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Greg Sherman & Co - Record as Colorado Avalanche GM

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Old
11-29-2011, 05:14 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by hek View Post
I know it's blasphemous, but I generally think Sherman has done a solid job. However, I don't understand why Sacco has gotten the benefit of a copious amount of doubts.
Why is it "blasphemous?" I get the general idea that I'm the one in the minority here, which is fine. I don't mind being the overly-vocal minority.

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11-29-2011, 05:30 PM
  #177
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The only problem with CGF's line combinations to me is that both Mueller and Hishon have concussion issues. There is no way to know if Mueller will be able to come back to form and who knows what is going on with Hishon (no, seriously, I have no idea what he has been up to). The top line should have two "new guys" who are bonafide top-6 wingers.

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11-29-2011, 05:32 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Why is it "blasphemous?"
There's a thread about firing Sherman.

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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I get the general idea that I'm the one in the minority here, which is fine. I don't mind being the overly-vocal minority.
I think your criticisms are valid.

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11-29-2011, 05:36 PM
  #179
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I think you're criticisms are valid.
"your"

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11-29-2011, 05:42 PM
  #180
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There's a thread about firing Sherman.



I think your criticisms are valid.
Well there was, but it got merged with the Sacco Sacking thread. I still think most Avs fans overall think Sherm's done a good job under the circumstances, and I can respect that. I just disagree.

And thank you.

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11-29-2011, 05:48 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by foppagirl21 View Post
The only problem with CGF's line combinations to me is that both Mueller and Hishon have concussion issues. There is no way to know if Mueller will be able to come back to form and who knows what is going on with Hishon (no, seriously, I have no idea what he has been up to). The top line should have two "new guys" who are bonafide top-6 wingers.
Maybe I am too optimistic that one of the two will get fully healthy over the next two years, but even if that does mean 2 top 6 wingers am I naive to think Sherman, who's made a lot of moves to fill our other holes, won't utilize that wealth of young defensive talent to fill those holes? With all of the cap space we have I think it's reasonable to think we'll fill one of these holes in FA, add a trade in to fill the other and then we're stuck waiting for our guys to grow together and one of Hishon/Mueller to get healthy.

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11-29-2011, 06:17 PM
  #182
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good lord. No right-minded GM would bank on two concussion-victims as the solution to his scoring issues. And believe me, we have scoring issues. And NO, sherman should not utilize our wealth of defensive prospects to fill our holes.... Are you kidding me? Our defence already has a bunch of holes.:shake head


A couple seasons ago we had the most potent young offense in the league. We had a 40 win goaltender. We had our first round pick.

I would argue that Sherman has created more holes than he's filled.

A stud blue liner is nice, in theory, but let's be real here, Johnson is NOT a stud blue liner. Honestly, shattenkirk had more leadership ability than him, and statistically he's having a better season.

I've noticed a few posts claiming that all you pro-shermanites are the minority, but i disagree. There's a huge group of you guys out there, for example on this page, my post is the first to be anti-sherman. However, in the debate of Sherman is good vs Sherman is bad i would say that your side is in the minority because the arguments for his GM abilities are few and far between, not to mention weak.

The assertion "Oh man, this guy is a good GM, just imagine if Mueller and Hishon didn't have concussions, then this team would be really good" is ludicrous and pathetic.

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11-29-2011, 06:19 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
EJ and Varly are 23, guys at 23 are still hugely inconsistent. Look at any other young stud Dman asked to carry the #1 role, see Myers, Doughty, etc. or any other young goaler asked to carry the load, again see guys like Price and Fleury. It's what happens with young players. They're already paying off because we have them in the organization for the future. Kinda like how it's ok that Dutchy struggled really badly at the start of the year or how Radar has had massive cold streaks between his early season and late season hot streaks in every year of his career so far.

Kobascrew has been perfectly fine when he gets to play bottom 6 like he deserves. Just look at the last few games where Porter-McClement-Kobascrew have been our best line.

