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Emery could sign for one-year @ 1.5m (post #553)

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Old
06-08-2009, 07:55 PM
  #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
Oh please. This is the Philadelphia ****ing Flyers, not the cast of 90210. you do not know that Emery will cause a volatile dressing room, nor do you know whether injecting a little piss and vinegar into this team will add or subtract from our chemistry or detract from the growth of our kids.
You're right, I don't know that he will. I do know that he has. I say it a lot...I do not want reputation players. That's not exclusive to dumb penalties and suspensions. As for piss and vinegar...I hear that every time we bring in someone new. We had the discussion about Carcillo and piss and vinegar. You want more of it? I thought that's why we had Carcillo. Or Alberts. Or Asham. Or Eminger. Or Hartnell.

Distractions are NOT a good thing. A GM of a team, especially a young team, should want, other than growth and development, nothing more than for this 20 guys to come to the rink, go to practice/play the game, and leave the rink.

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You sound more like a concerned parent than a coach or GM.
I sound like a concerned fan who has a considerable amount of earnings invested in the team, and have seen the same song over and over and over and over....at some point we'll be more worried about how many Cups we have, and not how teeth are left on the ice.

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06-08-2009, 08:44 PM
  #727
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
You're right, I don't know that he will. I do know that he has. I say it a lot...I do not want reputation players. That's not exclusive to dumb penalties and suspensions. As for piss and vinegar...I hear that every time we bring in someone new. We had the discussion about Carcillo and piss and vinegar. You want more of it? I thought that's why we had Carcillo. Or Alberts. Or Asham. Or Eminger. Or Hartnell.

Distractions are NOT a good thing. A GM of a team, especially a young team, should want, other than growth and development, nothing more than for this 20 guys to come to the rink, go to practice/play the game, and leave the rink.



I sound like a concerned fan who has a considerable amount of earnings invested in the team, and have seen the same song over and over and over and over....at some point we'll be more worried about how many Cups we have, and not how teeth are left on the ice.


It's perfectly fine that you don't like reputation players and you have every right to be worried. We can't predict that Emery won't melt down here either. I'm hoping Holmgren has a "damage control plan" in place for draft day, just in case he does. I am pretty firm on not wanting to pay Biron a big money-long term deal. Also...by piss and vinegar, I meant edgy and competitive. I don't think you can ever have too much of that on a hockey team, it has nothing to do with teeth left on the ice in this case. In this case it's really dollars and cents.

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06-08-2009, 08:45 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
None of which means you are incapable of providing objective analysis that is based in a reality where there is potential good and potential bad. That you choose not to is merely ignoring an entire spectrum of possibilities because you choose not to give any attention to it.
And who in the grand scheme of things gives a **** about what Opus (Ryan from Canada) thinks about the direction that the Flyers are taking on their future goaltending personnel?

I give lot's of attention to this team. Doesn't mean I'm willing to get overly worked up about something. Like I said, I'm not in charge...and unless there is something really drastic going on (this isn't one btw), I will learn to accept the deals and moves this team makes. Doesn't mean I like each and everyone, because I don't. However, none of it is enough for me to get worked up over. Like some people don't appear to do, I look at the positives and understand each deal for what it is. I guess you could say that I don't get too attached to a professional athlete that doesn't know, and really...I don't know them, neither do any of you. They come and go, rinse and repeat. I chear for them while their here, and don't get too sad when they go. Sure it sucks, but it's the nature of the beast. I just welcome the new guy and do my best to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I'm an optimist, not a pessimist.

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Basically, what you're saying revolves down to "everything's groovy" because you don't feel you have a particular stake in the decision. That's an odd position for a "fan" to take, given that the assumption with being a "fan" is that you gain enjoyment from the team's success and disappointment in its failure. Being a fan isn't supposed to be about being neutral.
Of course I gain enjoyment from the team's success, but I don't overly depressed when they are unsuccessful either. While I wish all my favourite team's won their respective championships each year, that's simply not possible. Professional sports is entertainment. As metioned above, I don't lose sleep over millionaire athletes playing a game. They can't relate to me, I sure as hell can't relate to them.

I love talking about the Flyers amongst the group we have here on our board...but it pretty much starts and ends there.

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30 to Mid-30s have been relative prime years for modern goaltenders. Thomas, 35; Vokoun, 32; Backstrom, 31; Luongo, 30; Khabibulin, 36...number of other current and recent memory examples. While you'd certainly be happy with a younger goaltender, lets not make it out like Biron is on the tail end of his career. Goalies have proven capable of performing at a high level into their late-30s with pretty good consistency.
Never said he was old, but Emery is what...4-1/2 years younger with a higher ceiling IMO.

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Please point to one post that is painting Biron as anything other than an average goaltender? Haven't seen one person act like we're talking about a HoFer...if we were, then people would be justifying $$ north of 6M, not 4-5M.
You're taking far too literally.

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You do realize our very own GM said he probably would have signed Vaananen the year before except he gave up on the NHL market too quickly for the Flyers to sign him, right?

