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Versteeg/ Barker will be given an offersheet or traded

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Old
06-06-2009, 04:06 AM
  #26
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I would love to find a way to land both Versteeg and Barker... Versteeg especially

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06-06-2009, 04:09 AM
  #27
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NJ offers White and a draft pick for Barker.

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06-06-2009, 04:45 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
What would Dallas need to give up to get Barker?
Neal.

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Old
06-06-2009, 09:05 AM
  #29
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How about Robidas and Daley for Barker?

Robidas brings experience short term. Daley is locked up for a good price long term (3 years) for Barker.

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06-06-2009, 09:20 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LIMITING REAGENT View Post
I wish Burke presented one of these guys with an offer sheet, but..he doesn't believe in signing RFA's. Is it possible to make a deal work for any of these guys with Stajan going the other way?

The day Burke every signs a player to an offer sheet

I think every mod on this site would spend the next 4 days cleaning up the largest mess this board had ever seen.

As for Barker---he is an interesting guy

23 years old and it looking like he will develop into to one hell of a player.

This is where the hawks start paying the price for the campbell contract--I like the hawks and always hated that moved. Hawks were developing nicely and I think both Huet's and campbell's contract were stupid and will hurt the hawks long term.

Verteg is interesting because he has come off a good year and will be looking for a big pay raise ala Pat Sharp. Hawks may not have the room.

If my math is right--hawks have 13players signed for about 39million. Leaving about 20 million left for 8 to 9 players.

I think Havlet, Barker and Bolland are the guys at the top of the list to sign

Say Havlet at 6, Barker at 3 and Bolland at 2.

That brings it up to 16 player signed with about 9 million left for say 6 players inclueding a back up netminder.

I think if the hawks can move sopal's contract at the draft table for a pick--they will and free up some money with that move.

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Old
06-06-2009, 10:32 AM
  #31
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3 million for a young top six is nice for the Pens...what kind of game does he play? Pass first? Shoot first?

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Old
06-06-2009, 10:40 AM
  #32
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Ian White
Alexei Ponikarovsky/Matt Stajan
7th Overall

for

Kris Versteeg
Cam Barker
Chicago's 1st

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Old
06-06-2009, 10:58 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
Chicago should be trading Kane. 14pts in the playoffs and he's a -9? That's embarassing. The kid has zero interest in backchecking. Keep chewing that mouthpiece!
I actually agree.

Toews= Winner
Kane= Paul Karyia.

Enjoy your regular season points but his trade value is higher than his actual value. Smartest thing Chicago could do is trade Kane while/when his value gets highest. He wont be worth a franchise contract. You could get some fairly elite talent for Kane.

IMO
Kane gets you a top 3 pick in this draft (maybe more hard to tell). Duchene would be a nice pick for chicago.
Kane could get you one of the elite young defensemen but you probably dont really want that (keep who you already have).
I would try to package Kane for another Toews like center or a more rugged winger (who scores a bit less) Bobby Ryan?

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Old
06-06-2009, 11:03 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan12 View Post
What teams and money for offersheet/ what would u trade back. Teams Interested? ( I actually think this may happen, even though i would rather it not)

Also, Apparently Tallon wants to get some 27-32 year old players, to balance out the age of the hawks and because we will not be able to keep our whole young team together.Probally a Dman is of interest(2nd or 3rd pairing, cheap defensive dman)
I'd hope that Snow would be interested in trading for Barker.

Hunter+Martinek for Barker?

Hunter and Martinek make a combined $3.5m.

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Old
06-06-2009, 11:10 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
I actually agree.

Toews= Winner
Kane= Paul Karyia.

Enjoy your regular season points but his trade value is higher than his actual value. Smartest thing Chicago could do is trade Kane while/when his value gets highest. He wont be worth a franchise contract. You could get some fairly elite talent for Kane.

IMO
Kane gets you a top 3 pick in this draft (maybe more hard to tell). Duchene would be a nice pick for chicago.
Kane could get you one of the elite young defensemen but you probably dont really want that (keep who you already have).
I would try to package Kane for another Toews like center or a more rugged winger (who scores a bit less) Bobby Ryan?
What are you basing this on? Kane was the Hawks leading scorer in the playoffs, he took over shifts by himself many times in the playoffs, and for god sakes the kid is 20 years old!! He isn't even close to his prime yet!