Hejda's been a disappointment but I wouldn't be shocked to see his play turn around completely once he's got a coach who doesn't befuddle him so much. Hejda's problem is that he's playing completely outside of himself, trying to do things that he's just never been really good at. That's not exactly incoherent with the gripe of players having no clue what Sacco expects from them.

Lindstrom was a bust, but he was a worst case scenario depth signing, so missing there isn't really even close to a fireable offense.

I'm all aboard the replace Sacco now train, but Sherman's done a really good job and actually has this team in a position where the pieces are in place to develop into a SC caliber team a couple years down the line. Add a top line winger, top 4 dman, quality coach and a couple years and we can contend with any team in the league.

Mueller/Hishon-Dutchy-new guy
Lando-Staz-Jones
Galiardi-Radar-Winnik
Porter-Malone-who cares

Siemens/New guy - EJ
Quincey - Elliott
Gaunce/Wilson/O'Brien - Barrie

Varly
Pickard
I'm sorry but if anything, this viewpoint is stretching the truth, not the other side. A lot of the reasons this team is close to being where it should be has to do with draft picks, and amateaur scouting. That's why they have Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, Hishon, Elliott, Barrie, and Siemens. Other parts like Staz, Jones, and Hejduk were not his doing either.


His moves just don't look to have really paid the dividends expected:

The financially motivated trade of Smyth brought back a good but injury prone 2nd pairing D in Quincey, but Smyth is still scoring and leading with 12 goals and 24 points in 24 games, and only a year left on his current deal.

Who knows what happened with Anderson, but he traded him straight up for a goalie with much lower value, who then sucked, and then he let him go to find him leading all goaltenders this year with a 1.31 GAA and a .951%.

EJ's trade is basically a wash at this point, but the point is that while EJ is still young, it was expected that he would take that next step in his developement and grab the reins of this team with his play. He hasn't done that yet and while looking solid, he is not any closer to a true number one D than he was with St. Louis.

Overpaid by a lot for Varly, who while he also is still too young to fully evaluate the trade, hasn't yet taken the reins as the Avs true number one goalie that can steal games, and make consistent big saves when needed, as hoped.

Signed Jan Hejda to a four year deal, as a top pairing partner to EJ. Looked good at first, but has quickly regressed to a very mistake prone defenseman in any role.


Even some of his lesser moves don't look great in hindsight:

He let a still capable, veteran presence, heart and soul Lappy walk to sign a reasonable $1.166 M deal.

He brought back Aranason for two years for some inexplicable reason.

He let McCormick go and succeed as a fan favorite 4th liner that can chip in points in Buffalo.

Traded a prospect with decent value in Cohen for another undersized offensive defenseman the Avs didn't need, who turned out to be their worst defenseman.

Let another gritty veteran, heart and soul and capable Matt Hendricks walk to sign a reasonable $825k.

Let Flash go for unknown reasons, and put up 10 goals and 23 points in 23 games with Florida.

Couldn't get more than a 2nd rounder for Liles coming off a 46 point season, and now he's on pace for his best season ever with 54 points.

Signed Lindstrom as a depth scoring forward and back up plan to the departed Flash and concussed Mueller, but he has shown no chemsitry with the team, or any form of consistent presence of any form. He has now been waived.

Signed Kobasew as a depth scoring forward, who like Lindstrom has shown no chemistry with the team, and no consistent presence on the ice, whether offensively or physically.


Positives:

Daniel Winnik has become a solid 3rd line winger for a 4th rounder.

Ryan O'Byrne has become a dependable, and physical 3rd pairing D-man for a decent prospect who's role we had filled.

SOB was a good low risk UFA signing and has exceeded expecations as a solid second pairing D with a mean streak and unexpected leadership.


And that's not even taking into account moves which he may or may not have control over, like hiring Sacco in the first place over a wealth of better candidates, and not bringing in a full time goalie coach to help with a position they've been trying to fill for 10 years.

He hasn't quite been Mike Milburry, but you can't say with a straight face that he's done a "solid job." He quite plainly is not getting good results, and the only real big positives are questions marks, and will be good trades if EJ and Varly meet their extremely high expectations.