His skipping around prior to that was due to a slew of factors, not the least of which were injuries that derailed his career considerably.
'Probably', but it didn't happen and Vaananen has jumped from piller to post. Who cares, it's old news...on to the new stuff.

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06-08-2009, 09:38 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Flyersguru View Post
BTW, I forgot that Lupul's NTC starts July 1st, I am already thinking new season already because of we're all going off his new contract salary wise.
I don't think it kicks in to 2010, I could be wrong but I thought this would be an RFA year for Lupul and I don't think you can have an NTC during your RFA period

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06-09-2009, 09:11 AM
  #730
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Another day, another article. From philly.com...


Flyers Still Talking With Ray Emery

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Though all signs point to the Flyers signing controversial goalie Ray Emery, general manager Paul Holmgren yesterday said both sides are still negotiating.

Because Emery played in Russia last season, the team that signs him can announce they have an agreement before July 1, when the free-agent signing period starts.

Holmgren isn't prepared to make that announcement.

"We're still talking," he said. "I can't say we've decided 100 percent yet."

Holmgren said he has talked with potential free agent Marty Biron and his agent "at length," and he was not ready to close the door on signing him.

But the door seems to be almost shut, and if you read between the lines, Emery looks to be the Flyers' guy.

For one, he is expected to sign a one-year deal for about $1.5 million, significantly less than Biron, who is seeking a four- or five-year contract that figures to land him about $4 million per season.

Biron, 31, who wants to remain with the Flyers, said he had a "good conversation" with Holmgren last week but conceded that fitting his salary within the cap restraints was a "big hurdle."
Click link for complete story

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06-09-2009, 09:12 AM
  #731
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If Biron only signs for 4 mill per year...

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06-09-2009, 09:14 AM
  #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
If Biron only signs for 4 mill per year...
5 years is alot of years of Marty Biron...

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Old
06-09-2009, 09:17 AM
  #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
If Biron only signs for 4 mill per year...
If my Aunt had balls, she'd be my Uncle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
5 years is alot of years of Marty Biron...
I think so too.

And if he's such a team oriented guy, plays with his best friend, loves Philadelphia...he's ease up with his contract demands. Fact of the matter is Marty Biron is just like the rest them, looking out for the name on the back of the jersey, not the logo on the front. He knows the cap situation of the team, and if he's demanding maximum dollars...see ya.

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06-09-2009, 09:19 AM
  #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
5 years is alot of years of Marty Biron...
Tim Thomas is about to win the Vezina and he's 35, I think Biron will be 32, goalies can remain at elite level into their mid-late thirties.

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06-09-2009, 09:21 AM
  #735
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Tim Thomas is about to win the Vezina and he's 35, I think Biron will be 32, goalies can remain at elite level into their mid-late thirties.
And Biron couldn't fill Thomas' jock strap.

Thomas > Biron, and it's not even close.

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Old
06-09-2009, 09:25 AM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post

I think so too.

And if he's such a team oriented guy, plays with his best friend, loves Philadelphia...he's ease up with his contract demands. Fact of the matter is Marty Biron is just like the rest them, looking out for the name on the back of the jersey, not the logo on the front. He knows the cap situation of the team, and if he's demanding maximum dollars...see ya.
I didnt like the whole "big hurdle" quote from him...



Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Tim Thomas is about to win the Vezina and he's 35, I think Biron will be 32, goalies can remain at elite level into their mid-late thirties.
Thomas isnt Biron though. Things dont have to play out the same. I...personally... wouldn't just wait, hopeing, Marty decides to play like an elite number one goalie. If we sign him for 5 years and he plays average, or even gets worse, we are in some trouble...

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06-09-2009, 09:49 AM
  #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
I didnt like the whole "big hurdle" quote from him...


Thomas isnt Biron though. Things dont have to play out the same. I...personally... wouldn't just wait, hopeing, Marty decides to play like an elite number one goalie. If we sign him for 5 years and he plays average, or even gets worse, we are in some trouble...
Totally agree, Its not like we the fans do not want Marty back, some of us just understand saving 2.5 million is worth the chance on Emery over Biron or any other goalie that will cost 4 million or more.

Ray Emery's NHL record is 71 wins and 40 loses with 14 ties. Thats pretty damn good regardless of whos playing infront of him. He does not have a losing record in any league. Compared to Biron, were getting the same basic statistical goalie for 2.5 to 3 million less.

Total Stats
. GP W L T MIN GA SO GAA S%
NHL totals 134 71 40 14 7,419 335 8 2.71 .907
AHL totals 156 75 59 18 9,146 384 10 2.52 .919
OHL totals 127 60 49 11 7,131 368 6 3.10 .909

Birons NHL stats

NHL totals 433 199 163 25 20 24424 1053 25 2.59 .912


Last edited by Defmincex13: 06-09-2009 at 10:16 AM.
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Old
06-09-2009, 10:57 AM
  #738
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Why are we bringing out AHL and OHL numbers? If AHL numbers meant anything, I'll take Niittymaki over both of them (2.19 GAA, .918 SV% and those numbers are skewed because Niitty's 1st AHL season wasn't so great as the other two).

