost certainly going to remain very tight to the cap...even with the signing of Emery; two, starting quality goalies rarely get traded in season...and the Huet/Price fiasco in Montreal a couple years back likely made every GM in the league scared to make a similar move going forward.

2) As noted, we're likely to be right up against the cap even with this move...as signing Emery will take the pressure off of ditching some of our other cap problems (Lupul, Jones, etc.) that Holmgren has proven loathe to do something about. We're basically at 50M right now for next year. Add ~2M for the goaltending position and you're at 52M. Put JVR on the roster over Knuble, and you're at 53M. Put two D on the roster, and you're at 55M.

We won't be that flexibile next year unless we see some moves with other players beyond goaltending.


Last edited by Jester: 06-04-2009 at 11:12 AM.
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06-04-2009, 11:07 AM
  #309
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Do you really believe that's a viable "defense" of driving stupid.
Absolutely not. I'm much smarter than that.

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I don't care if he cut him off, gave him the finger as he drove by, all while degrading a picture of Emery's mother. Not having the self-control to NOT go into a road rage incident that results in forcefully stopping another car on the highway is displaying a complete lack of personal control.
Fair enough, and I don't mean to come across that I'm making excuses for the guy...but one road rage incident where nobody was charged with assault...isn't THAT big of a deal to me.

Craig MacTavish killed a woman drinking and driving (1984) and subsequently spent a year in jail, would you protest his hiring as a legitimate hockey coach if he were hired?

Paul Holmgren was charged with drunk driving (1994), did you protest him when he was named GM of the Flyers?

C'mon. These guys are human just like you and I, they make mistakes. Emery wasn't charged, nor has he spent time in jail for his shenanigans.

Quote:
30 tickets display the inability to learn from previous mistakes...and isn't the entire premise here that he's learned from previous mistakes, thus it's an okay signing? Didn't he lose his license AFTER coming back from Russia?
He's been pulled over 30 times, I don't think he has 30 speeding tickets...that's impossible with the laws here.

So what? Are 'we' hiring him to drive a limousine? No, he's a goalie and he gets paid to stop pucks.

Yes, he lost his license for speeding...so what?

Quote:
Next time someone dies from crashing parties under the influence we can compare that and reckless driving.
Under the influence? When was Emery ever under the influence?

If you want to talk about reckless driving, look at Heatley and MacTavish. They have been killed somebody...Emery hasn't.

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06-04-2009, 11:09 AM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Which option would you all rather have.

Biron - 5 Mill
Backup -1 Mil

or

Emery-1.5 Mill
Backup-1 Mill
Defense - 3.5 Mill

You could also get rid of Jones and replace his 2.8 mill in option A, or waive Jones and spend up to 6.3 mill on a D man in option B ???
I would rather have option B. I dont see any real good options for goalies next year given our cap situation. I think that an upgraded defense is more important than an upgrade in goal. I see Emery as a lateral move as of now, but has the potential to be a great investment for the year. Maybe we could even get Bouwmeester even though people are tired of talking about him. I would also like to trade for a top goalie prospect.

Timonen-Coburn
Bouwmeester-Parent
Carle-Sbisa

Emery
Backup

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06-04-2009, 11:12 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Under the influence? When was Emery ever under the influence?

If you want to talk about reckless driving, look at Heatley and MacTavish. They have been killed somebody...Emery hasn't.
Under the influence or not, going over 100 mph is dangerous.

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06-04-2009, 11:14 AM
  #312
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Under the influence or not, going over 100 mph is dangerous.
Really, that depends on the car and the road. That said a Hummer is not the right car.

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06-04-2009, 11:23 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
What I wonder is how many of those 30 times that Emery has been stopped has been racially motivated? Let's be honest. In the day and age that we live in, a successful black man driving a $70,000 is suspicious in plenty of police officers minds. People may claim otherwise, but I can tell you from having grown up in Ottawa, it's not that ridiculous of a claim to make. As well, all what we know is that he's been pulled over 30 times. He didn't say he was speeding or anything like that. If he were pulled over 30 times for speeding, Emery would have lost his license because of the points system used in Canada.
The Ottawa police force is known for being both corrupt and racist.

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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I would imagine that rather quickly the Ottawa police department knew EXACTLY who they were pulling over. How many Hummers are driving around Ontario...let alone being driven around by a black guy?

How many times do you think he was pulled over and the Cops said, "Hey, it's Ray Emery!" and let him off with a warning?

And he recently did have his license suspended.
You'd be amazed how many Hummers there are in Ontario. You see them all the time.

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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Under the influence or not, going over 100 mph is dangerous.
Agreed.

Who was travelling over 100mph though?

When Emery lost his license, he was caught going 50km/h over the speed limit. On the highway he was on, that's really nothing out of the norm.

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06-04-2009, 11:26 AM
  #314
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Fair enough, and I don't mean to come across that I'm making excuses for the guy...but one road rage incident where nobody was charged with assault...isn't THAT big of a deal to me.
You don't think it's a big deal that a guy playing a high-pressure position is incapable of keeping his cool to the point that he forcefully stops cars on highways and beats the crap out of trainers?