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11-29-2011, 06:26 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Even some of his lesser moves don't look great in hindsight:

He let a still capable, veteran presence, heart and soul Lappy walk to sign a reasonable $1.166 M deal.

He brought back Aranason for two years for some inexplicable reason.

He let McCormick go and succeed as a fan favorite 4th liner that can chip in points in Buffalo.
Pretty sure these were all from the FG era.

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11-29-2011, 06:36 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by NothingLikeAnEJ View Post
Pretty sure these were all from the FG era.
No they weren't, although I misread the Arnason one. He signed that two year deal with the Rangers. They were all during Sherman's first off season. Check the first post.

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11-29-2011, 06:54 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I'm sorry but if anything, this viewpoint is stretching the truth, not the other side. A lot of the reasons this team is close to being where it should be has to do with draft picks, and amateaur scouting. That's why they have Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, Hishon, Elliott, Barrie, and Siemens. Other parts like Staz, Jones, and Hejduk were not his doing either.


His moves just don't look to have really paid the dividends expected:

The financially motivated trade of Smyth brought back a good but injury prone 2nd pairing D in Quincey, but Smyth is still scoring and leading with 12 goals and 24 points in 24 games, and only a year left on his current deal.

Who knows what happened with Anderson, but he traded him straight up for a goalie with much lower value, who then sucked, and then he let him go to find him leading all goaltenders this year with a 1.31 GAA and a .951%.

EJ's trade is basically a wash at this point, but the point is that while EJ is still young, it was expected that he would take that next step in his developement and grab the reins of this team with his play. He hasn't done that yet and while looking solid, he is not any closer to a true number one D than he was with St. Louis.

Overpaid by a lot for Varly, who while he also is still too young to fully evaluate the trade, hasn't yet taken the reins as the Avs true number one goalie that can steal games, and make consistent big saves when needed, as hoped.

Signed Jan Hejda to a four year deal, as a top pairing partner to EJ. Looked good at first, but has quickly regressed to a very mistake prone defenseman in any role.


Even some of his lesser moves don't look great in hindsight:

He let a still capable, veteran presence, heart and soul Lappy walk to sign a reasonable $1.166 M deal.

He brought back Aranason for two years for some inexplicable reason.

He let McCormick go and succeed as a fan favorite 4th liner that can chip in points in Buffalo.

Traded a prospect with decent value in Cohen for another undersized offensive defenseman the Avs didn't need, who turned out to be their worst defenseman.

Let another gritty veteran, heart and soul and capable Matt Hendricks walk to sign a reasonable $825k.

Let Flash go for unknown reasons, and put up 10 goals and 23 points in 23 games with Florida.

Couldn't get more than a 2nd rounder for Liles coming off a 46 point season, and now he's on pace for his best season ever with 54 points.

Signed Lindstrom as a depth scoring forward and back up plan to the departed Flash and concussed Mueller, but he has shown no chemsitry with the team, or any form of consistent presence of any form. He has now been waived.

Signed Kobasew as a depth scoring forward, who like Lindstrom has shown no chemistry with the team, and no consistent presence on the ice, whether offensively or physically.


Positives:

Daniel Winnik has become a solid 3rd line winger for a 4th rounder.

Ryan O'Byrne has become a dependable, and physical 3rd pairing D-man for a decent prospect who's role we had filled.

SOB was a good low risk UFA signing and has exceeded expecations as a solid second pairing D with a mean streak and unexpected leadership.


And that's not even taking into account moves which he may or may not have control over, like hiring Sacco in the first place over a wealth of better candidates, and not bringing in a full time goalie coach to help with a position they've been trying to fill for 10 years.

He hasn't quite been Mike Milburry, but you can't say with a straight face that he's done a "solid job." He quite plainly is not getting good results, and the only real big positives are questions marks, and will be good trades if EJ and Varly meet their extremely high expectations.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
VERY ACCURATE ANALYSIS OF SHERMAN'S RECORD.
Can this be made the OP?
I'm so glad you made this post. it breaks it down so much nicer than I ever could have. However, I am going to try and add to your argument...

