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Old
12-20-2011, 12:02 PM
  #251
Ivan13
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I'm starting to soften my stance on Sherman even more in light of what's happening in Montreal. It is full-on panic mode there and getting uglier by the second.

Quick, Habs, trade us Moen and Kostitsyn for Hunwick and a 5th rounder!
PG's in denial and he's trying to save his job and while doing that he's hurting the team, they need to start trading their veterans for picks and prospects and he trades for Kaberle.

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12-20-2011, 12:10 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I'm starting to soften my stance on Sherman even more in light of what's happening in Montreal. It is full-on panic mode there and getting uglier by the second.

Quick, Habs, trade us Moen and Kostitsyn for Hunwick and a 5th rounder!
What is more pathetic is fans are caring more of having a bilingual coach than win games. I kind of understand them in one way because I've never been a big fan of Gauthier. But wow this fan base is always overreacting.

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12-20-2011, 12:23 PM
  #253
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What is more pathetic is fans are caring more of having a bilingual coach than win games. I kind of understand them in one way because I've never been a big fan of Gauthier. But wow this fan base is always overreacting.
Some of my friends in Montreal say the "controversy" is more stirred up by politicians and media-types than actual fans. In the end, fans just care about a winner. I don't believe Toe Blake and Scotty Bowman were ever great at speaking French.

But yes, Gauthier is under the gun and unfortunately, the deep-pocketed new owners of these Canadian teams (Ottawa, Edmonton, Montreal) are proving to be quite meddlesome. I know some of us give KSE a lot of flack for their seeming lack of attention, but look at the alternative.

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12-20-2011, 12:28 PM
  #254
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I think Habs fans in general are probably more relaxed about this than politicians that want to take extreme stances. As long as the new coach makes an effort to pick up some conversational French, I think it will be ok. Providing the results are there of course. If not, the coach is in trouble no matter what.

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12-20-2011, 12:31 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I think Habs fans in general are probably more relaxed about this than politicians that want to take extreme stances. As long as the new coach makes an effort to pick up some conversational French, I think it will be ok. Providing the results are there of course. If not, the coach is in trouble no matter what.
They are, a lot of the fans in MTL can't believe that this is happening.

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12-20-2011, 12:37 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Some of my friends in Montreal say the "controversy" is more stirred up by politicians and media-types than actual fans. In the end, fans just care about a winner. I don't believe Toe Blake and Scotty Bowman were ever great at speaking French.

But yes, Gauthier is under the gun and unfortunately, the deep-pocketed new owners of these Canadian teams (Ottawa, Edmonton, Montreal) are proving to be quite meddlesome. I know some of us give KSE a lot of flack for their seeming lack of attention, but look at the alternative.
Believe me, it's the media that are trying to calm the people up. Well the ones that writes in the sports rubric or on the sports network. The other ones are just trying to enhance the ''controversy''. It's usually the fans that doesn't know anything about hockey that whines.

One example I heard on tv: A lady that calls a tv-talk show whining about the matter and she says she's a big fan of the Habs. While she thought that Gauthier was the one making the lineup since JM was there. She says that since Gauthier brought his own ''system'', they aren't winning. Just tells you how aware some fans of Montreal are. They only cheer for the team because it's in Montreal. Other than that they don't know **** about hockey.

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12-20-2011, 12:39 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I think Habs fans in general are probably more relaxed about this than politicians that want to take extreme stances. As long as the new coach makes an effort to pick up some conversational French, I think it will be ok. Providing the results are there of course. If not, the coach is in trouble no matter what.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan13 View Post
They are, a lot of the fans in MTL can't believe that this is happening.
I think I know the situation right now, I'm here. Most of the fans here on HF boards think it's stupid because it's an english website. But believe me, there are A LOT of whiners right now other than politicians who started the controversy. Mostly the ones that cannot even say a word in english.

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Old
01-09-2012, 04:25 PM
  #258
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Sherman responds to the doubters (me):

http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_19697691

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01-09-2012, 04:33 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Sherman responds to the doubters (me):

http://www.denverpost.com/avalanche/ci_19697691
Excited to hear that we will be 'prime buyers'. It probably won't happen but it's at least good to know that management realizes that we have a lot of money to spend and they might actually spend that money.

