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Antropov on the open market

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Old
06-04-2009, 10:34 PM
  #26
ELab2
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somewhere between 3.75 and 4.5 depending on where the cap is and what they estimate for next year. Probably 4.25, that seems to be standard for 1st/2nd line tweeners on the wing.

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06-04-2009, 10:35 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I don't think he's worth a penny over 3M, but that's just me.
and your wrong

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Old
06-04-2009, 10:45 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
i just don't like knuble. he screams bad idea to me
Not a fan of players who score 20+ goals 6 years in a row?

He is slow but he's also big and gritty. Our need is for someone to play with Kozlov-White. He doesn't need to keep up with Kovalchuk seeing as how Little needs to be playing on Kovy's line.

Kovalchuk-Peverley-Little
Kozlov-White-Knuble

He could be a great stop gap till Kane is ready to jump into the NHL.

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06-04-2009, 10:59 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by The Falconer View Post
No's he already half way through his prime.

If you look at historical stats, most NHL players have their best years between the ages of 25-30. Players peak earlier than you might think.
NO man, I don't think you understand. This is HF...players enter into their primes between 28 and 32, are in the middle of their prime 32-35, and are at the end of their prime 35-38. After 38, you must say things like "just hang up your skates" or "don't do it (insert player's name), another year will bring down your legacy", or something else telling the player to retire as if you are personally affected by the player's decision and have the right to tell him what to do.

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06-04-2009, 11:18 PM
  #30
ecemleafs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blankspace6 View Post
Not a fan of players who score 20+ goals 6 years in a row?

He is slow but he's also big and gritty. Our need is for someone to play with Kozlov-White. He doesn't need to keep up with Kovalchuk seeing as how Little needs to be playing on Kovy's line.

Kovalchuk-Peverley-Little
Kozlov-White-Knuble

He could be a great stop gap till Kane is ready to jump into the NHL.
he actually isnt that slow. hes huge and he just looks very slow. his long stick actually makes him quicker as well especially when backchecking because hes in position just that little bit quicker

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Old
06-04-2009, 11:30 PM
  #31
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I'm a little suprised... I figured he'd get like, 3mil 'ish.. Not much higher...

What do you guys think a guy like Taylor Pyatt will get? He had a bad season offensively what with his fiance passing away but he can put up 20 goals... He won't get anymore than 1.5mil IMO...

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06-04-2009, 11:59 PM
  #32
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to the rangers nothing more than 3.25-3.5 on a 4-5 year deal, the guy is streaky and while he provides a big body presence that we need, he looks more like aaron voros on some nights. I'd rather give the money to zherdev who is overall a more talented player.

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Old
06-05-2009, 12:20 AM
  #33
CM Lundqvist
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I can't see giving Antropov more than 3.5 million. He's constantly hurt, has never scored 30 goals, and has had one good year. I'd rather bring in a guy like Cheechoo at that price who could possibly revive his career and get similar production if he doesn't hit 30-40 goals.

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Old
06-05-2009, 04:24 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
I can't see giving Antropov more than 3.5 million. He's constantly hurt, has never scored 30 goals, and has had one good year. I'd rather bring in a guy like Cheechoo at that price who could possibly revive his career and get similar production if he doesn't hit 30-40 goals.
wow, what? Antropov has played more games then Cheechoo last season and the season before that. His last TWO seasons were good, not just one. And considering Cheechoo's last 2 seasons he had 29 and 37 points, no I don't think he could "get similar production if he doesn't hit 30-40 goals."

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Old
06-05-2009, 05:58 AM
  #35
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Antro is a good 2nd line winger on a good team. He won't carry a good 2nd line on his own, but he'll definitely be a catalyst and you can reasonably expect a 60-70 point pace out of him. Of course there is a slightly greater injury concern with him; so that problably factors into term.