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06-06-2009, 11:14 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
I actually agree.

Toews= Winner
Kane= Paul Karyia.

Enjoy your regular season points but his trade value is higher than his actual value. Smartest thing Chicago could do is trade Kane while/when his value gets highest. He wont be worth a franchise contract. You could get some fairly elite talent for Kane.

IMO
Kane gets you a top 3 pick in this draft (maybe more hard to tell). Duchene would be a nice pick for chicago.
Kane could get you one of the elite young defensemen but you probably dont really want that (keep who you already have).
I would try to package Kane for another Toews like center or a more rugged winger (who scores a bit less) Bobby Ryan?
Kane may not be as a good a player as Toews is but he (and Havlat) is the real offensive dynamo for the team. Also, for how influential he is see game 6 vs Vancouver. That is some serious clutch scoring, alright he didn't do great against Detroit (that is where most of his minuses came) but he was a very important part of Chicago's playoff run. Kane is only 20 and it was his first playoffs and he performed a lot better than a lot of stars have in their first appearance in the playoffs. His defensive game is poor but he can work on that and it should improve as he gets older. As he matures physically his defensive game should also improve.

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06-06-2009, 11:17 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stajan Fan View Post
What are you basing this on? Kane was the Hawks leading scorer in the playoffs, he took over shifts by himself many times in the playoffs, and for god sakes the kid is 20 years old!! He isn't even close to his prime yet!
My personal opinion. The kid definitely scores. But imo in todays nhl players that will command Franchise Contracts (I believe Kane is one) need to be complete heart and sole type guys.

Toews
Crosby
Zetterberg
Getzlaf

Type characters. You can win with these guys. The Kane, Karyia, selanne, types are merely great supporting players. They are important to a winning team but only if their salaries are that of supporting players. Ie. Sub franchise. If Kane would sign longterm under 6M i could get behind him. Anything more makes him part of the problem. Selanne is a great example as his contracts with the ducks are supporting in nature and the ducks have had the best success since he became a supporting rather than Primary player.

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Old
06-06-2009, 11:35 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solo16 View Post
My personal opinion. The kid definitely scores. But imo in todays nhl players that will command Franchise Contracts (I believe Kane is one) need to be complete heart and sole type guys.

Toews
Crosby
Zetterberg
Getzlaf

Type characters. You can win with these guys. The Kane, Karyia, selanne, types are merely great supporting players. They are important to a winning team but only if their salaries are that of supporting players. Ie. Sub franchise. If Kane would sign longterm under 6M i could get behind him. Anything more makes him part of the problem. Selanne is a great example as his contracts with the ducks are supporting in nature and the ducks have had the best success since he became a supporting rather than Primary player.
Comparing Kane to Selanne or Kariya isn't fair to Kane at the moment. He is 20 years old. Zetterberg took a long time to develop into the player he is today. You're making way too critical of judgments on a 20 year old kid.

Dude he will a 7 year NHL veteran at the age of 25, 25 years old, just think about that for a minute. Let him play beyond his sophomore season in the NHL.

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Old
06-06-2009, 11:38 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stajan Fan View Post
Comparing Kane to Selanne or Kariya isn't fair to Kane at the moment. He is 20 years old. Zetterberg took a long time to develop into the player he is today. You're making way too critical of judgments on a 20 year old kid.

Dude he will a 7 year NHL veteran at the age of 25, 25 years old, just think about that for a minute. Let him play beyond his sophomore season in the NHL.
Fair enough. But he still his entry level contract ends to prove otherwise even if he is only 21/22 then. I am sure the kid will ask for bank at that time and sign a Rick Nashlike contract.

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:32 PM
  #40
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would this get me a taste
Pens offer Chris Kunitz cap hit of 3.7 for 3 more yrs, Mark Eaton cap hit of 2 mil, and rights to Scuderi

for versteeg and Barker.

sorry not sure what there value is im trying to go off the 27 to 32 age limit.

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:45 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flapjack View Post
There is no source, this is clearly speculation.

Campbell will never be traded with that horrid contract.
Versteeg and Barker will be Hawks next year.

Its one of Toews, Kane, or Keith that will be traded.
I really don't think so...

