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We MUST sign Anton Babchuk

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Old
07-14-2009, 06:27 AM
  #176
dmonk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caniacho View Post
Zherdev reminds me for Pitkanen. Tremendous talent but needs more time and place like Raleigh to find his game.
I don't think comparison is right.

Zherdev had Columbus, very similar time and space to Raleigh.
He actually wanted to play in big city like New York and was really happy when he ended up with Rangers.

He doesn't like smaller provincial cities.

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07-14-2009, 10:05 AM
  #177
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Zherdev has already elected to take the Rangers to salary arbitration, so I doubt he would be anymore eager to sign here at a price that Karmanos and Rutherford are willing to offer.

I'd love to have someone with his ability on the roster, but I think it's just too much of a risk for someone like Rutherford to take.

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07-14-2009, 10:08 AM
  #178
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The risk doesn't bother me given that it's Babchuk you are dealing, but using up the remaining budget on Zherdev does. If you add Ruutu at 2.5-3 million and Zherdev's arbitration value, I don't think you can get another defenseman in even if Kaberle is bought out. Then you are left with Wallin, Harrison, or one of the prospects in the top 4.

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07-14-2009, 10:44 AM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Any chance of something to include Ruutu on your end for Rozsival?

Zherdev + Rozsival for Babchuk, Tuomo Ruutu, Kaberle + (any additional salary dump)

Note: Rozsival has a $5 million cap hit, but actual salary of 6, 4, 3 over the next three years, which may be desirable if you're trying to keep the payroll under wraps.
I'd take a definite pass. Sure it would solve the Babchuk stalemate and offload Kaberle's contract but the net gains/net losses don't add up.

Rozsival's style of play is not what is lacking here and Zherdev would add skill but would be a huge downgrade in grit, physical play and size if Ruutu went the other way. Zherdev definitely has top-end one-on-one talent but the Canes don't play the kind of style where his skills would be a fit-upgrade over Ruutu's.

The philosophy is still predicated on a physical forecheck, puck possession and cycling. Zherdev is very good with the puck but not great overall in terms of those qualities. He isn't the playmaking wing that Staal needs and I still am not convinced his work ethic questions have been answered.

I'd possibly do that deal in a fantasy league but not in reality.

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07-14-2009, 04:55 PM
  #180
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Jay Grossman, Babchuk's agent, gave an interview in russian media.

He said pretty much the same things Babchuk said in his interview and when asked about Vancouver or Rangers as possible destinations he didn't confirm. "We are working with several teams" - he said - "we are still in negotiation stages and it is not like we have July 1st deadline, we taking our time to do what's best for Anton"

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07-21-2009, 08:21 PM
  #181
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Babchuk Speaks

The embarrassing thing about this is that they already have a 7 or 8 page thread on this on the Rangers board and Carolina beat writers have yet to even discover it. What else is new?

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate...rUrl=Translate

The interesting thing is that 6 or 8 teams are interested, including the Rangers and Canucks. Let the speculation begin.

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07-21-2009, 08:31 PM
  #182
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That translation is so ridiculous I gave up.

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07-21-2009, 08:37 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardiac_Canes View Post
That translation is so ridiculous I gave up.
Yes, it's quite bad.... but if you're a veteran babble fish decoder you can at least put together a bit of what he's trying to say.

The most important parts are said in English, really. There are a few teams interested and JR is talking to them.

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07-21-2009, 08:41 PM
  #184
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The question is just what will JR be looking for as a return. From the sound of things he wants to move a forward to acquire the other defenseman rather then just Babchuk's rights, mostly because of the financial side of things.

I do have to laugh at some of the proposals on the Rangers board though. We might as well be offering Babchuk's rights for Anisimov and a 2nd if they think in ANY way that Rosival and a 3rd for Ruutu and Babchuk is a realistic possibility. JR isn't Gainey, not even close to that kind of idiocy.

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07-21-2009, 08:47 PM
  #185
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Quote:
have you really declined $1mil contract from Carolina?

Yes, i did. I think i deserve beter than that. and i am ready to argue my point of view.
Look at my statistics. I am 4th d-man in NHL in scored goals and best in Carolina.
I am best defenseman in Carolina in "+/-". I don't know why management didn't take all this in consideration.

What if they give you 2 mil contract?
I wouldn't want to talk about numbers at the moment. I had certain wishes and my agent worked with the team.
Carolina, however, had other ideas. Last week my agent was working on possible trades with other teams.


What are the potential teams where Babchuk could play?
I've heard from my agent that 7 or 8 teams were interested, including Rangers and Vancouver. I am optimistic about my future


What did Carolina said where you refused?
Quite alright. It's a business. Management wants to get the best possible player at the least possible price. Player wants to get paid as much as he can.


Do you think you'll continue your career in Russia?
Nothing is impossible, but honestly, I'd like to continue my career in NHL. I'll try to demand to have at least 3 year contract.

