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Old
06-08-2009, 08:46 PM
  #76
faulkingdynamic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
RFA players are usually given raises based on production. Giving a player close to fair market value as an RFA is tantamount in establishing loyalty in that player. Babchuk signed last season for slightly more than his QO unless i'm mistaken, and it should probably happen again based on what we saw from him this year. I think $1.5 would be fair. Just an extra few hundred thousand to show him we appreciate his production.
This is typically only true once the player gains arbitration rights and not before.


And did someone just compare Wesley and Babchuk? Wow July 1st cant get here soon enough and let this thread die.

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06-08-2009, 09:16 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eerodynamic View Post
This is typically only true once the player gains arbitration rights and not before.
Cam Ward didn't have arbitration rights and got $2.667M/yr...and that was coming off a season where he posted a brutal .897SV%.

I can think of TONS of players around the league that got big raises despite not being arbitration eligible.

Quote:
And did someone just compare Wesley and Babchuk? Wow July 1st cant get here soon enough and let this thread die.
The point was that Wesley was very slow in his last few years here but was still able to be an effective bottom-pairing defenseman due to excellent positioning. Nobody is trying to compare Babchuk defensively to Wesley in his prime.

Babchuk's positioning is very good. Usually slow defenders take a lot of penalties due to getting burnt, but Babchuk only took 8 minor penalties the entire season.

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06-09-2009, 08:34 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Well, that comparison's flawed in numerous ways. First, Belanger scored about half the amount that Babchuk did. He also spent most of his time complaining about his lack of ice time. Belanger was a bigheaded loudmouth that thought he was better than he actually was. I really doubt you can say Babs is anything like that.
Well first I wasn't comparing Babchuk and Belanger. I was stating that if you have a guy on the team who doesn't want to be there or players don't want there it can affect chemistry. I have no inside sources or know for a fact that Babchuk a) doesn't want to be in that locker room or b) his teammates don't want him there. But if either one of those are the case, then that will affect team chemistry as it did with Belanger.

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06-09-2009, 10:43 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Babchuk View Post
Cam Ward didn't have arbitration rights and got $2.667M/yr...and that was coming off a season where he posted a brutal .897SV%.

I can think of TONS of players around the league that got big raises despite not being arbitration eligible.

Babchuk's positioning is very good. Usually slow defenders take a lot of penalties due to getting burnt, but Babchuk only took 8 minor penalties the entire season.
Cornerstone players like Ward do indeed get those big raises while role players typically don't, especially if there are lingering questions about off the ice issues. Cole kept having to sign one-year deals for around $1 million/season before he cashed in and got overpaid.

Babchuk's positioning can be good for stretches but can unravel without warning too. Ironically, I actually look at the 8 minors as more an indicator of weakness than strength for a guy like him. When he gets beaten badly in transition or turns the puck over at the blue line, he gets caught totally flat-footed and it's his partner who either has to make the play or take the penalty.

Where I'd like to see him be decidedly more aggressive, which would invariably result in roughing and cross-check penalties is down low. Too often he starts chasing and leaves his side unprotected and given the choice of tap-in goals or a cross-check, he's better off sending the signal. Ideally you'd want great positioning and discipline but in reality I'd prefer to see him battle around the crease even if it means more minors. I think he plays a timid brand of hockey, a la Kaberle, down low and should take a page from Pitkanen who finally is starting to get more assertive around the crease.

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06-10-2009, 05:48 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by totalkev View Post
And No. 2, I compared my statement to Eklund for a laugh. I know you can't take it at face value because it's unattributed, but people do know me and know that I'm not making stuff up. I can tell you that there are many players on the team who aren't the least bit indifferent about Anton -- they simply hate him.
I just want to make sure that I wasn't the guy claiming that you were trying to Eklund us, as i've been in situations before where I had a weak connection to help me piece something together and have been taken to task as a result. Not saying your connection is weak, only saying that I understand what it is to have to try to justify your knowledge while maintaining the anonymity of your source. I appreciate any "inside info" that anybody can offer and evaluate it as fairly as possible. Including any that happens to float my way first.

As far as the organizational line regarding not increasing from the QO for team controlled RFA guys, it seems that philosophy has changed with the current tide of economics in the NHL. Offer sheets, in particular, have encouraged GMs to bend slightly in order to lock them up quickly as to not expose them to the open market. While this is usually reserved for hot properties, as was mentioned earlier in the thread with Ward, it has also trickled down to the smaller fish. I actually think that the $1.0 million that Babchuk made this year was more than his 10% increase. I could be mistaken on that, as ELC deals are a bit of a mystery to me in regards to cap hit and actual take home... but the point remains. Smart GMs are now actually giving out bigger rewards to non-arbitration eligible players in hopes that they make the deal look silly before it expires. Unless i'm mistaken, Patrick Eaves is another guy that got more than his QO and was ineligible for arbitration.

