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Old
06-05-2009, 03:29 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by fivehole93 View Post
What type of package would the Kings need to put together to get Malkin and not lose Kopitar or Doughty?
don't even start.

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Old
06-05-2009, 03:42 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
Jack Johnson isn't going anywhere, come on guys.. This is just the Kings trying to get some attention.. It's a distraction, because no one really understands what DL and JJ are doing.. While everyone is going nuts on how Johnson's going to Tampa, he'll get re-signed and then out of nowhere, July 1st comes around, the Kings sign Marian Hossa and trade for Valtteri Filppula
If this happens I will have to buy you a large beer at a game next year.

I've wanted to comment on all these Johnson rumors and didn't know if I should creat a new thread or not. If the MODS think this deservers its own thread just work your magic.

IMO Johnson is taking a lot of heat and I am not so sure he doesn't deserve some of it. There are many expectations when you go 3rd overall. It looked like he was set to go to MICH and play. CAR knew this but really seemed to push him to sign. That didn't set well so the Kings traded for him. He had a lot of hype and played the last 5 games of the season and burned a year off that entry level contract, which is BS IMO. His next year was ok, but he was kept in check and was not able to play like he did in college. Then comes the 2nd full season (final year of entry level contract) Game 2, seperates shoulder. He looked good when he came back and had a good WC for team USA.

Then the rumors start flying that he's asking for big money, he's a headcase, his dad talking to the KHL, he's going to TB in a trade for Vinny and he's asking for 5 million a year. Nobody knows what the relationship between JJ and the Kings are or what the Kings want to pay him or what he wants. 5 million a year is way to much. He hasn't proved any thing yet. I'd like to see a 3 year deal for around 9-10 million and live up to the hype. Then when he's done with that contract he can go for the big pay day if he is a top d-man in this league.

When DL traded for JJ the Kings didn't have much in top d-man prospects. Who would have thought we'd get Doughty and he'd be this good this early. Quincey fell in to our laps. Hickey might be ready next year. Teubert and Voynov are a cople of years away. Drewiske was a nice suprise and could be a 5-7 d-man next year. With the depth that DL has on D in the pipeline, I believe Johnson could be had for the right price. He is expendable for the right player coming back to LA.

When everything is said and done, the best defenseman and highest paid will and should be Doughty.

I am not saying trade trade and trade Johnson but I am just pointing out that for the right deal he could be had. Besides, in this cap era you have to think about guys you may have to cut loose so you can sign guys to fill other holes.

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06-05-2009, 04:10 PM
  #53
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I think Johnson's (or Senior's) antics is what has aggravated the fans to turn against him. If he is going to be a constant headcase and demand more than he is worth and considering going to Russia to earn more money, then it is better for the team to cut all association with Johnson and his reps.

One also has to wonder why he'd drop one of the most well-respected agents in hockey in Pat Brisson...
Which begs the question, why did DL trade for him in the first place? We already had a good defensive player in Gleason and I realize Johnson's supposed upside is much higher but did DL not see this coming? I would hope he did his homework. You know how he loves that character stuff. What we've been reading (assuming there is some truth to it) really makes you wonder what DL was thinking. Hopefully this is all nonsense and he gets signed at a reasonable rate. If Jack is moved, you'd have to wonder why another team would want this issue. I also hope DL is able to finnegal a decent return because it is going to look really bad on him for making the trade to get him.

The two things that bug me about him are his refusal to go to Manchester for conditioning last year and his demand to play 5 games in the 2007 season to eat a year off his ELC. I actually think that kind of backfired on him. Had he waited to play in 07/08, he'd be an RFA next season and he'd have a chance to prove he is worth more. There isn't a team in the NHL that would pay him $5M+ right now... I hope so at least.


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Old
06-05-2009, 04:22 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
Which begs the question, why did DL trade for him in the first place? We already had a good defensive player in Gleason and I realize Johnson's supposed upside is much higher but did DL not see this coming? I would hope he did his homework. You know how he loves that character stuff. What we've been reading (assuming there is some truth to it) really makes you wonder what DL was thinking. Hopefully this is all nonsense and he gets signed at a reasonable rate. If Jack is moved, you'd have to wonder why another team would want this issue. I also hope DL is able to finnegal a decent return because it is going to look really bad on him for making the trade to get him.
Would it be second time in less than a year (POS) that you could question him?