Why did you play so poorly early in the season and started playing much better the second half?
Lavi trusted me much less than Maurice. Maurice gave me ice time and if Lavi did the same you'd see my statistics much better earlier in the year.
dmonk posted this translation of the key points of the interview in the 'we must sign anton babchuk' thread.

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Old
07-21-2009, 08:49 PM
  #186
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Some of them are throwing other guys like Corvo and Sutter into their proposals too, as if we're willing to move them for a package featuring Rozsival and Zherdev. I'm not interested in either of those guys. The rags don't have any roster players I'm interested in that would be available in a trade that would make sense for us. Not sure why they all think Ruutu is available either. You'd think a player has never been a tough sign before in league history.

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Old
07-21-2009, 08:54 PM
  #187
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Merged the threads. As wolfofthesteppes said, dmonk did post it here, so we gotta give him some credit. It also got posted over at Canes Country where most of the responses absolutely tore Babchuk apart as if he had said he hated Carolina, hated America, hated JR, and demanded 12 million dollars to come back.

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Old
07-21-2009, 08:55 PM
  #188
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There is no way JR is taking on Rozsival's contract, IMO.

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Old
07-21-2009, 09:01 PM
  #189
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I could see the Canes going after a prospect from them like Del Zotto or Sanguianetti (please no on that one, I didn't like Sangs in the 06 draft, don't like him now) for Babchuk after the Rangers landed McDonaugh. A contract like Rosival is just out of the question for the Canes even if he just made his cap hit this year. Instead he makes 6 million, same as Staal and more then Pitkanen or Ward. Just no way I can see JR going for that contract, none.

edit: obviously not Babchuk straight up, but that's the type of player I can see them trading for if they get their defenseman elsewhere.


Last edited by DaveG: 07-21-2009 at 09:06 PM.
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Old
07-21-2009, 09:09 PM
  #190
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If JR was to ever take on a contract of $5 million, Rozsival's would be the ideal candidate. The deescalation from $6 to $4 to $3 million increases his value exponentially to a small market club. With that said, Kaberle at $2.2 is dead money. Eaves at $1.4 is dead money. We have players in the minors at league minimum who could give us the same things at their slots. Eaves is a slotted 4th liner and Kaberle isn't even slotted.

So there we are with $3.6 in dead money. With Babchuk's qualifying offer added in, it's $4.6 in dead money.

I don't know what we were offering Seidenberg, but I know it would make a hell of a lot more sense to pay ONE player $6 million for a season than it would to buy out Kaberle, let Eaves rot on the 4th line, and sign a replacement for the Top 4 in the $1.5 million range.

If the Rangers could take Kaberle and Eaves back with Babchuk, then I could easily see Carolina making that deal. Not only would it get Carolina out from underneath paying players to do nothing, but it would give us a legit Top 4 defenseman for the next two years at $4 million in 2010-2011 and $3 million in 2011-2012.

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07-22-2009, 08:43 AM
  #191
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JR said two things yesterday that will ruin Rangers fans any hope of getting rid of Zherdev and Roszival to Carolina:

1-He is still looking to trade a FORWARD for a defensemen who can play with Pitkanen and log a ton of minutes (that's not Roszival and not at that salary)

2-Will trade Babchuk for a high prospect (that's not Zherdev or Roszival)

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07-22-2009, 09:02 AM
  #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant View Post
If JR was to ever take on a contract of $5 million, Rozsival's would be the ideal candidate. The deescalation from $6 to $4 to $3 million increases his value exponentially to a small market club. With that said, Kaberle at $2.2 is dead money. Eaves at $1.4 is dead money. We have players in the minors at league minimum who could give us the same things at their slots. Eaves is a slotted 4th liner and Kaberle isn't even slotted.

So there we are with $3.6 in dead money. With Babchuk's qualifying offer added in, it's $4.6 in dead money.

I don't know what we were offering Seidenberg, but I know it would make a hell of a lot more sense to pay ONE player $6 million for a season than it would to buy out Kaberle, let Eaves rot on the 4th line, and sign a replacement for the Top 4 in the $1.5 million range.

If the Rangers could take Kaberle and Eaves back with Babchuk, then I could easily see Carolina making that deal. Not only would it get Carolina out from underneath paying players to do nothing, but it would give us a legit Top 4 defenseman for the next two years at $4 million in 2010-2011 and $3 million in 2011-2012.
This makes sense, but when I look at the numbers from DaveG's capology thread, I don't see it working. Right now I count 46.85 without Sutter and before Ruutu signs. Dealing Eaves, Babchuk, and Kaberle for Rozsival would bump the total payroll to 49.25 before Ruutu signs and still require one more forward and one more defenseman in addition to Ruutu and Rozsival.

Even if you replace Eaves with Walker in the trade, Rozsival just doesn't fit under the payroll limits.


Last edited by Chrispy: 07-22-2009 at 09:16 AM.
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07-22-2009, 09:53 AM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrispy View Post
This makes sense, but when I look at the numbers from DaveG's capology thread, I don't see it working. Right now I count 46.85 without Sutter and before Ruutu signs. Dealing Eaves, Babchuk, and Kaberle for Rozsival would bump the total payroll to 49.25 before Ruutu signs and still require one more forward and one more defenseman in addition to Ruutu and Rozsival.