According to nhlscap.com, which is maintained by a somewhat revered capologist around here by the name of Irish Blues, Babchuk is actually arbitration eligible this summer. That could make things very interesting.

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06-10-2009, 08:52 PM
  #81
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I think Babchuk is actually eligible for arbitration from glossing over the requirements in the CBA. Funny that JR wouldn't realize this. He must be really on top of things...

This actually scares me. Judging solely from his numbers he might be getting a favorable ruling, perhaps too much for what he actually brings. But there are also other things that could possibly drive down his reward, such as his bolting for Russia, his poor playoff performance, etc. Like you said Vagrant, it will be really interesting.

For anyone who wants to read a sample arbitration ruling and the basics of determining who's eligible, here's an interesting link: http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16113


Last edited by vwg*: 06-10-2009 at 09:02 PM.
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06-10-2009, 09:55 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caner Soze View Post
I think Babchuk is actually eligible for arbitration from glossing over the requirements in the CBA. Funny that JR wouldn't realize this. He must be really on top of things...
Well, we are talking about the same GM that was unaware that Bret Hedican had activated his player option...

Quote:
This actually scares me. Judging solely from his numbers he might be getting a favorable ruling, perhaps too much for what he actually brings. But there are also other things that could possibly drive down his reward, such as his bolting for Russia, his poor playoff performance, etc. Like you said Vagrant, it will be really interesting.
We would get owned in arbitration. Denis Grebeshkov is another guy that bolted for Russia, put up similar numbers to Babchuk this year and reportedly has signed a three-year deal for $3M/yr.

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06-10-2009, 10:20 PM
  #83
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I really don't think he is arb elig... If not, offer him a min Qual and see if he plays...

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06-10-2009, 10:43 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Babchuk View Post
We would get owned in arbitration. Denis Grebeshkov is another guy that bolted for Russia, put up similar numbers to Babchuk this year and reportedly has signed a three-year deal for $3M/yr.
I wasn't aware Grebeshkov signed that big of a deal. If so, thank you Tambellini and the Oilers! Granted he is one of their best D-men and Babchuk has almost identical stats point and +/- wise and Babchuk at times was one of our best. But I just don't think they are the same d-men when it comes to consistency, skill sets, and what they bring to the team which is why Babchuk should get around half that or maybe a little more. He should definitely get more than his QO though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurricane_SVT View Post
I really don't think he is arb elig... If not, offer him a min Qual and see if he plays...
He has accrued 4 NHL seasons/years of "professional experience" (10 or more games constitutes a season according to the CBA) after signing his first contract which makes him arbitration eligible to my understanding. There are other provisions about age and when you signed the contract, but 4 years is the most it takes to be arbitration eligible for any player and Babchuk has 4.


Last edited by vwg*: 06-10-2009 at 10:50 PM.
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06-10-2009, 10:54 PM
  #85
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Babchuk only has three accrued seasons by that standard.

03-04: 5 games
05-06: 39 games
06-07: 52 games
08-09: 72 games


Last edited by impeach estaalo: 06-10-2009 at 11:02 PM.
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06-10-2009, 11:09 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Babchuk View Post
Babchuk only has three accrued seasons by that standard.

03-04: 5 games
05-06: 39 games
06-07: 52 games
08-09: 72 games
Oops. You're right, I misread 05-06 as two seasons. He's actually not eligible for arbitration then. He signed his SPC before he turned 20 and has one more season to go (it takes 4 years of experience if you sign prior to 20), at least that's what it looks like to me. Guess I gotta take back my comment on JR.

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06-10-2009, 11:35 PM
  #87
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Still unsure about his status. The 04-05 season kind of knots things up, as i'm not sure if he was given credit for that as an accrued year of service. Still though, the verbiage in the CBA is a bit confusing to me. At one point it states 10 NHL games, then later in the same paragraph states professional games. If it's 10 games in 5 professional years, then Babchuk meets the criteria. If it's 10 NHL games in 5 seasons, then he does not. I also have no clue on how the defection year plays into that tally.

Irish Blues usually has his stuff down, so until further notice i'll assume he does have those rights. In fact, i'll send him a message and ask him about it.

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06-11-2009, 12:16 AM
  #88
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I was going to ask him also, but post his answer. He knows his stuff. I'm not 100% sure myself. You're right about the ambiguity of the CBA. It can be extremely confusing along with considering the lockout in 04-05. If it turns out he is in fact arbitration eligible I'm going to really wonder about JR.

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06-11-2009, 12:41 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues
Eligibility for arbitration is determined by years of professional experience. A player age 18 or 19 gets a year of professional experience toward arbitration by playing in at least 10 NHL games in a season; after that, a player gets a year of professional experience toward arbitration by playing in at least 10 professional games [NHL, minors, or European league games - including playoffs in all three cases] while signed to an SPC.