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01-09-2012, 04:40 PM
  #260
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Excited to hear that we will be 'prime buyers'. It probably won't happen but it's at least good to know that management realizes that we have a lot of money to spend and they might actually spend that money.
That was Dater's comment trying to make the story sound better because the Avs never give anything in the way of quotes. All Sherman said in regards to his future plans were the standard, "always evaluating, always thinking of ways to try to improve the team" and "if there is a situation that exists where it could improve this hockey club, we'll look at it."

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01-09-2012, 04:54 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
That was Dater's comment trying to make the story sound better because the Avs never give anything in the way of quotes. All Sherman said in regards to his future plans were the standard, "always evaluating, always thinking of ways to try to improve the team" and "if there is a situation that exists where it could improve this hockey club, we'll look at it."
And that's what every NHL GM will say when asked about the future of their respective clubs. This article doesn't tell us anything we didn't know already IMHO.

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02-02-2012, 11:35 PM
  #262
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I have to say something and vent here a bit.

So, Sherman and Co were so panicked to find a new goalie that they traded Anderson, let go of Eliott, and gave up a ransom for Varlamov. Fine, but then why go into a complete shell and do nothing else, if you are that desperate to win the next season?

They absolutely hated the idea of going with Jiggy and any other goalie, because of what? The idea they could have another season outside the playoffs?

If that's the case, then why did they not bring in adequate help in scoring forwards?

Why did they not bring in a full time goalie coach to make sure they were doing everything they could to help the player they gave up so much for, and relied upon.

Why would they refuse to fire their coach when the team is playing horrendous hockey, and going through multiple losing streaks at key times, against key teams? A no brainer coaching change is not even considered or even commented on to the media.

Why have they not made one move to bring in a forward with talent to help the scoring? Despite a team with obvious offensive struggles losing arguably their best forward in Duchene for at least a month or more.

I find these things in direct contrast with their panic move to trade for Varlamov. If they are willing to sacrifice the season to hold onto their coach and not make moves for scoring forwards, then they should have been willing to sacrifice the season instead of giving up a ransom for a question mark goalie.

They knew Bernier could be available next offseason, as well as Varlamov himelf, and likely for cheaper. McPhee himself said they intended to move him the following year. If the NHL alignment would have passed, Vancouver wouldn't have been scared to trade Schneider to a former divisional opponent. Plus any weirdness could have developed to make a guy available, like the outside chance of Miller being available in the offseason. Why panic and deal from such a position of weakness, if you aren't willing to do something as simple as fire your coach to save the season?

Meanwhile a guy who was rumored to be on the block during the summer in Sam Gagner, has 8 POINTS tonight against the Blackhawks! 8 friggin points (4g 4a) himself, and no Avalanche could find the back of the net tonight against the Wild. Sherman just sits back, watches, and thanks his lucky stars there's no accountability for Avalanche management...ever.

In response to these type of questions, nothing is asked of Avalanche management from the Denver media. No answers are given. No comments are made. No accountability is present anywhere for management or coaching. No real owner knows or cares enough to make changes at the top.

The only thing we have heard from ownership or management is from the fake, loophole, son of a BILLIONAIRE literally telling his fans they are spoiled and need to be patient. Patience is one thing. Being forced to witness your favorite team run with apathy and zero accountability is a different story altogether.

/end rant

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02-03-2012, 07:21 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I have to say something and vent here a bit........
+1

It's baffling the way the team is being run currently.

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Old
02-03-2012, 09:59 AM
  #264
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No doubt the season isn't going the way Sherman had planned, but there are some things that happened that were out of his control. Not that these are really excuses for Sherman, but things like Duchene being hurt at a critical time of the year. You can put the blame on the front office for not having more depth on offense, but what options were there really? The Avs could have kept Flash, but that is a big contract for a player with health issues. Add the fact that apparently altitude makes his condition worse. Who else was there? Bergenheim and Ward coming off their big playoff performances. Brad Richards. Grabbing top six forwards off the free agent market seems extremely risky. As for trades, if the Avs were going to bring in true top players, look at the price for Richards, and Carter. No one else worthy of acquiring has been traded since the draft. Unless you wanted Kris Versteeg for two second round picks. Or maybe the Avs should have traded their first for Troy Brouwer?