I don't consider the EJ trade a wash, Shattenkirk is better and has more leadership ability. As for Stewart, I'd like to see Sherman try to fill the hole of 30+ goal scoring power forward under 25.

Hendricks had 25 points last season and was a solid, 4th line contributor to a team that finished at the top of the league. making his loss even more poignant.

I'd also like to say that trading away home-grown talent is not a road to success in today's NHL. It makes the losses of JML, Cohen, Shatty, Stewart and others even more painful. They were drafted, developed and brought up by this organization, then traded for hogwash. It actually shames me to think of the errors my beloved franchise had made under the control of the tyrant Sherman. OVERDRAMATIC i know, just having some fun.

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Old
11-30-2011, 01:08 AM
  #187
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http://watch.tsn.ca/clip576992#clip576992

The pundits don't speak too highly of the Avs here. I agree with Dreger when he says there's no clear direction for this franchise right now.

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11-30-2011, 01:28 AM
  #188
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Do I really see people complaining about trading away fourth liners, an offensive defenseman prospect who has exactly two goals in 84 AHL games, and Brian F'in Elliott of all people?

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11-30-2011, 02:16 AM
  #189
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Do I really see people complaining about trading away fourth liners, an offensive defenseman prospect who has exactly two goals in 84 AHL games, and Brian F'in Elliott of all people?
No you don't. Every GM has let go of a few players that turned out to be good players, especially 4th liners. It's simply a list to show the vast majority of his moves have not worked out as hoped. The largest ones being EJ and Varly still need time but the point was that his moves and tenure to date can not be described as successful.

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11-30-2011, 02:19 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I'm sorry but if anything, this viewpoint is stretching the truth, not the other side. A lot of the reasons this team is close to being where it should be has to do with draft picks, and amateaur scouting. That's why they have Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, Hishon, Elliott, Barrie, and Siemens. Other parts like Staz, Jones, and Hejduk were not his doing either.


His moves just don't look to have really paid the dividends expected:

The financially motivated trade of Smyth brought back a good but injury prone 2nd pairing D in Quincey, but Smyth is still scoring and leading with 12 goals and 24 points in 24 games, and only a year left on his current deal.

Who knows what happened with Anderson, but he traded him straight up for a goalie with much lower value, who then sucked, and then he let him go to find him leading all goaltenders this year with a 1.31 GAA and a .951%.

EJ's trade is basically a wash at this point, but the point is that while EJ is still young, it was expected that he would take that next step in his developement and grab the reins of this team with his play. He hasn't done that yet and while looking solid, he is not any closer to a true number one D than he was with St. Louis.

Overpaid by a lot for Varly, who while he also is still too young to fully evaluate the trade, hasn't yet taken the reins as the Avs true number one goalie that can steal games, and make consistent big saves when needed, as hoped.

Signed Jan Hejda to a four year deal, as a top pairing partner to EJ. Looked good at first, but has quickly regressed to a very mistake prone defenseman in any role.


Even some of his lesser moves don't look great in hindsight:

He let a still capable, veteran presence, heart and soul Lappy walk to sign a reasonable $1.166 M deal.

He brought back Aranason for two years for some inexplicable reason.

He let McCormick go and succeed as a fan favorite 4th liner that can chip in points in Buffalo.

Traded a prospect with decent value in Cohen for another undersized offensive defenseman the Avs didn't need, who turned out to be their worst defenseman.

Let another gritty veteran, heart and soul and capable Matt Hendricks walk to sign a reasonable $825k.

Let Flash go for unknown reasons, and put up 10 goals and 23 points in 23 games with Florida.

Couldn't get more than a 2nd rounder for Liles coming off a 46 point season, and now he's on pace for his best season ever with 54 points.

Signed Lindstrom as a depth scoring forward and back up plan to the departed Flash and concussed Mueller, but he has shown no chemsitry with the team, or any form of consistent presence of any form. He has now been waived.