When I calculate the arbitration-eligible status of players, I look at two things:
1. Their age when they first signed, and
2. The number of years elapsed since they signed.

The files I get don't specifically state, "______ is/isn't eligible for arbitration." That's something I have to go figure out - and instead of going through 1600 names to filter through and see who might be eligible and figure those guys individually, I make a simplifying assumption based on the two criteria above. It does appear that Babchuk is a pro season shy of being arbitration-eligible, but at this time I don't have the time to go figure this out for every player in the league that might be affected. [As an aside, Babchuk is credited by the NHL with "6b" pro seasons and 3 accrued seasons as of the end of the 2008-09 season; the 'b' refers to the fact that his entry-level contract slid twice.]
He got back to me surprisingly fast. It seems that Babchuk isn't eligible for arbitration after all.

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06-11-2009, 01:44 AM
  #90
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Ah, thanks for posting it. The exact reasoning is more complex than what I thought, but I'm glad he's not arby eligible. It should help with negotiations, but that's not to say we should lowball him with minimum QO which seems like there's a fair chance JR is going to do. I won't be surprised if he gets an offer sheet even with his less than stellar playoff performance or if he's not a Cane one way or another by next season. Babchuk and the Canes certainly have created an interesting situation here.

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06-17-2009, 01:39 PM
  #91
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http://postgazette.com/pg/09168/9779...xzz0IiIVJp3w&D

Alex Goligoski has signed a three-year deal at an average of $1,833,333. He spent a good chunk of the season in the minors, posted 20 points in 46 games in the NHL and only played in two playoff games in the Penguins' Cup run.

Babchuk is not going to accept his qualifying offer...and he shouldn't.

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06-17-2009, 03:22 PM
  #92
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All I have to say is that JR better trade him before:

1. He holds out.

2. He defects.

If he doesn't, then he's an idiot. JR obviously doesn't want him here anymore so we had better get fair value for a 16 goal scoring 25 year old defenseman.

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06-17-2009, 03:26 PM
  #93
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Now that just made things a lot more interesting. Big time.

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06-17-2009, 03:43 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton Babchuk View Post
Babchuk is not going to accept his qualifying offer...and he shouldn't.
What is his other choice? Going back to Russia?

I am thinking he'll have no choice but to sign QO in a one year deal and that will be it for his stint in Carolina.

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06-17-2009, 04:17 PM
  #95
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Thats nice for Goligoski but that kind of deal doesnt work in Carolina since we dont spend to the cap like the Pens. The cap hits dont look bad at 1.8 over 3 but the third year of the Goligoski deal is 2.75 million, they are gambling he gets better. And what is Kris Letang thinking???? Every deal he signs ends up being less than Goligoski despite the fact that he is a much better player.

And Goligoski is only making 1.25 this year and 1.5 next year......i think we would all be okay with that price tag on Anton. I dont think this deal really blows up anything involving Anton and JR, except that it guarantees the deal will not be long term, which JR wasnt going to do anyways

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06-17-2009, 05:14 PM
  #96
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At this point I'm going to be somewhat surprised if Babchuk doesn't get traded.

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06-17-2009, 06:29 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by wolfofthesteppes View Post
At this point I'm going to be somewhat surprised if Babchuk doesn't get traded.
Or if he doesn't bolt back to Russia for more money, which is a shame because this team needs all the PP weapons we can get.

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06-17-2009, 06:59 PM
  #98
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JR has a new interview up on the main Hurricanes board. http://hurricanes.nhl.com/

He comes right out and says that it's looking unlikely that we'll be keeping Dennis with the lack of progress they've had so far in their talks... And the RFA's haven't even been talked to yet. I'm wondering if Babs isn't gonna be put into a trade deal. It seems to me like JR is feeling just fine with putting some of our young guys on the back end.

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06-17-2009, 07:39 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caniac4ever View Post
JR has a new interview up on the main Hurricanes board. http://hurricanes.nhl.com/

He comes right out and says that it's looking unlikely that we'll be keeping Dennis with the lack of progress they've had so far in their talks... And the RFA's haven't even been talked to yet. I'm wondering if Babs isn't gonna be put into a trade deal. It seems to me like JR is feeling just fine with putting some of our young guys on the back end.
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06-17-2009, 07:53 PM
  #100
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I wonder if JR would trade Babchuk at the draft along with our #27 pick in order to move up. I still get the feeling Landon Ferraro has 'Jimmy Rutherdord - I am your safe pick with charachter' written all over him.


After such a good outing in the regular season, something just seems off with JR regarding Anton that just makes me scratch my head.


Last edited by Guerzy: 06-17-2009 at 08:09 PM.
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