The other thing that is looking bad is Varlamov. I don't think the thought was that Varly was going to come here and get shelled every time he is put in the net. This trade was a big risk and looks bad now, but who knows, next season it could look like the best thing Sherman's done. I don't think anyone should seriously be mad for letting Elliott and Anderson go. Elliott looked like a ECHL goalie in his time with the Avs, and Anderson wanted a 4 year deal, despite not being able to string 4 good games together. The goaltending situation is no doubt better this season, and in the future, and the only thing the Avs gave up was the rights to an unrestricted free agent defenceman, and a 1st round pick. Plus, do you really think Vancouver is going to trade Schneider for less than what the Avs payed to get Varly? If the Avs wanted a promising young goalie, they were going to have to pay. They just so happened to pick Varly. If there is a mistake in the trade, its who they picked, not what they gave up.

Issues are being addressed, slowly but surely. Turning a team around takes time. Sherman has had three off-seasons with the Avs. Can someone point me to a GM who would have done more in that time? Brian Burke has been the GM of Toronto for three offseasons. He has brought in Kessel (at the cost of Seguin+Hamilton), he has brought in Phaneuf. He has not made the playoffs once, and yet hasn't assembled a core nearly as nice as Mueller, Johnson, Varly, Landeskog. Seriously, things could be a lot worse.

Would anyone really want any of these GM's running the team instead of Sherman?

Darcy Regier (Sabres- forked out some of the ugliest contracts in the league)
Dale Tallon (Fired from Chicago for mismanaging contracts. Treats July 1st like a video game and just signs every top player)
Pierre Gauthier (Habs)
Lou Lamoriello (Devils- personally not a fan of what he has done in recent years with the Devils)
Garth Snow (Isles)
Glen Sather (Rangers)
Bryan Murray (Sens)
Yzerman is yet to prove he is anymore intelligent.
Mcphee hasn't done anything to build a team that can compete in the playoffs.
Bob Murray (Ducks)
Jay Feaster (Flames- thinks they should be buyers and won't rebuild)
Scott Howson (BJs)
Joe Nieuwendyk (Hasn't done anything really)
Steve Tambellini (Isn't good at anything other than walking up to the podium first)

That's almost half the GM's in the league. There is really only a select few who don't make "mistakes". I don't get what people expect? The Avs are the youngest team in the NHL, have the lowest payroll, and are heading into a CBA with room to spend. The only blotch on this is not having a 1st round pick on a season when it looks like they won't make the playoffs.

My only gripe with Sherman is the fact that Sacco is still here, especially when the Avs could have someone like Carlyle. This team has so much untapped potential that Sacco is just wasting.

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Old
02-03-2012, 10:08 AM
  #265
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No doubt the season isn't going the way Sherman had planned, but there are some things that happened that were out of his control. Not that these are really excuses for Sherman, but things like Duchene being hurt at a critical time of the year. You can put the blame on the front office for not having more depth on offense, but what options were there really? The Avs could have kept Flash, but that is a big contract for a player with health issues. Add the fact that apparently altitude makes his condition worse. Who else was there? Bergenheim and Ward coming off their big playoff performances. Brad Richards. Grabbing top six forwards off the free agent market seems extremely risky. As for trades, if the Avs were going to bring in true top players, look at the price for Richards, and Carter. No one else worthy of acquiring has been traded since the draft. Unless you wanted Kris Versteeg for two second round picks. Or maybe the Avs should have traded their first for Troy Brouwer?