There are certainly defenses to both incidents, but both also display Emery's lack of self-control...and he plays a position that is all about self-control.

Quote:
Craig MacTavish killed a woman drinking and driving (1984) and subsequently spent a year in jail, would you protest his hiring as a legitimate hockey coach if he were hired?

Paul Holmgren was charged with drunk driving (1994), did you protest him when he was named GM of the Flyers?

C'mon. These guys are human just like you and I, they make mistakes. Emery wasn't charged, nor has he spent time in jail for his shenanigans.
Not saying Emery should be thrown in prison, and it isn't the specifics of the incidents that concern me...it's the consistency of the incidents happening again and again.

So, pointing to isolated incidents in other individuals pasts means absolutely nothing to any debate concerning Emery's past. The issue isn't that he's had a transgression here or there, it's that he has a record of trangressions that happen with such frequency. A lot of people have DUIs and speeding tickets, most of them do not go out and repeat the offense again and again and deserve any respect for their decision making abilities.

Quote:
He's been pulled over 30 times, I don't think he has 30 speeding tickets...that's impossible with the laws here.

So what? Are 'we' hiring him to drive a limousine? No, he's a goalie and he gets paid to stop pucks.

Yes, he lost his license for speeding...so what?
The central premise to the argument that it's OK to sign Emery is that he has learned from his past transgressions and therefore is "safe" to sign to be our starting goaltender. Would you say his serial traffic violations/issues are indicative of him "learning from his past mistakes?" I think they specifically indicate the opposite, he hasn't "learned form his past mistakes."

That's a problem.

Quote:
Under the influence? When was Emery ever under the influence?
I never said he was, you conflated going out to parties with Emery's antics, they are NOT one and the same.

Quote:
If you want to talk about reckless driving, look at Heatley and MacTavish. They have been killed somebody...Emery hasn't.
Did they learn from that? Did they do that again?

It just takes one incident to go bad for it to go really bad. People drive recklessly all the time without anything bad happening...and then one day something bad does happen. Hopefully both Heatley and MacTavish learned from their experience.

Hopefully Emery has as well, but please point me to some report that indicates that he has...I have yet to see one. And it is also very true he cannot prove he has learned until he is given a chance to, but that chance does not have to be with us.

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06-04-2009, 11:30 AM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Under the influence or not, going over 100 mph is dangerous.
Its definitely dangerous but we've all done it at one point or another.

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06-04-2009, 11:35 AM
  #316
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I did 120 before at 2am . . . does that mean I'm a terrible person?

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06-04-2009, 11:39 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
We CAN sign Biron and make other moves, you know. I think we'd get pretty much the same level of goaltending and have that level of goaltending for a few years...all of that without the risks involved in signing Emery, just at the higher cost because it does not come with those risks.

I want this team to STOP managing the salary cap in the short-term and start managing it in the long-term. Signing Ray Emery is the former, not the latter.



1) Where are we going to get that goalie? There are a couple of problems there...one, we're almost certainly going to remain very tight to the cap...even with the signing of Emery; two, starting quality goalies rarely get traded in season...and the Huet/Price fiasco in Montreal a couple years back likely made every GM in the league scared to make a similar move going forward.

2) As noted, we're likely to be right up against the cap even with this move...as signing Emery will take the pressure off of ditching some of our other cap problems (Lupul, Jones, etc.) that Holmgren has proven loathe to do something about. We're basically at 50M right now for next year. Add ~2M for the goaltending position and you're at 52M. Put JVR on the roster over Knuble, and you're at 53M. Put two D on the roster, and you're at 55M.

We won't be that flexibile next year unless we see some moves with other players beyond goaltending.
Emery is young. If he worked out, we could probably re-sign him for 2-3 years. That is much more long term. However, his attitude will determine everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Under the influence or not, going over 100 mph is dangerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Its definitely dangerous but we've all done it at one point or another.
Been there, dont that.

In a '94 Jeep Wrangler no less.

If I had a real car or an exotic one like a Lambo, you bet your bottom dollar I'd speed.

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06-04-2009, 11:42 AM
  #318
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Emery is young. If he worked out, we could probably re-sign him for 2-3 years. That is much more long term. However, his attitude will determine everything.
You're missing the point...it isn't that we could re-sign Emery, it's that we would be in the same position as far as the cap-hit we'd be talking about at that point...and with a far more volatile personality at that.

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06-04-2009, 11:43 AM
  #319
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Well, this thread has really taken a change in direction... We go from how Emery plays to how Emery drives... Next we are gonna talk about his girlfriends. I like how we are bringing his personal life into this, like he should be perfect or something. Yea, that ant gonna happen. If he can stop pucks while keeping a cool head, I'll like him.

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06-04-2009, 11:44 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You're missing the point...it isn't that we could re-sign Emery, it's that we would be in the same position as far as the cap-hit we'd be talking about at that point...and with a far more volatile personality at that.
This also gives Homer time to move more players if he has to. Not saying this is the best option, but, if he cant get anything done now, an extra year can give him a better view of everything.