Signed Kobasew as a depth scoring forward, who like Lindstrom has shown no chemistry with the team, and no consistent presence on the ice, whether offensively or physically.


Positives:

Daniel Winnik has become a solid 3rd line winger for a 4th rounder.

Ryan O'Byrne has become a dependable, and physical 3rd pairing D-man for a decent prospect who's role we had filled.

SOB was a good low risk UFA signing and has exceeded expecations as a solid second pairing D with a mean streak and unexpected leadership.


And that's not even taking into account moves which he may or may not have control over, like hiring Sacco in the first place over a wealth of better candidates, and not bringing in a full time goalie coach to help with a position they've been trying to fill for 10 years.

He hasn't quite been Mike Milburry, but you can't say with a straight face that he's done a "solid job." He quite plainly is not getting good results, and the only real big positives are questions marks, and will be good trades if EJ and Varly meet their extremely high expectations.
Laid it all out and told it like it is. Excellent post.

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11-30-2011, 02:22 AM
  #191
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Do I really see people complaining about trading away fourth liners, an offensive defenseman prospect who has exactly two goals in 84 AHL games, and Brian F'in Elliott of all people?
Who's the offensive defensive prospect? Sorry, I'm confused.

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11-30-2011, 02:31 AM
  #192
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Who's the offensive defensive prospect? Sorry, I'm confused.
I think he means Cohen, who like the other lesser moves on their own was not the point. The point was his moves as a whole are either backfires or yet to pan out. The teams bright spots and relative closeness to being rebuilt successfully rely almost solely on an excellent amateur scouting staff which he has very little if any influence on.

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11-30-2011, 02:38 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I think he means Cohen, who like the other lesser moves on their own was not the point. The point was his moves as a whole are either backfires or yet to pan out. The teams bright spots and relative closeness to being rebuilt successfully rely almost solely on an excellent amateur scouting staff which he has very little if any influence on.
That's what I thought, since I knew he couldn't mean Shatty.

The Cohen/Hunwick trade is definitely a strike against Sherman since the deal clearly made the team WORSE. Doesn't matter that he gave up what looks to be a marginal prospect.

The one trade that hasn't been mentioned of late (at least in this thread) is the Bournival/O'Byrne deal, and I think it was a good trade, even if Bournival actually becomes a productive player.

Not EVERYTHING Sherman has done has failed, but as others have said, a majority of his deals right this very moment are looking very bad.

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11-30-2011, 03:14 AM
  #194
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That's what I thought, since I knew he couldn't mean Shatty.

The Cohen/Hunwick trade is definitely a strike against Sherman since the deal clearly made the team WORSE. Doesn't matter that he gave up what looks to be a marginal prospect.

The one trade that hasn't been mentioned of late (at least in this thread) is the Bournival/O'Byrne deal, and I think it was a good trade, even if Bournival actually becomes a productive player.

Not EVERYTHING Sherman has done has failed, but as others have said, a majority of his deals right this very moment are looking very bad.
Definitely, I'm a fan of the O'Byrnre move, and listed it as a positive one in my post. When this team makes a run in the playoffs I think he will play a big part in it if he's still here. That is an example of getting good value and a player they needed for a prospect. The Hunwick trade trade, and the vast majority of other moves can not be described as such.

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11-30-2011, 07:54 AM
  #195
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A vast majority of the inexperienced GMs in the league tend to either lose trades or not make trades. We should feel fortunate that we've not been on the backend of a massive loss yet.

Sherman isn't terrible, but the longer he keeps Sacco the more he risks his own neck. Because Sherman (provided he replaces Sacco properly) should be given 1-2 years to back up his talk about this coming CBA. Whether we agree or not, he has been trying to improve the team.

I have to wonder if a Sherman + Sakic combo this offseason, after canning Sacco and having a mediocre run to try to reach the playoffs (9th/10th finish) can bring in the rest of the talent we need to hit the ground running next year.

If we replace Sherman, you can rest assured we will be entering another rebuild.