The other thing that is looking bad is Varlamov. I don't think the thought was that Varly was going to come here and get shelled every time he is put in the net. This trade was a big risk and looks bad now, but who knows, next season it could look like the best thing Sherman's done. I don't think anyone should seriously be mad for letting Elliott and Anderson go. Elliott looked like a ECHL goalie in his time with the Avs, and Anderson wanted a 4 year deal, despite not being able to string 4 good games together. The goaltending situation is no doubt better this season, and in the future, and the only thing the Avs gave up was the rights to an unrestricted free agent defenceman, and a 1st round pick. Plus, do you really think Vancouver is going to trade Schneider for less than what the Avs payed to get Varly? If the Avs wanted a promising young goalie, they were going to have to pay. They just so happened to pick Varly. If there is a mistake in the trade, its who they picked, not what they gave up.

Issues are being addressed, slowly but surely. Turning a team around takes time. Sherman has had three off-seasons with the Avs. Can someone point me to a GM who would have done more in that time? Brian Burke has been the GM of Toronto for three offseasons. He has brought in Kessel (at the cost of Seguin+Hamilton), he has brought in Phaneuf. He has not made the playoffs once, and yet hasn't assembled a core nearly as nice as Mueller, Johnson, Varly, Landeskog. Seriously, things could be a lot worse.

Would anyone really want any of these GM's running the team instead of Sherman?

Darcy Regier (Sabres- forked out some of the ugliest contracts in the league)
Dale Tallon (Fired from Chicago for mismanaging contracts. Treats July 1st like a video game and just signs every top player) While this comment is funny, he did HAVE to sign players. They had to get to the cap floor.
Pierre Gauthier (Habs)
Lou Lamoriello (Devils- personally not a fan of what he has done in recent years with the Devils)
Garth Snow (Isles)
Glen Sather (Rangers)
Bryan Murray (Sens)
Yzerman is yet to prove he is anymore intelligent.
Mcphee hasn't done anything to build a team that can compete in the playoffs.
Bob Murray (Ducks)
Jay Feaster (Flames- thinks they should be buyers and won't rebuild) He is only doing what ownership is telling him to do. Ownership has told him that they are in win now mode. I think he has done a good job of getting some of Sutter's terrible contracts off the books, and has really done a good job at improving the operations of the Flames.
Scott Howson (BJs)
Joe Nieuwendyk (Hasn't done anything really)
Steve Tambellini (Isn't good at anything other than walking up to the podium first)

That's almost half the GM's in the league. There is really only a select few who don't make "mistakes". I don't get what people expect? The Avs are the youngest team in the NHL, have the lowest payroll, and are heading into a CBA with room to spend. The only blotch on this is not having a 1st round pick on a season when it looks like they won't make the playoffs.

My only gripe with Sherman is the fact that Sacco is still here, especially when the Avs could have someone like Carlyle. This team has so much untapped potential that Sacco is just wasting.
I agree with you that Sherman has done a good job at improving the core of this team. He really has. We need 1 more good dman and a go-to top offensive player. That is all we really need on the roster. The biggest issue, like you said, is coaching. I just don't know what will happen with coaching. Lacroix is still the guy in charge there. And if he is, then I think we will once again be disappointed in the choice next season. No doubt in my mind that Sacco is gone.

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02-03-2012, 03:02 PM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
No doubt the season isn't going the way Sherman had planned, but there are some things that happened that were out of his control. Not that these are really excuses for Sherman, but things like Duchene being hurt at a critical time of the year. You can put the blame on the front office for not having more depth on offense, but what options were there really? The Avs could have kept Flash, but that is a big contract for a player with health issues. Add the fact that apparently altitude makes his condition worse. Who else was there? Bergenheim and Ward coming off their big playoff performances. Brad Richards. Grabbing top six forwards off the free agent market seems extremely risky. As for trades, if the Avs were going to bring in true top players, look at the price for Richards, and Carter. No one else worthy of acquiring has been traded since the draft. Unless you wanted Kris Versteeg for two second round picks. Or maybe the Avs should have traded their first for Troy Brouwer?