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06-05-2009, 04:26 PM
  #55
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No way in H*ell Johnson should get 5+million a year.. thats absurd.. he deserves something like this:

3 years at 3.5 million.. let him live up to his potential before he gets the big boys money.. i would be mad if he gets anything more than that

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06-05-2009, 04:27 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
Which begs the question, why did DL trade for him in the first place? We already had a good defensive player in Gleason and I realize Johnson's supposed upside is much higher but did DL not see this coming? I would hope he did his homework. You know how he loves that character stuff. What we've been reading (assuming there is some truth to it) really makes you wonder what DL was thinking. Hopefully this is all nonsense and he gets signed at a reasonable rate. If Jack is moved, you'd have to wonder why another team would want this issue. I also hope DL is able to finnegal a decent return because it is going to look really bad on him for making the trade to get him.
If you question the acquisition of Johnson you must also question the acquisition of O'Sullivan. He was supposedly a "Lombardi" player as well. But then when he wanted his pay day he was a selfish, good for nothing, blankety blank. If Johnson has a similar issue this season it would bring to question Dean's ability to judge "character".

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06-05-2009, 04:32 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jwm1986 View Post
No way in H*ell Johnson should get 5+million a year.. thats absurd.. he deserves something like this:

3 years at 3.5 million.. let him live up to his potential before he gets the big boys money.. i would be mad if he gets anything more than that
Anything more than ~1.5 mill per season is paying for potential. Jack's on ice performance is currently not worth more than that.

I consider 3.5 pretty big money, especially when you consider the comparables.

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06-05-2009, 04:34 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Anything more than ~1.5 mill per season is paying for potential. Jack's on ice performance is currently not worth more than that.

I consider 3.5 pretty big money, especially when you consider the comparables.
Does Jack Johnson deserve Mike Commodore money?

**** no. Not at this point. It isn't even close.

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06-05-2009, 04:37 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by fivehole93 View Post
He looked good when he came back
Where do people get this idea? The TEAM PLAYED good for a few games when he first came back, and as a result, he looked pretty decent and profited. As the team **** the bed, so did JJ.



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and had a good WC for team USA.
Can't dispute that. I just hope that opens some opportunity for movement more than anything.

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06-05-2009, 04:37 PM
  #60
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Does Jack Johnson deserve Mike Commodore money?

**** no. Not at this point. It isn't even close.
You have the strangest habit of agreeing with me in a disagreeable way

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06-05-2009, 04:39 PM
  #61
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You have the strangest habit of agreeing with me in a disagreeable way
I just have zero tolerance for idiocy like "Jack Johnson still has Chris Pronger potential" or "Teddy Purcell should be our #2 center"

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06-05-2009, 04:43 PM
  #62
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I just have zero tolerance for idiocy like "Jack Johnson still has Chris Pronger potential" or "Teddy Purcell should be our #2 center"
Redirect friend. I've said neither of those things.

But come on, you and I both know that going from RW to C is a seemless transition

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06-05-2009, 04:43 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
If you question the acquisition of Johnson you must also question the acquisition of O'Sullivan. He was supposedly a "Lombardi" player as well. But then when he wanted his pay day he was a selfish, good for nothing, blankety blank. If Johnson has a similar issue this season it would bring to question Dean's ability to judge "character".
DL is making it very difficult for the apologists

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06-05-2009, 04:44 PM
  #64
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This all sounds like Cammy part 2.

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06-05-2009, 04:45 PM
  #65
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Redirect friend. I've said neither of those things.
I know, but other people have. I'm always going to be harsh on that stuff. I've been dealing with this game too long and my patience runs thin for absurd ideas.

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But come on, you and I both know that going from RW to C is a seemless transition
someone else questioned what I said about Purcell's timidness. I mean how he stiffens up when he get sthe puck to brace himself. you have to be fearless to win in this league. As a center, you have to make sure everyone else knows your fearless. he doesnt have that quality.

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06-05-2009, 04:47 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
If you question the acquisition of Johnson you must also question the acquisition of O'Sullivan. He was supposedly a "Lombardi" player as well. But then when he wanted his pay day he was a selfish, good for nothing, blankety blank. If Johnson has a similar issue this season it would bring to question Dean's ability to judge "character".
I certainly do question the acquisition of O'Sullivan as well. Although, I'm not certain it went down as how you described. I don't think that is the root of why he was traded but I think it was likely at least part of the reason. Believe me, the more stuff that comes out like this, it really makes me question DL. The trade to get O'Sullivan really wasn't a big deal. We gave up a guy who had two seasons left on his contract and wouldn't have helped the team that much in his time here. Along with O'Sullivan, we also got Trevor Lewis (or was it Bernier?). Gleason would've had much more of a long term impact than Demitra.

But you really do have to question DL's thought process on both of these guys given O'Sullivan's family problems and Jack Johnson's dad plus his issues with Carolina. You can't fault O'Sullivan for what he went through but you have to wonder what DL was thinking when he acquired him. Maybe he valued the first rounder more than O'Sullivan?