Also, when Emery went to the finals (we've discussed his before), that Senators team had a complete change in philosophy, they went from being the run and gun team we are, to playing tight, close defensive hockey that wins in the playoffs more often. We don't have that Volchenkov or Phillips (let alone both) to be the role-playing defensive defenseman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Thomas isnt Biron though. Things dont have to play out the same. I...personally... wouldn't just wait, hopeing, Marty decides to play like an elite number one goalie. If we sign him for 5 years and he plays average, or even gets worse, we are in some trouble...
No one's been waiting for Marty to become an elite #1 goalie. If the playoffs have proven anything the last 10 years it's that you DON'T need an elite #1 goalie.

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Old
06-09-2009, 11:11 AM
  #739
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post



No one's been waiting for Marty to become an elite #1 goalie. If the playoffs have proven anything the last 10 years it's that you DON'T need an elite #1 goalie.
How long have we been riding with average goaltenders? When was the last time we won with one? I know everyone says we dont need a super star goalie, but its not like having an average one helps our chances.

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06-09-2009, 11:34 AM
  #740
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Also, when Emery went to the finals (we've discussed his before), that Senators team had a complete change in philosophy, they went from being the run and gun team we are, to playing tight, close defensive hockey that wins in the playoffs more often. We don't have that Volchenkov or Phillips (let alone both) to be the role-playing defensive defenseman.
Huh?

Under Martin the Sens had always been an excellent defensive club. 10th in defense that year, 2nd the year before, 8th the year before that, 5th the year before that, 14th the year before that, 9th the year before that...

All with questionable goaltending. You can make a real argument that the Sens were one of the best defensive teams of the decade prior to their meltdown the last couple years. All while scoring with some regularity. That was a team marked by a strong defensive system that they used to create offense the other direction.

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06-09-2009, 11:36 AM
  #741
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
How long have we been riding with average goaltenders? When was the last time we won with one? I know everyone says we dont need a super star goalie, but its not like having an average one helps our chances.
Team that win with an average goaltender are teams with Good coaches that run a good system with also good team depth.

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06-09-2009, 01:09 PM
  #742
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Look around the league and tell me which 'good' goalies have a start job at a discount price.
Chris Osgood

hes locked up till 10/11.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.p...ET&season=0809

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06-09-2009, 02:21 PM
  #743
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Originally Posted by FireStevensDotCom View Post
Chris Osgood

hes locked up till 10/11.

http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.p...ET&season=0809
News Flash...Osgood ain't that good. Put him behind our defense -- or almost any other team in the league -- and some kind of ugly would follow. Dude had an .887 SVPCT this year...only reason the Red Wings could manage that with him was becaus they don't give up that many shots.

As is normally the case, what works for Detroit (with their current team) may not necessarily work for anyone else.

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06-09-2009, 03:04 PM
  #744
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Eklund is reporting an 11 am press conference tomorrow to announce the signing, FWIW.

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06-09-2009, 03:05 PM
  #745
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Eklund is reporting an 11 am press conference tomorrow to announce the signing, FWIW.
Hope the Wings win tonight so we can find out earlier.

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06-09-2009, 03:22 PM
  #746
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Flyers on the Fly twitter is broadcasting that Homer will be making a "Major Announcement" tomorrow at 11.

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06-09-2009, 03:24 PM
  #747
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http://flyers.nhl.com/team/app?artic...e&service=page

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Philadelphia Flyers general manager Paul Holmgren will make a major announcement and be available to the media at 11:00 a.m. on Wednesday morning at the Virtua Center Flyers Skate Zone.

Check back to philadelphiaflyers.com for complete coverage.

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06-09-2009, 03:28 PM
  #748
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
News Flash...Osgood ain't that good. Put him behind our defense -- or almost any other team in the league -- and some kind of ugly would follow. Dude had an .887 SVPCT this year...only reason the Red Wings could manage that with him was becaus they don't give up that many shots.

As is normally the case, what works for Detroit (with their current team) may not necessarily work for anyone else.
generally speaking he's a very average goalie but he's consistently shown that he can step up and be a great goalie in the playoffs

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Old
06-09-2009, 03:40 PM
  #749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
News Flash...Osgood ain't that good. Put him behind our defense -- or almost any other team in the league -- and some kind of ugly would follow. Dude had an .887 SVPCT this year...only reason the Red Wings could manage that with him was becaus they don't give up that many shots.

As is normally the case, what works for Detroit (with their current team) may not necessarily work for anyone else.
Bingo. They have the team in front of him where they can do that.

Osgood also has a contract until he's 40, so I'm pretty sure they're going to bring in someone or develop someone to take his spot, something we're not in position to accomplish at the moment.

When you're the Red Wings you can do that.

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06-09-2009, 03:42 PM
  #750
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Eklund is reporting an 11 am press conference tomorrow to announce the signing, FWIW.
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Originally Posted by riskyxxbusiness View Post
Flyers on the Fly twitter is broadcasting that Homer will be making a "Major Announcement" tomorrow at 11.
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Originally Posted by Flyersguru View Post
Interesting.

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