The other thing that is looking bad is Varlamov. I don't think the thought was that Varly was going to come here and get shelled every time he is put in the net. This trade was a big risk and looks bad now, but who knows, next season it could look like the best thing Sherman's done. I don't think anyone should seriously be mad for letting Elliott and Anderson go. Elliott looked like a ECHL goalie in his time with the Avs, and Anderson wanted a 4 year deal, despite not being able to string 4 good games together. The goaltending situation is no doubt better this season, and in the future, and the only thing the Avs gave up was the rights to an unrestricted free agent defenceman, and a 1st round pick. Plus, do you really think Vancouver is going to trade Schneider for less than what the Avs payed to get Varly? If the Avs wanted a promising young goalie, they were going to have to pay. They just so happened to pick Varly. If there is a mistake in the trade, its who they picked, not what they gave up.

Issues are being addressed, slowly but surely. Turning a team around takes time. Sherman has had three off-seasons with the Avs. Can someone point me to a GM who would have done more in that time? Brian Burke has been the GM of Toronto for three offseasons. He has brought in Kessel (at the cost of Seguin+Hamilton), he has brought in Phaneuf. He has not made the playoffs once, and yet hasn't assembled a core nearly as nice as Mueller, Johnson, Varly, Landeskog. Seriously, things could be a lot worse.

Would anyone really want any of these GM's running the team instead of Sherman?

Darcy Regier (Sabres- forked out some of the ugliest contracts in the league)
Dale Tallon (Fired from Chicago for mismanaging contracts. Treats July 1st like a video game and just signs every top player)
Pierre Gauthier (Habs)
Lou Lamoriello (Devils- personally not a fan of what he has done in recent years with the Devils)
Garth Snow (Isles)
Glen Sather (Rangers)
Bryan Murray (Sens)
Yzerman is yet to prove he is anymore intelligent.
Mcphee hasn't done anything to build a team that can compete in the playoffs.
Bob Murray (Ducks)
Jay Feaster (Flames- thinks they should be buyers and won't rebuild)
Scott Howson (BJs)
Joe Nieuwendyk (Hasn't done anything really)
Steve Tambellini (Isn't good at anything other than walking up to the podium first)

That's almost half the GM's in the league. There is really only a select few who don't make "mistakes". I don't get what people expect? The Avs are the youngest team in the NHL, have the lowest payroll, and are heading into a CBA with room to spend. The only blotch on this is not having a 1st round pick on a season when it looks like they won't make the playoffs.

My only gripe with Sherman is the fact that Sacco is still here, especially when the Avs could have someone like Carlyle. This team has so much untapped potential that Sacco is just wasting.
My main gripe with that rant was that they panicked and gave up so much for a goalie with so many question marks, instead of being "patient" like they keep preaching to their fans. By not going with Jiggy and some other goalie they were saying they couldn't wait and endure another losing season. Which in and of itself can be understandable.

Here's the issue. Why would they then refuse to do other little things like hire a goalie coach for your new addition that you gave up so much for? Why wouldn't you fire your miserable record having head coach? Why would you continue to penny pinch and hope budget buy forwards like Kobasew and Lindstrom would add the offense that was missing the previous year? Why wouldn't you do any of these things if you were that worried about another losing season. And this was before they knew O'Reilly and Landeskog would be having good years. All of these things and they panicked so bad about getting a goalie right that instant because they were scared of missing the playoffs again? They just couldn't wait until during the season or the next offseason when more choices and better deals would be available? It doesn't add up.

This patience stuff is just a bunch of crap to keep from being held accountable for poor moves and lack of moves. Can you imagine the position that PL and Sherman are in when they can have a coach with the absolute worst records I've ever seen against his own conference, and division, and in regulation, and they not only don't have to replace him during the season, they don't have to say one word about it to the media. I may be wrong but I don't think they've said **** about it all year or last year. All that got out was Dater implying he thought Sacco's job was safe for now.

They can F up as much as they want, not have to answer for any of it, and PL can continue this sham for as long as he wants because the owner has no idea of the difference between Kevin Dineen and Joe Sacco, or the difference between Randy Carlyle/Ken Hitchcock/Bruce Boudreau/Darryl Sutter and whatever stooge they end up bringing in as their puppet next. They couldn't tell you the difference between Sam Gagner and Kevin Porter.

What respect to show your fans whom you're asking to be "patient." Just ask them to continue to put up with this crap performance, and this crap coach, and the only thing you say is have faith. It's like they're religious cult leaders. And don't get me started on the heir to a billionaire fake owner calling his fans spoiled. The lack of accountability and at least some level of transparency with this organization is absurd.