Like I said, I hope this all comes to pass and Jack is signed at a reasonable rate for a few years so he can prove he deserves the money he wants.

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06-05-2009, 04:49 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Captain Ron View Post
If you question the acquisition of Johnson you must also question the acquisition of O'Sullivan. He was supposedly a "Lombardi" player as well. But then when he wanted his pay day he was a selfish, good for nothing, blankety blank. If Johnson has a similar issue this season it would bring to question Dean's ability to judge "character".
In the spirit of speculation, it could also be the growing pains of shifting the hockey culture. As vague as that is, one concrete thing it can come down to is contract negotiation philosophy. Dean's method of hardball sniffs out the money-grubbing players and it is a very hard transition between just overpaying players to play for you and having players more readily accept your offers because they want to play for you.

Now off the top of my head I can think of 3 or so good reasons to contradict that statement, and I really am just playing devil's (apologists'?) advocate here. Food for thought is all.

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06-05-2009, 04:49 PM
  #68
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Hasnt this same thread be rehashed in about 15 different forms through out HF?

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06-05-2009, 04:49 PM
  #69
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as a fan, why would you fault either acquisition? with each you're either going to cut your losses or profit. I think with O'Sullivan you'll see profit. With JJ, perhaps both. Either way, best thing Dean ever did was not capitulate to O'Sullivan's demands. Who was the guy that was convinced Osullivan was going to be a PPG player? Who is his coach now? muahahahahahahahahahahhaah.

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06-05-2009, 04:50 PM
  #70
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He looked good when he came back
...if you consider -15 in 39 games good

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06-05-2009, 04:51 PM
  #71
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...if you consider -15 in 39 games good
hey I said that already! without the stats...haha.

I have no idea how people think that, beyond the first couple of games when the whole team was humming, JJ looked anything close to "good" for the rest of the year. he was highly average and basically fourth on the backend depth chart behind a tired od, a rookie dd, and an injured kq...

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06-05-2009, 04:52 PM
  #72
Youngblood93
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Hasnt this same thread be rehashed in about 15 different forms through out HF?
yes, which means the Kings off seasons are way too F**king long.

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06-05-2009, 04:55 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by drivelikejoewho View Post
I certainly do question the acquisition of O'Sullivan as well. Although, I'm not certain it went down as how you described. I don't think that is the root of why he was traded but I think it was likely at least part of the reason. Believe me, the more stuff that comes out like this, it really makes me question DL. The trade to get O'Sullivan really wasn't a big deal. We gave up a guy who had two seasons left on his contract and wouldn't have helped the team that much in his time here. Along with O'Sullivan, we also got Trevor Lewis (or was it Bernier?). Gleason would've had much more of a long term impact than Demitra.

But you really do have to question DL's thought process on both of these guys given O'Sullivan's family problems and Jack Johnson's dad plus his issues with Carolina. You can't fault O'Sullivan for what he went through but you have to wonder what DL was thinking when he acquired him. Maybe he valued the first rounder more than O'Sullivan?

Like I said, I hope this all comes to pass and Jack is signed at a reasonable rate for a few years so he can prove he deserves the money he wants.
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Dean acquired both of those guys with the intention of one day dealing them away.

He wants to build through the draft, and perhaps he figured having two guys who weren't draftd by LA, but were drafted earlier and thus would be more NHL ready/valuable when he was ready to start wheeling and dealing, would help him along the way.

Who knows.

It could also be (and to me, most likey is) the case that DL simply had more faith in these two guys than they turned out being worth. It's not black and white, either Dean knew they were trouble but brain farted and ignored it or that he he didn't bother doing his research. He probably knew about their respective fathers, and felt the individuals were quality enough to overcome it. Maybe Dean got sick of waiting for that, or maybe his faith was misplaced a little.

Its not like Dean got to interview either of these guys at their combines right?

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Old
06-05-2009, 04:56 PM
  #74
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you guys...............

are insane........................

Johnson is by far the best defender the last 2 years.
It's not that i'm in love with this guy, he has a lot work to do.
after his surgery he played even better than Doughty.........
If anyone let Johnson go for the garbage price you guys are asking for, i would be more disappointed than seeing Blake lift the Cup in Colorado.

**** of... yes he is playing a game.... but everyone with that talent would do the same....
He tries to put himself in the best situation he can get to negotiate from there.

Stop that freaking Johnson for John Everyname + 6th rounder crap.

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Old
06-05-2009, 05:03 PM
  #75
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you guys...............

are insane........................

Johnson is by far the best defender the last 2 years.
.
Johnson had the worst +/- on the team last year and had the second worst the year before

.....and you're calling us insane

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