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06-04-2009, 07:23 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by eerodynamic View Post
You make it sounds like that is a minor thing. The canes might have won a game against Pittsburgh with better outlet passing.......and unlike Anton, Rodney and Carson both got their jerseys dirty in the corners. lets be fair...all 3 of these guys are likely 5/6 defensemen
Babchuk did not play the first three games of the series and we still got owned despite Kaberle (who is an excellent passer) being in the lineup.

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Based on what exactly? He is a poor passer. He hasnt shown any abillity to clear the front of the net. And he wont hit anything. I like the guy i really do. But i like him for what he is...a#6 defenseman/powerplay specialist
He is a great shotblocker, good positionally and has a lethal shot. He has his flaws and I'm in no way making him out to be some sort of top-pairing defenseman--personally I see him as more of a #4 guy, or a #5 guy if he stops developing.

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06-04-2009, 07:33 PM
  #27
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Additionally, I think people need to stop churning the organizational line that Bryan Rodney is some kind of late blooming Top 4 in the making. I didn't walk away too impressed by what the guy had to offer as compared to Babchuk. He handles the puck well and that's about it. That will score you points in the AHL, but it doesn't mean NHL success is soon to follow. I think JR was premature in calling him in the mix for a solid roster spot this season when he couldn't even supplant Frank Kaberle as a playing option. And yes, the salary played a part there but if we thought that Rodney could have helped this hockey team more than Kaberle he would have been elevated. He may as well be Noah Babin 2.0 as far as i'm concerned. I bought the hype last time, but not this time.

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06-04-2009, 07:45 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Additionally, I think people need to stop churning the organizational line that Bryan Rodney is some kind of late blooming Top 4 in the making. I didn't walk away too impressed by what the guy had to offer as compared to Babchuk. He handles the puck well and that's about it. That will score you points in the AHL, but it doesn't mean NHL success is soon to follow. I think JR was premature in calling him in the mix for a solid roster spot this season when he couldn't even supplant Frank Kaberle as a playing option. And yes, the salary played a part there but if we thought that Rodney could have helped this hockey team more than Kaberle he would have been elevated. He may as well be Noah Babin 2.0 as far as i'm concerned. I bought the hype last time, but not this time.
This. Does anybody seriously believe that we would have made the playoffs this past season with Rodney playing 18 minutes a game like Babchuk did?

We're talking about someone who bounced around on three different ECHL teams before finding a spot in Albany. He put up excellent point totals this season, but he's a fourth-year pro and should be doing as such.

Additionally, do we need a powerplay specialist defenseman here with Pitkanen, Corvo, Babchuk and Cullen all able to play the point?

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06-04-2009, 07:54 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
Additionally, I think people need to stop churning the organizational line that Bryan Rodney is some kind of late blooming Top 4 in the making. I didn't walk away too impressed by what the guy had to offer as compared to Babchuk. He handles the puck well and that's about it. That will score you points in the AHL, but it doesn't mean NHL success is soon to follow. I think JR was premature in calling him in the mix for a solid roster spot this season when he couldn't even supplant Frank Kaberle as a playing option. And yes, the salary played a part there but if we thought that Rodney could have helped this hockey team more than Kaberle he would have been elevated. He may as well be Noah Babin 2.0 as far as i'm concerned. I bought the hype last time, but not this time.

I definitely agree it was quite premature for JR to basically come out and say Rodney has a spot on the team next season. I was a bit blown away when I read that myself. With that said, I don't think there are too many people saying Rodney is a top 4 defenceman in the making.


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“For a guy to come up to fill in for us, [Bryan Rodney] did extremely well. Now, he’s put himself in a position that, going into next year’s training camp, he’ll have to play himself off the team.” - Jim Rutherford

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06-04-2009, 08:37 PM
  #30
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Haven't posted in a while ... hope you don't mind.

Anyhow, with all the discussion of what Anton Babchuk is or isn't, we're missing out on one fact. He's an RFA without arbitration rights who will almost certainly be qualified (at the absolute minimum, not doubt, but he will be qualified) by his team. Therefore, Anton will either play for Carolina at $1.1 million next year, or he'll play in Russia. It's essentially up to him if he's back or not, but I'd be shocked if he got any other offer from JR.

As for my two cents on the player, I like him. Always have. I even defended him when he refused to report to Albany, on the grounds he didn't deserve how the organization was handling that situation. But at this point, I think we have to admit that the relationship between player and organization is damaged, perhaps beyond repair. I don't think anybody within the organization likes him or even talks to him. He avoids the media and fans. He doesn't seem to especially enjoy being here, etc.