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11-30-2011, 10:21 AM
  #196
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A vast majority of the inexperienced GMs in the league tend to either lose trades or not make trades. We should feel fortunate that we've not been on the backend of a massive loss yet.

Sherman isn't terrible, but the longer he keeps Sacco the more he risks his own neck. Because Sherman (provided he replaces Sacco properly) should be given 1-2 years to back up his talk about this coming CBA. Whether we agree or not, he has been trying to improve the team.

I have to wonder if a Sherman + Sakic combo this offseason, after canning Sacco and having a mediocre run to try to reach the playoffs (9th/10th finish) can bring in the rest of the talent we need to hit the ground running next year.

If we replace Sherman, you can rest assured we will be entering another rebuild.
Sherman can can gain quite a bit of respect if he resolves the coaching situation sooner rather than later. By letting Sacco continue on, he's sending a message to the fans "Hey, losing is OK with us".

I agree he should have 1-2 years after the CBA to back up his talk of the plans after the agreement. But if he just stands pat for the rest of the season and does nothing to address this "slump"... he deserves what could be coming to him.

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11-30-2011, 11:01 AM
  #197
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God damn do we have some impatient fans. The Sakic/Foppa/Roy era really messed some of you guys's expectations up, huh?

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11-30-2011, 11:09 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I'm sorry but if anything, this viewpoint is stretching the truth, not the other side. A lot of the reasons this team is close to being where it should be has to do with draft picks, and amateaur scouting. That's why they have Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, Hishon, Elliott, Barrie, and Siemens. Other parts like Staz, Jones, and Hejduk were not his doing either.


His moves just don't look to have really paid the dividends expected:

The financially motivated trade of Smyth brought back a good but injury prone 2nd pairing D in Quincey, but Smyth is still scoring and leading with 12 goals and 24 points in 24 games, and only a year left on his current deal.
Yet you leave out his play the prior two seasons. His last two years with LA he looked to be on the decline and his production was no where near his cap hit. Smyth has had a resurgence this year certainly and would no doubt help the Avs right now. But Smyth does play a physical game, is aging and has a pretty large cap hit. As you mentioned it was ultimately a cap dump, but Sherman still pulled a solid, though sometimes inconsistent, top four defenseman. I don't know what more you really can expect out of a cap dump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Who knows what happened with Anderson, but he traded him straight up for a goalie with much lower value, who then sucked, and then he let him go to find him leading all goaltenders this year with a 1.31 GAA and a .951%.
What value did Anderson have at the time of the trade? When Anderson was traded he had a save percentage of .897% and had only been a starting goaltender in the league for a season and a half. I don't see much value there. And what on earth up to this point has Elliot ever done that warranted bringing him back?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
EJ's trade is basically a wash at this point, but the point is that while EJ is still young, it was expected that he would take that next step in his developement and grab the reins of this team with his play. He hasn't done that yet and while looking solid, he is not any closer to a true number one D than he was with St. Louis.
One out of two trades that Sherman will ultimately be judged on. If EJ doesn't pan out then Sherman will look very bad. And rightfully so, he has a lot riding on this one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Overpaid by a lot for Varly, who while he also is still too young to fully evaluate the trade, hasn't yet taken the reins as the Avs true number one goalie that can steal games, and make consistent big saves when needed, as hoped.
The second out of two trades that Sherman will ultimately be judged on. See the EJ trade above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Signed Jan Hejda to a four year deal, as a top pairing partner to EJ. Looked good at first, but has quickly regressed to a very mistake prone defenseman in any role.
Hasn't made anymore mistakes this year than Wilson or EJ. Plus they had a need for a defenseman and had to get to the cap floor one way or another. Not much else out there he could have grabbed at the cap hit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Even some of his lesser moves don't look great in hindsight:

He let a still capable, veteran presence, heart and soul Lappy walk to sign a reasonable $1.166 M deal.

He brought back Aranason for two years for some inexplicable reason.

He let McCormick go and succeed as a fan favorite 4th liner that can chip in points in Buffalo.