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06-04-2009, 11:44 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
What I wonder is how many of those 30 times that Emery has been stopped has been racially motivated? Let's be honest. In the day and age that we live in, a successful black man driving a $70,000 is suspicious in plenty of police officers minds. People may claim otherwise, but I can tell you from having grown up in Ottawa, it's not that ridiculous of a claim to make. As well, all what we know is that he's been pulled over 30 times. He didn't say he was speeding or anything like that. If he were pulled over 30 times for speeding, Emery would have lost his license because of the points system used in Canada.
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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
this may be the dumbest post of all time... Im speechless
I would say the same about your post.

I fail to see where BobbyClarkefan got it wrong? There are all kinds of racism in the world. And it certainly goes both ways. However, anyone in a Lambo going over the limit WILL get pulled over. Just because the Police know he can afford the ticket and police will often to try to put manners on someone in a Lambo.

Also, if he was pulled over 30 times for speeding, he would eventually get locked up. So BobbyClarkeFan raises a valid point. Maybe Emery exagerrated his claim a bit?

I again fail to see why your so negative.

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06-04-2009, 11:45 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Well, this thread has really taken a change in direction... We go from how Emery plays to how Emery drives... Next we are gonna talk about his girlfriends. I like how we are bringing his personal life into this, like he should be perfect or something. Yea, that ant gonna happen. If he can stop pucks while keeping a cool head, I'll like him.
word up.

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06-04-2009, 11:45 AM
  #323
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You don't think it's a big deal that a guy playing a high-pressure position is incapable of keeping his cool to the point that he forcefully stops cars on highways and beats the crap out of trainers?
You make it sound like he has a whole rap sheet of road rage and violence towards his trainers. There is one recorded incident of each, and there are articles on each.

Quote:
There are certainly defenses to both incidents, but both also display Emery's lack of self-control...and he plays a position that is all about self-control.
Off the ice, yes...he's a bit of a wild child. You can't support your argument about his goaltending though, he posts solid numbers. I do understand what you're saying...but he's proved that he's more than capable of stopping pucks.

Quote:
Not saying Emery should be thrown in prison, and it isn't the specifics of the incidents that concern me...it's the consistency of the incidents happening again and again.
Again, he doesn't have 30 speeding tickets. The laws in Ontario wouldn't allow anybody to have that many speeding tickets, we run on a point system. It's more than just paying your fines...you lose your points...you lose your license.

Quote:
So, pointing to isolated incidents in other individuals pasts means absolutely nothing to any debate concerning Emery's past. The issue isn't that he's had a transgression here or there, it's that he has a record of trangressions that happen with such frequency. A lot of people have DUIs and speeding tickets, most of them do not go out and repeat the offense again and again and deserve any respect for their decision making abilities.
He's had one incident of road rage, and one of losing his cool on his trainer. Fine me an article(s) where he's done either of these repeatedly.


Quote:
The central premise to the argument that it's OK to sign Emery is that he has learned from his past transgressions and therefore is "safe" to sign to be our starting goaltender. Would you say his serial traffic violations/issues are indicative of him "learning from his past mistakes?" I think they specifically indicate the opposite, he hasn't "learned form his past mistakes."

That's a problem.
What's more concerning to me is that he doesn't show up late for practise, miss planes for road trips and doesn't try and start fights with his own teammates. If he get's pulled over for blasting hip hop at 3am and is cited for noise polution...I couldn't give a flying ****. Just show up and stop pucks, that's all I want.

Quote:
I never said he was, you conflated going out to parties with Emery's antics, they are NOT one and the same.
Not the same per say, but one could argue that they are similar.

Quote:
Did they learn from that? Did they do that again?

It just takes one incident to go bad for it to go really bad. People drive recklessly all the time without anything bad happening...and then one day something bad does happen. Hopefully both Heatley and MacTavish learned from their experience.
Not yet, no. Nor has Emery...and I hope they all don't. A human life is certainly way too valuable to be lost to that kind of nonsense.

Quote:
Hopefully Emery has as well, but please point me to some report that indicates that he has...I have yet to see one. And it is also very true he cannot prove he has learned until he is given a chance to, but that chance does not have to be with us.
Absolutely. It doesn't have to be with us, but that's a decision that is out both of our (and everybody elses control here). I suppose, if these reports are real...we'll find out soon enough. I'm not suggesting Emery has smartened up as I don't know. If he does indeed sign, I hope he's ready to prove a lot of people wrong.

As posted earlier in the thread...

Option A
Biron - 5 Mil over 3/4 years?
Backup -1 Mil

or...

Option B
Emery-1.2 Mil over 1 year
Backup-1 Mil
Defense - 3.5 Mil


I'll take option B given the current salary cap situation. It allows us to keep Lupul for the time being and not get fleeced in trying to unload him.

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06-04-2009, 11:46 AM
  #324
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this may be the dumbest post of all time... Im speechless
You really dont think there is racism in today's world? I hear about it all the time, even stuff that takes place in jersey.

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06-04-2009, 11:46 AM
  #325
Jester
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Also, if he was pulled over 30 times for speeding, he would eventually get locked up. So BobbyClarkeFan raises a valid point. Maybe Emery exagerrated his claim a bit?
If you're famous, you get away with all kinds of stupid crap that normal people don't.

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