I'd like to have the hockey player back, but I don't care if the guy leaves.

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06-04-2009, 09:55 PM
  #31
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I will amend my earlier post and add that I don't think Babchuk shouldn't be re-signed, it's just that I don't think he is a "MUST SIGN" as stated in the original post. If he'll take the minimum raise his contract allows, I would welcome him back to the roster. If for some reason he isn't back next year, I don't think it would be a significant blow to the roster. We already have another one-dimensional powerplay quarterback in the system by the name of Kyle Lawson, who could potentially carve out a niche for himself on the roster in the future.

For Babchuk, I also wouldn't completely discount a defection back to the KHL. The fact that he was the only player that refused to speak with the media after his exit interview with Rutherford kind of speaks volumes. I still think there is alot of bitterness on the side of the organization for what he did last year. His play in the postseason really didn't do alot to temper those feelings.

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06-04-2009, 11:18 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by JustJoe2k5 View Post
I will amend my earlier post and add that I don't think Babchuk shouldn't be re-signed, it's just that I don't think he is a "MUST SIGN" as stated in the original post. If he'll take the minimum raise his contract allows, I would welcome him back to the roster. If for some reason he isn't back next year, I don't think it would be a significant blow to the roster. We already have another one-dimensional powerplay quarterback in the system by the name of Kyle Lawson, who could potentially carve out a niche for himself on the roster in the future.
Here we go again trusting unproven prospects over proven NHLers. Bryan Rodney, Brett Carson, Kyle Lawson, Anton Babchuk...one of these names is not like the other.

McBain is the only one I could see being as good offensively as Babchuk is now and he's likely a year away from making the NHL, let alone being an impact player.

Furthermore, to call Babchuk a "one-dimensional powerplay quarterback" is a joke. He had the highest shot-blocking rate per minute played of any of our defensemen, the best +/- and logged over 14 minutes a game at even strength. If he was "powerplay specialist" he'd be playing Hutchinson-level minutes.

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For Babchuk, I also wouldn't completely discount a defection back to the KHL. The fact that he was the only player that refused to speak with the media after his exit interview with Rutherford kind of speaks volumes. I still think there is alot of bitterness on the side of the organization for what he did last year. His play in the postseason really didn't do alot to temper those feelings.
I wouldn't discount him going to the KHL either because JR isn't going to offer him what he's worth yet again. He scored 16 goals/35 points and yet we're only willing to offer him the minimum QO because of a bad postseason?

Meanwhile we're going to offer multi-million dollar contracts to the likes of Tuomo Ruutu (produced nothing in playoffs), Erik Cole (produced nothing in the playoffs) and Chad LaRose (one good season at the age of 27 in a UFA contract year).

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06-05-2009, 01:29 AM
  #33
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Babchuk will not defect back to the KHL. I would almost bet that 100% due to the fact that he has always contended that he wanted to be here in the NHL. Even while in Russia he lamented the way the game was played and how much better it was in North America. He's not your typical Russian player. He went there as a means of last resort and now that he has earned a one way contract, he'll be staying here. Even if that takes playing out his restricted years for a team that acts like it doesn't appreciate his value and pulls the plug on him after a few pretty bad games after 40+ great games.

Babchuk will stay with Carolina and he'll grind out his restricted years and then he'll leave and earn his rightful money somewhere else. JR doesn't want this kid for the long term. It wouldn't shock me at all to see his rights traded this offseason along with a guy like Eaves for a potential first line winger. I think it's the wrong choice to make, but it isn't an unlikely one. If we do manage to keep him, we won't keep him long term. I think he's ready to get out of here and it's hard to really blame him. It seems like everybody else gets a mile long leash and whenever Anton has a rough patch he's a healthy scratch. Erik Cole went eons without producing on the first line and not only was he never a healthy scratch, he never even MOVED from the first line. Tim Gleason was beaten like a rented mule for the duration of the Pittsburgh series and he didn't even have his minutes reduced. It baffles the mind.

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06-05-2009, 06:09 AM
  #34
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I decided to put together a counter-argument towards signing Babchuk.

Babchuk can't anchor his own pairing
When paired with Pitkanen, Babchuk went +10 at even strength (+13 counting shorthanded play). When paired with anybody else, Babchuk went even.

Babchuk is colossally slow and needs a speedy defensive partner that can move the puck. Assuming Seidenberg is gone, the only LH defenseman on the team that fits that description is Pitkanen.

Now here's the problem: Pitkanen is a top-pairing defenseman, while Babchuk is a bottom-pairing defenseman. Pairing the two together kills any match-up potential, which is why we often saw the defensive mastermind that is Joe Corvo going up against top lines.

