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Old
06-07-2009, 02:10 PM
  #26
Giroux tha Damaja
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Philly was hoping to improve defensively in terms of size, but you have to take what you can get, and Kaberle is no slouch obviously. This might give us 4 defensemen capable of making a break out pass (imagine!). All while moving some of the teams salary and skill from offense to defense, I love this deal.

Can we give you Randy Jones and a 4th too? He is overpaid currently but when he is healthy he can be a decent second pairing guy. The rub being I don't know if he'll ever be 100% again with his hip.

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Old
06-07-2009, 02:17 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am The Mush View Post
Philly was hoping to improve defensively in terms of size, but you have to take what you can get, and Kaberle is no slouch obviously. This might give us 4 defensemen capable of making a break out pass (imagine!). All while moving some of the teams salary and skill from offense to defense, I love this deal.

Can we give you Randy Jones and a 4th too? He is overpaid currently but when he is healthy he can be a decent second pairing guy. The rub being I don't know if he'll ever be 100% again with his hip.
No

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06-07-2009, 02:24 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Hmm I dunno. The type of guy we need isn't Kaberle, he's essentially a better version of Carle, the type of guy we need is the one that gets in the chops of opposing forwards who crash our net (think Brooks Orpik, preferably without the 3.750 cap hit).

Now, if you do this deal and then trade Carle for that type of "get in your face" guy, that would be good.

I'd still just be a little worried about offense if we lose Briere, Lupul, and Knuble all in one offseason and basically count on JVR and Nodl to replace them.
I think if something like this were to go down, it would give us room to re-sign Knuble to short term deal

Gagne-Richards-Knuble
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Stajan-Asham
Carcillo-Ross-Nodl

Timonen-Parent
Coburn-Kaberle
Jones/Sbisa-A cheap physical stay at home d-man we trade for Carle

Hell, I'd just waive Jones and give us some more cap space. All that's left is the goalies

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Old
06-07-2009, 02:32 PM
  #29
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Hmm...Briere's cap hit and length of contract make me hesistant to do this deal. Particularily the length as I'm worried that Briere will be approaching the "over the hill" stage of his career once we have assembled a strong team around him. However, because of that salary I'd be looking for more in return for the Leafs. Perhaps an added pick from Philly with the removal of our 3rd rounder?

Also, in the interest of speeding up the process of injecting youth into our system I wouldn't give the option of 1st rounders and instead take the 2009.

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06-07-2009, 02:35 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyguy View Post
I think if something like this were to go down, it would give us room to re-sign Knuble to short term deal

Gagne-Richards-Knuble
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Stajan-Asham
Carcillo-Ross-Nodl

Timonen-Parent
Coburn-Kaberle
Jones/Sbisa-A cheap physical stay at home d-man we trade for Carle

Hell, I'd just waive Jones and give us some more cap space. All that's left is the goalies
I don't mind resigning Knuble, but I do think Gagne-Richards-Knuble has some serious limitations as a line (they got wrecked by Kunitz-Crosby-Guerin too).

I wouldn't mind keeping Knuble as a 3rd line player because that 3rd line doesn't thrill me too much.

I'd still like to see this group of d-men with a decent coach, I think they have the talent to be solid, but we can't do that right now when we have 5 individuals on the ice all the time instead of 1 unit.

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Old
06-07-2009, 02:44 PM
  #31
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Wow thank you for posting a realistic toronto trade proposal...its an absolute breath of fresh air.

I'd do this from TOs perspective, Id want the 1st this year thou.

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Old
06-07-2009, 03:37 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
This isn't trolling, I just want a feel for Briere's value on the trade front.

Lets be honest, outside of Garbovski we (The Leafs) don't have a talented #1 Centre (and even he is better suited for 2nd line duties). From the rumors here in Canada you guys are looking to move Briere - again those are rumors.

I personally think if Burke is going to take a salary dump he needs to target players that have BIG upside like Patrice Bergeron, Jordan Staal or Danny Briere.

Here is my proposal - to get a feel for value:

To Toronto:

Danny Briere
1st round pick (2009 or 2010 - Flyers choice)

To Flyers:

Tomas Kaberle
Matt Stajan
3rd round pick



Break down - Stajan gives you guys a quality Centre that plays behind Carter & Richards (who only makes 1.7 mil)

Kaberle gives you the #1 or #2 PP QB.

Briere gives Toronto its #1 Centre we lack so badly.


Again, this isn't trolling; i'm just getting an idea of what the flyers feel Briere's value is.

Thanks
I have to admit I like this deal. If everyone went for it and it was the 2010 pick....Done Deal!

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Old
06-07-2009, 03:55 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Hmm I dunno. The type of guy we need isn't Kaberle, he's essentially a better version of Carle, the type of guy we need is the one that gets in the chops of opposing forwards who crash our net (think Brooks Orpik, preferably without the 3.750 cap hit).

Now, if you do this deal and then trade Carle for that type of "get in your face" guy, that would be good.

I'd still just be a little worried about offense if we lose Briere, Lupul, and Knuble all in one offseason and basically count on JVR and Nodl to replace them.
I don't think we lose Knuble and Lupul if we do this trade. Probably one of them. I haven't crunched the numbers, though.

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Old
06-07-2009, 04:41 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
I don't think we lose Knuble and Lupul if we do this trade. Probably one of them. I haven't crunched the numbers, though.
I dunno, I think the difference we'd gain in this trade would be like 500K.