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Old
06-06-2009, 12:51 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stajan Fan View Post
Comparing Kane to Selanne or Kariya isn't fair to Kane at the moment. He is 20 years old. Zetterberg took a long time to develop into the player he is today. You're making way too critical of judgments on a 20 year old kid.

Dude he will a 7 year NHL veteran at the age of 25, 25 years old, just think about that for a minute. Let him play beyond his sophomore season in the NHL.
I agree with you completely that its difficult, if not impossible, to project what a 20 or 21 year old player will become. But.... and this is a BIG but, this is how the NHL works now. Second contracts are huge. A decision will need to be made about Kane based on information available. I can't say for certain, but I doubt he is going to accept a contract under 5mm a year... even short term.

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06-06-2009, 12:54 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post
Chicago should be trading Kane. 14pts in the playoffs and he's a -9? That's embarassing. The kid has zero interest in backchecking. Keep chewing that mouthpiece!
Toews and Kane will never be traded by the Blackhawks.

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Old
06-06-2009, 01:08 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by slapshot723 View Post
Toews and Kane will never be traded by the Blackhawks.
This. Keith and seabs will also probally aswell. they are the core. They will not be traded for anything short of an overpayment(and A HUGE one at that)

The cap will not kill the core, it kills the complementary pieces ie verstteg and barker

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06-06-2009, 01:08 PM
  #45
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Versteeg and Barker won't be traded..

another thing, Tallon has never said he wants a bunch of player from 27-32.. not at all..

there is actually talk that the hawk may get a little younger next year..

by bring in Crawford/Niemi for Habby.. that knocks a solid couple years

and the latest Sassone article from the Tribune speculates bring in Beach and Skille and taking out Fraser and Eager


that being said.. why would Chicago trade KANE
everyone is Chicago knows that Kane isn't a 7 million dollar player.. he's a solid 5 million dollar player.. Excel is some aspects (passing and vision).. very good shot.. but he lacks in other areas such as defense and size

which means he won't command a 7 million dollar a year contract which is alright with Chicago..

if you can look in Havlat, Toews, Kane all around 5-5.5 a year.. that opens up spacing to keep Barker, Bolland, Vestreeg and some other key guys..

Campbell will never get traded because of his contract..

does anyone know if he has a NTC? im assuming he does just because of the length of the contract and money involved...

Chicago will get rid of alot of excess $ before they get rid of Versteeg and Barker.. ie. Buff, Sopel, Huet (waive him if you have to) .. those 3 guys combined will give you over 10 million in cap space.. which gets you versteeg and barker signed, as well as keith


and next season the Hawks are not in cap trouble, its the year after, which mean that next season they should be able to field the same team

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06-06-2009, 01:45 PM
  #46
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I find it funny nobody has a real grasp of the salary cap yet and belive everybody will be signed reguardless of their market value.

Kane, Toews, and Keith will all demand 6 million a year, nothing less considering the horrid contract Fail Tallon gave Campbell and his third pairing defenseman skill.

Thats 25 million on four players alone.

Which means, one of the big three for the Hawks will be traded at their current cap slot, its that simple.

There is no Chicago discount, team loyalty, McEgo's "sumpthin special happenin" thats gonna change it.Theres no NHL2K doctoring of the real cap that will make everybody want to stay, its not going to happen.

By making those horrible, cap killing signings last year, the Hawks placed their entire chance at winning the Cup, even with all the skill they could have had, into the failure of this year.No Hawk team will have as much talent as this one did, and even next year, your looking at Havlat being gone, Khabby gone, and possibly one of the big three gone by training camp, thats reality. Not even mentioning that the players replacing these are no where in the same skillset, the Hawks will commit subtraction by subtraction.

Tallon himself had to belive the Hawks were a Campbell away from winning the Cup, there is no other explanation to giving out such a horrible contract.
McEgo's desire to control everything about the Hawks, without previous hockey knowledge showed with the pitiful contract given Huet, which was all McEgo, over riding Fail.

And now, out of sheer incompitance, this team is worse, a playoff team that will be done in the first round, considering how their depth is now gone to cap casualties.

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06-06-2009, 01:53 PM
  #47
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We've all seen good 21, 20, 19, and 18 yr. olds come into the league and be competent two-way players. Kane is utterly incompetent as a two way player, and I saw several games this year where yes, he "took the game over" for a shift or two and scored meaningful goals. But before or after those goals he made the Blackhawks short handed by default and did nothing defensively and let the goalie get shelled on odd man rushes that resulted in back breaking goals.