Realistically, he's looking at about a maximum of $4million on a 3-4 year deal simply because of the impending cap crunch that is expected to happen this offseason. If he was willing to go as short as 1-2 years; then he'd be looking at close to $5million.

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Old
06-05-2009, 09:00 AM
  #36
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I don't know if it will happen with Antropov, but I can see quite a few 1 year contracts being thrown around this year. With the cap possibly dropping in 2010, I think teams will be reluctant to sign long term deals. Teams may have to overpay to get players to sign those 1 year deals though.

If the Rangers can clear some cap room, I wouldn't be averse to giving Antropov 5-6 mil for 1 year. As long as he fits under the cap this year and comes off the books next year, it's all good.

Otherwise, I think anything more than 1 year will be discounted. There are a lot of UFAs this year. I think players will be willing to trade pay for job security.

So If I was Sather, I'd offer him 5-6 for 1 year or 9 mil over 3 years. 4 mil + for multiple years, I want no part of.

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06-05-2009, 09:05 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
I don't know if it will happen with Antropov, but I can see quite a few 1 year contracts being thrown around this year. With the cap possibly dropping in 2010, I think teams will be reluctant to sign long term deals. Teams may have to overpay to get players to sign those 1 year deals though.

If the Rangers can clear some cap room, I wouldn't be averse to giving Antropov 5-6 mil for 1 year. As long as he fits under the cap this year and comes off the books next year, it's all good.

Otherwise, I think anything more than 1 year will be discounted. There are a lot of UFAs this year. I think players will be willing to trade pay for job security.

So If I was Sather, I'd offer him 5-6 for 1 year or 9 mil over 3 years. 4 mil + for multiple years, I want no part of.
would you give him 30 mil over 10 years? frontload the piss out of the deal? i'd certainly consider it.

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Old
06-05-2009, 09:29 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
would you give him 30 mil over 10 years? frontload the piss out of the deal? i'd certainly consider it.
No. I'm really not in favor of such long term deals. I would only do a deal like that for a bonafide superstar, someone you wouldn't mind actually staying around for the entire 10 years. Antropov is more easily replaced and I'd rather keep the flexibility of a shorter term contract. If his production declines, it would be far easier to get rid of him.

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Old
06-05-2009, 10:08 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Antro is a good 2nd line winger on a good team. He won't carry a good 2nd line on his own, but he'll definitely be a catalyst and you can reasonably expect a 60-70 point pace out of him. Of course there is a slightly greater injury concern with him; so that problably factors into term.

Realistically, he's looking at about a maximum of $4million on a 3-4 year deal simply because of the impending cap crunch that is expected to happen this offseason. If he was willing to go as short as 1-2 years; then he'd be looking at close to $5million.
Why do people continually say stuff like this. He's never even topped 60 points in 9 NHL seasons, yet somehow you can expect 60-70 points from him? This line of thinking drives me crazy, because it permeated the trade boards as well. Before this year, Marco Sturm had goal scoring years of 29, 27, and 27...so can we expect a 30-35 goal pace out of him this year? And please spare me the "he's been on pace for these numbers" argument. If you've yet to attain those numbers after essentially 9 NHL seasons, then you can't be classified as such. It's reasonable to think that he might get 60+ points next year, or at some point in his career, but can we please stop categorizing players into groups that they have yet to achieve?

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Old
06-05-2009, 10:21 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhodes 10 View Post
who is a better option that we could realistically sign?
The Sedins'
Sedin - Sedin - Kovalchuck
would be a force, and could single handedly get them into the playoffs

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Old
06-05-2009, 10:23 AM
  #41
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
Why do people continually say stuff like this. He's never even topped 60 points in 9 NHL seasons, yet somehow you can expect 60-70 points from him? This line of thinking drives me crazy, because it permeated the trade boards as well. Before this year, Marco Sturm had goal scoring years of 29, 27, and 27...so can we expect a 30-35 goal pace out of him this year? And please spare me the "he's been on pace for these numbers" argument. If you've yet to attain those numbers after essentially 9 NHL seasons, then you can't be classified as such. It's reasonable to think that he might get 60+ points next year, or at some point in his career, but can we please stop categorizing players into groups that they have yet to achieve?
Key word is pace....