Last edited by Foppa2118: 02-03-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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02-03-2012, 03:40 PM
  #267
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I'm excited to see what Sherman does this summer if he's allowed to spend above the cap. He's aggressively filled out the corner stones on this team and is getting close to having the foundation set. He needs to find a primier sniper for the top line and keep the team together, but I'm curious to see what he does. Brings everybody back and brings in a guy like Semin I'd be very excited heading into next year.

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02-03-2012, 04:08 PM
  #268
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Seems like your issue is more with the Kroenke's than with Sherman. I don't know how far Sherman's powers go in terms of hiring and firing employees, but I agree, Sacco should have been fired a long time ago, and they should have hired a full time goalie coach. Especially considering the premium they paid for Varly. This is as far as I would go with complaining about the front office.

I don't think the patience thing is a bunch of crap, as they are clearly moving towards a winner. I do think it is an excuse for the present time to allow them to be cheap with player contracts. This makes it rough on the fans when they pass over decent talent on July 1st, but I do believe they have a plan in place. I don't think the market for players that will actually improve the Avs is as large as you think it is. I don't know how you can believe that the market for goalies is going to become better, and the Avs were going to be able to get a cheaper deal for a goalie. Also, according to Bob Mackenzie, first round picks are going to be the currency at this year's deadline. Apparently the draft isn't that deep afterall, so contending teams are going to fork them over for rentals. Personally, I'd rather "waste" a first round pick on a 23 year old goalie who has a lot of potential, than add a free agent to be like T. Ruutu.

This summer will be the time when they show they are still serious about building a winner. They've positioned themselves perfectly to open their purse on July 1st when guys like Suter and Parise are avalable, while still being able to afford O'Reilly, Duchene, Johnson and whoever else they want to keep. If the Avs miss the playoffs this season, and don't address the needs this summer, then I agree there is something wrong. For the time being though, they have tried addressing all the issues. We didn't have a number one defenceman, Sherman went out and got a player who is close to being a number one defenceman, and has great potential still. The defensive group was to undersized, so they trade for O'Byrne, and sign Hejda/O'Brien. The goaltending sucked, so the Varly trade happened, and Giguere was signed.

I think the Avs are kind of maxed out for assets to acquire new players. They've used up what they felt they won't need, and now were stuck with this team until July 1st. I think Sherman has done his job putting together a core of players. Now Kroenke needs to open his wallet this summer and fill some other holes.

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02-03-2012, 04:26 PM
  #269
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Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
Seems like your issue is more with the Kroenke's than with Sherman. I don't know how far Sherman's powers go in terms of hiring and firing employees, but I agree, Sacco should have been fired a long time ago, and they should have hired a full time goalie coach. Especially considering the premium they paid for Varly. This is as far as I would go with complaining about the front office.

I don't think the patience thing is a bunch of crap, as they are clearly moving towards a winner. I do think it is an excuse for the present time to allow them to be cheap with player contracts. This makes it rough on the fans when they pass over decent talent on July 1st, but I do believe they have a plan in place. I don't think the market for players that will actually improve the Avs is as large as you think it is. I don't know how you can believe that the market for goalies is going to become better, and the Avs were going to be able to get a cheaper deal for a goalie. Also, according to Bob Mackenzie, first round picks are going to be the currency at this year's deadline. Apparently the draft isn't that deep afterall, so contending teams are going to fork them over for rentals. Personally, I'd rather "waste" a first round pick on a 23 year old goalie who has a lot of potential, than add a free agent to be like T. Ruutu.

This summer will be the time when they show they are still serious about building a winner. They've positioned themselves perfectly to open their purse on July 1st when guys like Suter and Parise are avalable, while still being able to afford O'Reilly, Duchene, Johnson and whoever else they want to keep. If the Avs miss the playoffs this season, and don't address the needs this summer, then I agree there is something wrong. For the time being though, they have tried addressing all the issues. We didn't have a number one defenceman, Sherman went out and got a player who is close to being a number one defenceman, and has great potential still. The defensive group was to undersized, so they trade for O'Byrne, and sign Hejda/O'Brien. The goaltending sucked, so the Varly trade happened, and Giguere was signed.