In the Detroit series, Kane talked big to Vs. about how the team needed to play better in their own zone and be better defensively. He then proceeded to play an absolutely negligent period defensively as if he was playing summer inline with a bunch of his videogame bros.

He's an offensive talent, and a disgrace as a hockey player. Kovalchuk, while being a poor defensive player, has always busted his butt even early on to try and backcheck on opponents' odd man rushes. Kane won't even do his team that courtesy most of the time.

A team with Kane and Campbell is never going to hoist the Cup.

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06-06-2009, 02:04 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxostoma Rufum View Post

A team with Kane and Campbell is never going to hoist the Cup.
This.

Trading Kane would be the right thing to do.

Hawk fans dont want to belive in the fact Kane is a cancer with his artocious defense, and taking cheap penalties almost every game.

He is prolly the easiest player to push off the puck in the league considering his size, is horrible on the boards, and is completely lost in his own end.

I fully approve trading him, maybe to the Sabres for a package including the goalie prospect.

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06-06-2009, 02:33 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawksfan12 View Post
What teams and money for offersheet/ what would u trade back. Teams Interested? ( I actually think this may happen, even though i would rather it not)

Also, Apparently Tallon wants to get some 27-32 year old players, to balance out the age of the hawks and because we will not be able to keep our whole young team together.Probally a Dman is of interest(2nd or 3rd pairing, cheap defensive dman)
Edmonton would like Versteeg.

To Chicago:

Ladislav Smid (Cheap, young, 2nd/3rd pairing dman)
3rd Round Draft Pick 2009
2nd Round Draft Pick 2010
X Prospect?

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06-06-2009, 02:38 PM
  #50
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I dont even like Kane, but some of the posts in this thread are ridiculous!

You are comparing a 20year old Kane to a 26year old Kovalchuk(who has won absolutely nothing in Atlanta), a 38 year old Selanne and a 34year old Kariya. Some of you have very short memories, or are just stupid in general. Need I remind you, all time great, Steve Yzerman wasn't a great defensive player by any means early in his career. It took him several years to become the Selke winner he eventually became. Or that, Henrik Zetterberg was esentially a playoff bust up until the age of 27 where he won the Conn Smythe.

You people are labelling Kane a "supporting player" while Toews is the "winner" on the team. Even if this is true (which it isn't) whats wrong with that? Did you guys forget the Blackhawks have BOTH players on the team? Every winning player needs a good supporting cast, and who better than Patrick Kane for support?

And can you remind me again why we're labeling Toews a winner while Kane is the supporting player? Is this based solely on his 2way game and leadership skills? Because we certainly can't be basing it on his 3pt, -3 in 5gp against the Red Wings..Or how about that stretch in the playoffs where he went 1pt -4 in 6gp?

Yes it is true, the Blackhawks are very close to the cap with a ton of players to sign. That doesn't mean all hope is lost for this young team. By the time Keith, Kane & Toews are RFA/UFA, Huet will only have 2 more seasons left on his contract, Byfuglien 1..etc The Campbell signing was idiotic, there is no disputing this fact and most likely they will be forced to live with this signing until it eventually runs out, but they can work around it. I beleive that they can let Versteeg go if he asks for too much since Chicago still has a very deep prospect pool with Beach, Aliu, Sweatt, Makarov all close to being ready for NHL action. In todays NHL you let role players and supporting players go to free agency, and replace them with cheaper FA's or prospects. You build around a core and go from there.

Chicago's core should be:
Campbell (forced) 7.1M
Huet 5.65M
Toews (~5.75M)
Kane (~6M)
Havlat (~5M)
Keith (~4.5M)
Seabrook 3.5M
Barker (~3M)
= 8 Players(1G-4D-3F) for 35.1M..Leaving 20M to fill out the rest of the roster.

Ex. Pittsburgh Penguins 2x Stanley Cup Finalist (maybe 1x winner)
Crosby 8.7M
Malkin 8.7M
Kunitz 3.7M
Staal 4M
Gonchar 5M
Oprik 3.75M
Eaton 2M
Fleury 5M
= 8 players (1G-3D-4F) for 40.85M leaving 15M to fill out the rest of the roster..

As you can see, it can be done, you just need to be smart about it.

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