Traded a prospect with decent value in Cohen for another undersized offensive defenseman the Avs didn't need, who turned out to be their worst defenseman.

Let another gritty veteran, heart and soul and capable Matt Hendricks walk to sign a reasonable $825k.
You're upset about a bunch of dime a dozen fourth line scrubs and marginal prospects? Ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Let Flash go for unknown reasons, and put up 10 goals and 23 points in 23 games with Florida.
Flash would be a huge help to this team no doubt. However, it appears the Avs are working on a tight budget and Flash's history of blood clots and embolism problem made him expendable. Just an ugly fact of how this team is being run with a shoe string.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Couldn't get more than a 2nd rounder for Liles coming off a 46 point season, and now he's on pace for his best season ever with 54 points.
I liked Liles and again I'm sure he would help the transition game out. But he's average at best defensively on his best days. And while he's on pace for 54 points he won't keep it up. He never has. He always comes out of the gate hot and then cools off the rest of the season. Through this point in the season the past three or four years he's been on pace to put up career numbers and then peters out. What I also find funny is that in prior years fans were absolutely incensed at this teams inability to clear the zone with any kind of authority or regularity. Liles was a part of that problem. Now that Sherman has brought in a defense that has improved significantly in that aspect of play fans are now complaining about not having enough PMDs. Damned if you do, damned if you don't it seems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Signed Lindstrom as a depth scoring forward and back up plan to the departed Flash and concussed Mueller, but he has shown no chemsitry with the team, or any form of consistent presence of any form. He has now been waived.
Yep, Lindstrom was largely invisible. Invested nothing more than a small contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Signed Kobasew as a depth scoring forward, who like Lindstrom has shown no chemistry with the team, and no consistent presence on the ice, whether offensively or physically.
He's looked fine when he's been give bottom six minutes. I have no complaints when he isn't given a role above his abilities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Positives:

Daniel Winnik has become a solid 3rd line winger for a 4th rounder.

Ryan O'Byrne has become a dependable, and physical 3rd pairing D-man for a decent prospect who's role we had filled.

SOB was a good low risk UFA signing and has exceeded expecations as a solid second pairing D with a mean streak and unexpected leadership.


And that's not even taking into account moves which he may or may not have control over, like hiring Sacco in the first place over a wealth of better candidates, and not bringing in a full time goalie coach to help with a position they've been trying to fill for 10 years.

He hasn't quite been Mike Milburry, but you can't say with a straight face that he's done a "solid job." He quite plainly is not getting good results, and the only real big positives are questions marks, and will be good trades if EJ and Varly meet their extremely high expectations.
The results aren't there no question. But Sherman has completely overhauled the roster since he has taken the reins. He's brought in a lot of guys with talent and youth. He's set the team up for the future with guys that could fill major holes the Avs have had for quite some time. Now, the question is do these young, talented players ultimately fulfill their potential and be the contributors the Avs need. If they don't then certainly Sherman has failed. No question. If they do fulfill their potential than Sherman certainly has done a solid job setting the team up for long-term success. He's taken significant risks and staked a lot on EJ and Varly. Only time will tell.

The one area that I don't understand at all is the pass he's given to Sacco. He should have been gone after last season. He's had a losing record in the AHL and the NHL. I'm totally puzzled by his continued employment.

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11-30-2011, 12:27 PM
  #199
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God damn do we have some impatient fans. The Sakic/Foppa/Roy era really messed some of you guys's expectations up, huh?
You characterize it as impatience, we characterize it as informed opinions. We're okay with a rebuild, but what we're not okay with is incompetence. Feel free to disagree.

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11-30-2011, 12:43 PM
  #200
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EJ and Varly were not added to lead us to a championship this season. They were brought in to help lead us to a championship in a couple of years. Both have the raw talent to do so, both have shown the flashes of great play you want young players to show. Now both still need to grow a lot, like the rest of our young core, and in this keeping Sacco around is a mistake, although that's a mistake that I'm not sure Sherman alone is responsible for. But that's the only significant mistake on Sherman's resume.

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