I think the Avs are kind of maxed out for assets to acquire new players. They've used up what they felt they won't need, and now were stuck with this team until July 1st. I think Sherman has done his job putting together a core of players. Now Kroenke needs to open his wallet this summer and fill some other holes.
My issue is with the entire machine. Both Kroenke's, both Lacroixs, Sherman, and Sacco. The entire thing is structured so they don't have to answer any tough questions about their mistakes, or be held responsible. The upper level guys pick their puppets based on the idea that they'll do things a certain way (even if they are allowed to make their own decisions) and when they screw up, they're just shuffled off for the next nepotist puppet.

If they sign guys like Parise or Suter, or even some lower level guys that can help the team, that would be great. In my mind though it doesn't excuse for their decisions prior to that. Those prior decisions or lack thereof were not made with the help of a crystal ball telling them they'd get Parise and Suter.

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02-03-2012, 04:29 PM
  #270
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I really don't think that Kroenke is the problem here. He isn't cheap, the team is rebuilding. Next year with the new CBA in place, if we are still in the basement for salary, then I will complain. They didn't want to sign a couple of UFA's and get stuck like they did last CBA. Management has said that.

I realize that Kroenke doesn't care about hockey at all, but he is a billionaire. There are lots of teams that would love to have this steady of an ownership group.

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02-03-2012, 04:49 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
I really don't think that Kroenke is the problem here. He isn't cheap, the team is rebuilding. Next year with the new CBA in place, if we are still in the basement for salary, then I will complain. They didn't want to sign a couple of UFA's and get stuck like they did last CBA. Management has said that.

I realize that Kroenke doesn't care about hockey at all, but he is a billionaire. There are lots of teams that would love to have this steady of an ownership group.
I agree I don't think Kroenke is the "problem" but his lack of knowledge and attention allows the problem to persist. Overpaying for big money UFA's isn't the issue. There are many facets that go into a successful team. Decisions on which coach's to hire and when to hire them. Decisions on which trades to make to help your team, and when to make them.

The patience thing is an over used excuse, and there are more than two choices to be made other than do nothing and spend nothing, or overspend on UFA's. Sure they need to be patient with their youngsters to grow, but they've grown, and their two or three younger guys shouldn't be asked to do it all themselves. They have no 1st round pick, and no real offensive forwards in the pipeline other than a concussed Hishon that has never played a pro game. This team needed help this season, and there's no benefit to struggling through another losing season other than saving $.

I don't really buy the CBA thing either. There's almost no way the CBA and the cap structure will be much different than it is now. It'll probably be different but not much, and the Avs will be guaranteed to be in a better position than most every other team. It's not like there's no reasonable deals to be made either.

The patience is for Kroenke to save money after the economic hit he took, and for him to buy other new franchises as his toys. Not for the team to be better. It will be better when they hire a good coach, spend some money to bring in the right players to build around their core, and not get their ass handed to them value wise in every trade they make.

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02-03-2012, 05:01 PM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I agree I don't think Kroenke is the "problem" but his lack of knowledge and attention allows the problem to persist. Overpaying for big money UFA's isn't the issue. There are many facets that go into a successful team. Decisions on which coach's to hire and when to hire them. Decisions on which trades to make to help your team, and when to make them.

The patience thing is an over used excuse, and there are more than two choices to be made other than do nothing and spend nothing, or overspend on UFA's. Sure they need to be patient with their youngsters to grow, but they've grown, and their two or three younger guys shouldn't be asked to do it all themselves. They have no 1st round pick, and no real offensive forwards in the pipeline other than a concussed Hishon that has never played a pro game. This team needed help this season, and there's no benefit to struggling through another losing season other than saving $.

I don't really buy the CBA thing either. There's almost no way the CBA and the cap structure will be much different than it is now. It'll probably be different but not much, and the Avs will be guaranteed to be in a better position than most every other team. It's not like there's no reasonable deals to be made either.