This is why, in my mind, Babchuk's money would be better spent going after a Top 4 defenseman like Mattias Ohlund who doesn't have to babysat by his defensive partner.

Babchuk's shooting percentage was abnormally high
Babchuk shot at a stunning 12.6%. The only defensemen in the league that shot higher was Mike Green. Babchuk's career shooting percentage coming into last season was 5.3%. His shooting percentage will likely come down next season, so don't expect 16 goals unless he starts taking a lot more shots.

It seems that defenders have learned to shut down Babchuk's shot by pressuring him at the point. Similar things have happened Corvo and Pitkanen, but they have the passing and offensive creativity to make up for that and still be effective at producing offense. Babchuk just loads up and blasts the puck regardless of whether there's a forward right in front of him ready to block the shot.

Babchuk's point totals are deceptive as to his offensive ability
Babchuk registered 15 PP points in 170:42 of PP time. That's a very good rate...

...but the powerplay SUCKED with Babchuk on it. 16 PP goals were scored with Babchuk on the ice and somehow he netted 15 points out of that.

Compare that to Corvo (43 goals for, 21 points), Pitkanen (34 goals for, 14 points), and Seidenberg (23 goals for, 11 points) and it's obvious that Babchuk was a bit fortunate in collecting PP points.

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06-05-2009, 06:17 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
It seems like everybody else gets a mile long leash and whenever Anton has a rough patch he's a healthy scratch.
Which I believe is directly linked to his actions when he was assigned to Albany two years ago. I didn't agree with the demotion and the reason why it happened, but it did happen and Babchuk could've handled it better. At one time, Rutherford had to have some idea of what Babchuk could add to this roster or he never would have traded for him in the first place. I just think what happened two years ago severed any type of working relationship Babchuk could've have with this franchise in the future.

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06-05-2009, 06:28 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by JustJoe2k5 View Post
Which I believe is directly linked to his actions when he was assigned to Albany two years ago. I didn't agree with the demotion and the reason why it happened, but it did happen and Babchuk could've handled it better. At one time, Rutherford had to have some idea of what Babchuk could add to this roster or he never would have traded for him in the first place. I just think what happened two years ago severed any type of working relationship Babchuk could've have with this franchise in the future.
Babchuk was a healthy scratch for a few games prior to the demotion. Meanwhile, Gleason sucked that season and never was a healthy scratch a single time.

Other than Erik Cole, Tim Gleason may be the most overrated player ever to put on a Hurricanes uniform. He's a decent #3 defenseman yet 'Canes fans act like he's some top-pairing shutdown stud.

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06-05-2009, 06:34 AM
  #37
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Where's Borsig? Surely he'd have come to crap all over this thread by now.

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06-05-2009, 07:38 AM
  #38
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Where's Borsig? Surely he'd have come to crap all over this thread by now.
nah, bandwagon fans are usually off the wagon as soon as season is over. I doubt we'll see him.

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06-05-2009, 08:27 AM
  #39
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Babchuk should definitely be re-signed, and he should get more of a raise than the minimum offer the Canes have to give him. He earned a larger raise with his regular season play. Trainiac's numbers looked good to me.

It seemed to me in the playoffs he just still playing with regular season speed and intensity and wasn't able to ratchet his game up. Hopefully, that is something he will be able to do in the future.

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06-05-2009, 08:59 AM
  #40
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I think AB has hit on the key in his criticism post. Re-signing Babchuk is a good thing, but the need is to find another defenseman, preferably a defensive righty to pair with Pitkanen, that will make Gleason/Corvo the 2nd pairing and push Babchuk back to the 3rd pair. That is where he fits best now, and at 1.1-1.3 million it's even affordable if you can take Kaberle off the books.

My bigger question is who that would be and who would pair on the 3rd pair with Babchuk. Wallin seems like a very slow 3rd pairing. Will Borer be healthy, or can Carson or Rodney fill in next to Babchuk? If Kaberle is kept, is that 1st pairing defenseman affordable?

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06-05-2009, 11:29 AM
  #41
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No reason not to keep him. If anything, he'll probably have increased trade value.

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06-05-2009, 01:05 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Babchuk View Post
Babchuk was a healthy scratch for a few games prior to the demotion.
Right, not only was Babchuk a healthy scratch but it was on the heels of an absolutely horrible stretch of hockey on his part. His demotion was tied more to that than his two-way contract despite the common assertions to the contrary. I simply can't give the guy a free pass, as some do, after going AWOL during a playoff stretch even it was bad advice from his agent.