2008-09 - 81 games - 59 points
2007-08 - 72 games - 56 points

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Old
06-05-2009, 10:50 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
i was thinking something like 3 years-12 mil.

anyone else care to chime in?
Sounds about right to me! Probably 4-4.5 per year, maybe a bit more if theres a lot of interest in him. He was great for the Leafs last year and looked pretty good on the Rangers with Avery and Dubinsky in the playoffs.

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Old
06-05-2009, 11:33 AM
  #43
WreckItRask
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfried View Post
Key word is pace....

2008-09 - 81 games - 59 points
2007-08 - 72 games - 56 points
Chuck Kobassew:

2007-2008 - 73 Games - 22 Goals (on pace for 25 goals)
2008-2009 - 68 Games - 21 Goals (on pace for 25 goals)

Guess what, Chuck Kobasew has been "on pace" for 25 goals the past two seasons, but has never hit that number...he's not a 25 goal scorer, he never has been, and he likely never will be. If you are going to use something as concrete as statistics to support a player, then you have to resist the urge to classify them in the hypothetical. Until you actually achieve a milestone (in Antropov's case 30 goals or 60 points) then you can't be defined by that milestone...especially if you've had 9 years to do it. You can only use pace to support a statistical argument (IMO) if that particular player has achieved that milestone previously, and even that is a paper thin assumption in my book. Mike Ryder finished at a 30 goal pace, and probably would have achieved that number for the 3rd time if he didn't break his orbital bone, but he didn't, so now he has only two 30 goal seasons on his resume. He might have hit 30, but he could have just as easily been shut out over those 8 games and still ended up with 27.

I realize that I'm hammering an insignificant point, but it applies to a lot of players on these boards other than Antropov...including Bruins players. Bruins fans keep championing him as a 40 goal scorer, but the fact remains that he's never scored 40 goals yet. Given his age and development, it's beyond likely that he'll hit that number, but until he does he is not a 40 goal scorer. After nine seasons in the NHL, you are what you are, and the negotiating process is going to be based around what he is. He's a decent player, but IMO I'd be skeptical if my team signed him for more than $3.5 million, maybe $4million tops, given his limited two-way game and lack of toughness.

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Old
06-05-2009, 11:41 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
Chuck Kobassew:

2007-2008 - 73 Games - 22 Goals (on pace for 25 goals)
2008-2009 - 68 Games - 21 Goals (on pace for 25 goals)

Guess what, Chuck Kobasew has been "on pace" for 25 goals the past two seasons, but has never hit that number...he's not a 25 goal scorer, he never has been, and he likely never will be. If you are going to use something as concrete as statistics to support a player, then you have to resist the urge to classify them in the hypothetical. Until you actually achieve a milestone (in Antropov's case 30 goals or 60 points) then you can't be defined by that milestone...especially if you've had 9 years to do it. You can only use pace to support a statistical argument (IMO) if that particular player has achieved that milestone previously, and even that is a paper thin assumption in my book. Mike Ryder finished at a 30 goal pace, and probably would have achieved that number for the 3rd time if he didn't break his orbital bone, but he didn't, so now he has only two 30 goal seasons on his resume. He might have hit 30, but he could have just as easily been shut out over those 8 games and still ended up with 27.

I realize that I'm hammering an insignificant point, but it applies to a lot of players on these boards other than Antropov...including Bruins players. Bruins fans keep championing him as a 40 goal scorer, but the fact remains that he's never scored 40 goals yet. Given his age and development, it's beyond likely that he'll hit that number, but until he does he is not a 40 goal scorer. After nine seasons in the NHL, you are what you are, and the negotiating process is going to be based around what he is. He's a decent player, but IMO I'd be skeptical if my team signed him for more than $3.5 million, maybe $4million tops, given his limited two-way game and lack of toughness.
The point is that he'll produce around 3 points for every 4 games he plays; and when he doesn't; somebody else is likely producing in his place..... so you can generalize that as a 60 point pace.