The patience is for Kroenke to save money after the economic hit he took, and for him to buy other new franchises as his toys. Not for the team to be better. It will be better when they hire a good coach, spend some money to bring in the right players to build around their core, and not get their ass handed to them value wise in every trade they make.
The only decision that Kroenke makes that affects the Avs is who the President is. He has nothing to do with the hockey club. Lacroix and the management team make 100% of the decisions related to hockey. I don't think Kroenke will ever fire Lacroix. So we are stuck with him until he steps down which I don't expect any time soon.

If we had an owner that cared more, and was more hands on, we would also have an owner that wants to put his stamp on the team. That is how NJ got into the Kovalchuk mess, and Chicago got into the Campbell quagmire.

There are good and bad points to each, but it won't be changing anytime soon. So there is no point in wishing.

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02-03-2012, 05:16 PM
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
I really don't think that Kroenke is the problem here. He isn't cheap, the team is rebuilding. Next year with the new CBA in place, if we are still in the basement for salary, then I will complain. They didn't want to sign a couple of UFA's and get stuck like they did last CBA. Management has said that.

I realize that Kroenke doesn't care about hockey at all, but he is a billionaire. There are lots of teams that would love to have this steady of an ownership group.
I don't either but having a cheap owner would really suck. I guess we'll find out this summer for sure but I don't think he would just limit the Avs spending and keep spending on the other teams. Especially since there is a cap in place so he can't spend over $60M anyways.

If he isn't already, then pretty soon he's going to be the most powerful owner in professional sports. He already owns the Avalanche, Nuggets, Rams, Arsenal, Rapids, Mammoth, Pepsi Center, and the Altitude Network.

He's also involved in the bidding for the Dodgers and apparently he's the favourite to become the new owner. The winning bid is expected to be between $1.5B-$2B. There's some specualation that MLB will step in and say no to Kroenke because he owns teams in other cities/leagues but as of right now they haven't said anything about that.

I really hope they start spending this summer so all the talk about him being cheap and not caring about the Avs can stop. I see people say that on here and my friends say it to me all the time. I would love to respond with, "We have the best owner in professional sports and he just signed Parise and Suter so **** off".

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02-03-2012, 05:28 PM
  #274
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Originally Posted by bohlmeister View Post
The only decision that Kroenke makes that affects the Avs is who the President is. He has nothing to do with the hockey club. Lacroix and the management team make 100% of the decisions related to hockey. I don't think Kroenke will ever fire Lacroix. So we are stuck with him until he steps down which I don't expect any time soon.

If we had an owner that cared more, and was more hands on, we would also have an owner that wants to put his stamp on the team. That is how NJ got into the Kovalchuk mess, and Chicago got into the Campbell quagmire.

There are good and bad points to each, but it won't be changing anytime soon. So there is no point in wishing.
I agree, and that's why I think the whole management problem will persist.

I don't agree though that there are only two choices. Similar to the idea that they either overspend on UFA's or spend and do nothing. There are not simply two different types of owners. Guys that could care less and guys that try to play GM. Otherwise you wouldn't have any successful franchises.

Having an owner that knows when the last two GM choices have been vastly under qualified accountants, and that 3 out of the last 4 coach's (Granato twice) were vastly under qualified head coaches is what fans should hope for and deserve.

If the owner is aware and cares about what's going on, they can correct problems with management. If they have that kind of owner it's not as easy for the President to continue this nepotistic charade of incompetence, where all they have to do is say "oh we don't talk to the media, sorry" and Boss Kroenke has no idea what's going on because he doesn't know the difference.

But like I said, the owner, like the GM, and the coach, and the players, are just pieces to the puzzle which is at issue.

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02-19-2012, 02:11 PM
  #275
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Sherman gets a big fat "F" if he fails to move Hunwick at the deadline. Even with injuries, there is no excuse for not dealing a defenseman who clearly doesn't factor into your future plans. Moreover, he needs to have at least a good idea just which of his impending UFA forwards (Jones, McClement, Winnik) he wants to keep. I imagine Calgary will be lying in wait to snatch any of them up should they become available in July.

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