He had a 20-25 game stretch at the end of this year that was stellar and it helped build up his points totals in a big way. But those wild swings are a big part of the issue with him - his performance can go from very good to very bad almost overnight and without warning. Confidence does play a part but the fact that two separate head coaches and D coaches have opted to send him to the press box speaks to the fine line in his game more than being in anyone's doghouse.

That is part of a D's development but the peaks and valleys in his play are dramatic. He can be a useful player and should be re-signed but it seems he also needs to make a full commitment to his teammates. He reportedly continues to be a loner and his outlook only seems to brighten when he is playing well. It doesn't seem like he has earned back his teammates or the organization's trust. JR made a pretty dumb and unnecessary public comment about taking a QO or heading back to Russia but you wonder what caused it.

As far as the righty/lefty pairing, that is more of nice-to-have than a necessity. The bigger issue for him is to have the right partner who can be a calming influence and can cover for him. If that's another righty, then so be it. He really needs to make better decisions with the puck and with his positioning and could use a veteran as a mentor, like Hedican did with Commodore and then Gleason. That guy doesn't exist on the roster today though.

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06-05-2009, 03:27 PM
  #43
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I don't think Babchuk is a "have to sign" player.

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06-05-2009, 04:25 PM
  #44
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As for my two cents on the player, I like him. Always have. I even defended him when he refused to report to Albany, on the grounds he didn't deserve how the organization was handling that situation. But at this point, I think we have to admit that the relationship between player and organization is damaged, perhaps beyond repair. I don't think anybody within the organization likes him or even talks to him. He avoids the media and fans. He doesn't seem to especially enjoy being here, etc.

I'd like to have the hockey player back, but I don't care if the guy leaves.
What evidence do you have that none of the organization likes/talks to him? Considering nothing but good came from the players mouth's when Babs was playing really well near the end of the season, I doubt he's hated.

And I don't know about your experience with him, but I've never had a problem getting his autograph, etc., after games, during those events, etc. He's reclusive, but he's not the only player on the team that is.

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06-05-2009, 04:53 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
What evidence do you have that none of the organization likes/talks to him? Considering nothing but good came from the players mouth's when Babs was playing really well near the end of the season, I doubt he's hated.

And I don't know about your experience with him, but I've never had a problem getting his autograph, etc., after games, during those events, etc. He's reclusive, but he's not the only player on the team that is.
The kinda of evidence I can't really talk about. Sorry to go all "Eklund" on you, but I have heard this from "inside the room."

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06-05-2009, 05:35 PM
  #46
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The kinda of evidence I can't really talk about. Sorry to go all "Eklund" on you, but I have heard this from "inside the room."
Then you'll understand if you're given the same credibility as Eklund in this particular matter.

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06-05-2009, 06:54 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Then you'll understand if you're given the same credibility as Eklund in this particular matter.
Zing!!!!

But i did wonder why during his stellar stretch no player ever mentioned him in postgame interviews unless they were asked directly about Anton. But frankly that doesnt prove anything except i have an active imagination.

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06-05-2009, 06:57 PM
  #48
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[QUOTE=totalkev;19800718]
Anyhow, with all the discussion of what Anton Babchuk is or isn't, we're missing out on one fact. He's an RFA without arbitration rights who will almost certainly be qualified (at the absolute minimum, not doubt, but he will be qualified) by his team.
QUOTE]


Well that makes this discussion moot doesnt it. 1 year deal worth 1.1 or peace out. Personally i wouldnt entertain a multi year deal until i see him play a full season at the stretch run level.

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06-05-2009, 07:17 PM
  #49
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Zing!!!!

But i did wonder why during his stellar stretch no player ever mentioned him in postgame interviews unless they were asked directly about Anton. But frankly that doesnt prove anything except i have an active imagination.
I didn't read too much into it. Not to mention I heard a few times from other sources that he seems to have gotten along a lot better with others as the season went along. Especially since he was actually being trusted by Maurice... for the most part.

That said, I wouldn't put it past JR at all to still hold a grudge with Babchuk after refusing to report to Albany. I was on his side when he was demoted, then turned against him when he didn't report but the more I thought about it the more I thought it wasn't just about being sent to the AHL. Let's not forget that the team was on a road trip to Norfolk when it happened and he doesn't exactly have the best history there. Between being disliked when he was there and the bottle throwing incident, I would want absolutely nothing with going back there myself if there was another option.


Last edited by DaveG: 06-05-2009 at 07:42 PM.
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06-05-2009, 07:34 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Then you'll understand if you're given the same credibility as Eklund in this particular matter.
No offense, but I do know totalkev personally and I know his sources of info. He's definitely not Dwayne Klessel.

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