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Old
06-05-2009, 11:55 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by mydnyte View Post
The Sedins'
Sedin - Sedin - Kovalchuck
would be a force, and could single handedly get them into the playoffs
i dont see that as realistic although i would love it

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06-05-2009, 11:58 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely06 View Post
Chuck Kobassew:

2007-2008 - 73 Games - 22 Goals (on pace for 25 goals)
2008-2009 - 68 Games - 21 Goals (on pace for 25 goals)

Guess what, Chuck Kobasew has been "on pace" for 25 goals the past two seasons, but has never hit that number...he's not a 25 goal scorer, he never has been, and he likely never will be. If you are going to use something as concrete as statistics to support a player, then you have to resist the urge to classify them in the hypothetical. Until you actually achieve a milestone (in Antropov's case 30 goals or 60 points) then you can't be defined by that milestone...especially if you've had 9 years to do it. You can only use pace to support a statistical argument (IMO) if that particular player has achieved that milestone previously, and even that is a paper thin assumption in my book. Mike Ryder finished at a 30 goal pace, and probably would have achieved that number for the 3rd time if he didn't break his orbital bone, but he didn't, so now he has only two 30 goal seasons on his resume. He might have hit 30, but he could have just as easily been shut out over those 8 games and still ended up with 27.

I realize that I'm hammering an insignificant point, but it applies to a lot of players on these boards other than Antropov...including Bruins players. Bruins fans keep championing him as a 40 goal scorer, but the fact remains that he's never scored 40 goals yet. Given his age and development, it's beyond likely that he'll hit that number, but until he does he is not a 40 goal scorer. After nine seasons in the NHL, you are what you are, and the negotiating process is going to be based around what he is. He's a decent player, but IMO I'd be skeptical if my team signed him for more than $3.5 million, maybe $4million tops, given his limited two-way game and lack of toughness.
I agree, i don't like how people tend to blow predicted stats out of the water. The only time i feel you should project stats is with young players/prospects, but thay should merely be a prediction. Personally I feel that is it more pratical to always predict with a pessimistic view, that way won't be dissappointed, and your contracts will be more reasonable.

With that said, I am against (in general) high value UFA signings based on potential. I think this year will be the final straw for me: if J-Bo flops (brian campbell the second, but j-bo is way better in his own end), i WIN!!!!!!! Teams recently have been successful by re-signing players (who were consistant) and signing blue-chip UFA's (ie: hossa).

IMO antropov is worth 3.5-4M, and make sure you play him on the Wing (he is better there IMO). He would be a great second liner on any team (Ottawa would be a good fit imo). Anything over 4 is a massive over payment for a 50-60pt player (even 4 is the high end of the scale for me).

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Old
06-05-2009, 12:01 PM
  #47
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3.75 mill for 2-3 years

he isnt worth 4 IMO

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Old
06-05-2009, 12:04 PM
  #48
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i dont see that as realistic although i would love it
they have the cap space, and the excitment that it would genreate could get Kovi to resign, and put some more people in the stands
I'd see it as revy realistic, and a great investment

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Old
06-05-2009, 12:30 PM
  #49
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He'll get a little less than what Malone got. Long-term deal too, considering his age.

5Years~22.5M - 4.5 cap hit.

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Old
06-05-2009, 12:39 PM
  #50
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by jfried View Post
The point is that he'll produce around 3 points for every 4 games he plays; and when he doesn't; somebody else is likely producing in his place..... so you can generalize that as a 60 point pace.
If that team has a player that can produce at a similiar rate - why would they need Antropov? Why not spend the $4+ million elsewhere on the team?

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