Even if you replace Eaves with Walker in the trade, Rozsival just doesn't fit under the payroll limits.
Just looking at it right now

swap out Sutter for say Blanchard and Carson. Savings of about 200K on the cap hit down from 51,970,834 to 51,768,334; but the salary goes up from 47,725,000 to 47,897,500. I'll play it optomistic and say Ruutu gets 3 million and our internal cap this year is 53 million. So we're at 50,897,500 out of 53 million salary; 54,768,334 against the cap. Taking out Eaves and Kaberle and adding Rosival brings that to 53,297,500... managable, maybe. Cap goes to 56,168,334... not a situation that JR would ever want to be in this early in the season. I can see him pushing against the cap like that at the end of the season bringing in a guy like Weight for a cup run, but that's it. And if the Ruutu contract is closer to 4 million? Forget about it, we're over.

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07-22-2009, 10:03 AM
  #194
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The other issue is that I think the budget is closer to 50 million than 53 million, as Rutherford mentioned 50 million on Toronto radio last month. While that probably goes up with Ruutu still unsigned and some slots left to fill, I don't see it going all the way to 53 million.

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07-22-2009, 10:10 AM
  #195
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I think if JR thought he had a complete team as of now he would push closer to the cap. The Weight deal was to fill a clear hole for a run. You could make the argument that after acquiring a Pitkanen partner there would be no holes to fill at the deadline(depending on what is shipped out to get the dman). And if something goes drastically wrong then you would be selling off your rental pieces anyways, which the Canes have. So actually this is the perfect time for the Canes to push near the cap assuming they think all the holes are filled now.

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07-22-2009, 10:18 AM
  #196
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I think that's the big thing though. Our holes aren't filled, at least not yet. Rosival would be one major piece to that puzzle but we'd still need a legit playmaking top line winger for Staal IMO. Thing is that there are other options that would be cheaper pieces to said puzzle out there that could be realistic options. San Jose is in cap hell, Colorado is in rebuild mode, who knows what the hell is going on in Toronto.

I did use 53 as a template because of our salary last year though. We were around 50.5 million and JR did mention on one of his Canesvision broadcasts that he was looking at increasing the salary next season as we'd have quite a few salaries coming off the books as is. Personally I think it will be more like 52 million, but it will still be in a pretty good range.

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07-22-2009, 10:49 AM
  #197
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How would they acquire a top line winger? This was never going to be addressed until next season. It would require trading off the good prospects that would make going forward hard to do with Staal's high dollar deal or trading legitimate players that would make the current team weaker. Neither of those is an option for this team. Even a deadline deal for a top line winger would cost top prospects or top picks.

Since it isnt going to be addressed till next season regardless, I wouldnt count it as a current hole since it wont be plugged at any point this season.

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07-22-2009, 11:01 AM
  #198
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It seems that only the fans are passionate about bringing in a top-line winger; I haven't seen Rutherford talk about it or heard that they were making any real effort to find one. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen, just that it doesn't look like it's going to. Not until around trade deadline time anyway. He seems to feel like the forwards are pretty well set, sort of a don't fix it if it ain't broke kind of thing.

But then, I'm far from the most informed individual about such matters.

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07-22-2009, 11:12 AM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eerodynamic View Post
How would they acquire a top line winger? This was never going to be addressed until next season. It would require trading off the good prospects that would make going forward hard to do with Staal's high dollar deal or trading legitimate players that would make the current team weaker. Neither of those is an option for this team. Even a deadline deal for a top line winger would cost top prospects or top picks.

Since it isnt going to be addressed till next season regardless, I wouldnt count it as a current hole since it wont be plugged at any point this season.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think we will go after a first line winger for Staal until free agency, I frankly don't want to see them give up the assets it would require to land a legit first line winger. I'm just saying that this team isn't complete and adding Rosival would handcuff the team in both internal cap and NHL cap. A guy like Ehrhoff or Salei is a much less expensive solution even if a Kaberle buyout (rather then outright trade) is factored in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoochNorris View Post
It seems that only the fans are passionate about bringing in a top-line winger; I haven't seen Rutherford talk about it or heard that they were making any real effort to find one. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen, just that it doesn't look like it's going to. Not until around trade deadline time anyway. He seems to feel like the forwards are pretty well set, sort of a don't fix it if it ain't broke kind of thing.

But then, I'm far from the most informed individual about such matters.
To paraphrase your avatar: JR DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY, GOODNIGHT!

But seriously it seems that in a lot of cases the past couple years the fans have been a step or two ahead of what JR has been saying in the press/on Canesvision. That's not to say that he's not already talking with Johnston and the other GMs about his options here, but it can appear that he's not worried about it when viewed from the outside looking in.


Last edited by DaveG: 07-22-2009 at 11:21 AM.
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07-22-2009, 11:19 AM
  #200
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I predict this - Aaron Ward will be Cane again. This is JR, no suprise .

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