Besides, I have serious reservations about handing Knuble a 1st line spot again, I theorized throughout the season that he did slow that line down and I think he would be a very solid 3rd line guy, but I don't feel like trying to give him 20 minutes a night.

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Old
06-07-2009, 04:44 PM
  #35
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I thank all the Leafs fans who have stopped by on this thread and been very nice. I think it's a solid proposal that helps out both sides. However, I think the Flyers would have to include the 2009 1st or if it's the 2010 1st then we'd have to include a quality defensive prospect, say Bourdon or Marshall. I think it breaks down about this way:


Kabs = 2009 1st or 2010 st + prospect
Briere = Stajan + pick (3rd in this case)


I think a possible alternant to the trade could be this:

To Philly - Kabs + Stajan + 09 2nd
To Tor - Briere + 09 1st + Marshall/Bourdon

If the flyers trade their 1st this year then we wouldn't have a pick until the 81st pick of the draft. I don't think Tor has their 2nd this year but I think they aquired two at the trade deadline.

At any rate I'd do the original deal too. I think it does address both teams "needs" and I think it has about the right value figured in. Again, thank you for a good honest proposal.


Last edited by phlocky: 06-07-2009 at 05:35 PM.
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Old
06-07-2009, 04:46 PM
  #36
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I would be fine with this. Kaberle does not have a long contract, so when we need money in a few years, he will be gone. I do not like giving up teh 1st, but this deal seems fair

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06-07-2009, 04:47 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I dunno, I think the difference we'd gain in this trade would be like 500K.

Besides, I have serious reservations about handing Knuble a 1st line spot again, I theorized throughout the season that he did slow that line down and I think he would be a very solid 3rd line guy, but I don't feel like trying to give him 20 minutes a night.
Yes we only save 500k but we fill TWO roster spots with that money. THAT'S the key difference.

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06-07-2009, 05:00 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I thank all the Leafs fans who have stopped by on this thread and been very nice. I think it's a solid proposal that helps out both sides. However, I think the Flyers would have to include the 2009 1st or if it's the 2010 1st then we'd have to include a quality defensive prospect, say Bourdon or Marshall. I think it breaks down about this way:


Kabs = 2009 1st or 2010 st + prospect
Briere + Stajan + pick (3rd in this case)


I think a possible alternant to the trade could be this:

To Philly - Kabs + Stajan + 09 2nd
To Tor - Briere + 09 1st + Marshall/Bourdon


If the flyers trade their 1st this year then we wouldn't have a pick until the 81st pick of the draft. I don't think Tor has their 2nd this year but I think they aquired two at the trade deadline.

At any rate I'd do the original deal too. I think it does address both teams "needs" and I think it has about the right value figured in. Again, thank you for a good honest proposal.
Heck, i'd do that (as a leafs fan)

Thats better than the trade i proposed for us!

I started this thread because I think there could be something happen between our 2 teams this summer. Burke has said he plans to use our cap space to take on contracts - as in salary relief, but he plans to get draft picks back.

So if we plan (the leafs) to take on contracts i'd perfer it to be quality players, and according to rumors Briere might be shopped, and i'd love to add him here in Toronto. I have a feeling he and Garbovski would be Hab killers

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Old
06-07-2009, 05:15 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I dunno, I think the difference we'd gain in this trade would be like 500K.

Besides, I have serious reservations about handing Knuble a 1st line spot again, I theorized throughout the season that he did slow that line down and I think he would be a very solid 3rd line guy, but I don't feel like trying to give him 20 minutes a night.
And Stajan's 1.75 (as well as Jones 2.75) can go away when we have to re-sign Coburn & Parent. Kaberle's 4.25 goes away when we have Girioux, Sbiza & Carter going RFA, Gagne going UFA. Not enough alone but better than no salary going away.

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Old
06-07-2009, 05:25 PM
  #40
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I also have to wonder if Burke would want to add another smallish forward to the Leafs after his statement about getting bigger and meaner, as well as his comments about Jordan Schroeder ( he, in summary, said that there is a place for smaller forwards but the Leafs have smaller forwards, and inicated that it reduced his interest in Schroeder). Add to that his apparent wariness about players signed beyond next season and it might complicate a deal such as this.

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06-07-2009, 05:38 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Spasmic Dan View Post
I also have to wonder if Burke would want to add another smallish forward to the Leafs after his statement about getting bigger and meaner, as well as his comments about Jordan Schroeder ( he, in summary, said that there is a place for smaller forwards but the Leafs have smaller forwards, and inicated that it reduced his interest in Schroeder). Add to that his apparent wariness about players signed beyond next season and it might complicate a deal such as this.
Honestly, we don't have very many real NHL quality foward prospects and the ones we have aren't big and snarrely.

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Old
06-07-2009, 06:30 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Spasmic Dan View Post
I also have to wonder if Burke would want to add another smallish forward to the Leafs after his statement about getting bigger and meaner, as well as his comments about Jordan Schroeder ( he, in summary, said that there is a place for smaller forwards but the Leafs have smaller forwards, and inicated that it reduced his interest in Schroeder). Add to that his apparent wariness about players signed beyond next season and it might complicate a deal such as this.
he said he likes the top 6 being skilled and the bottom 6 being the work horses that do all the dirty work.

He likes skill first, and thats what Briere brings.

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Old
06-07-2009, 06:36 PM
  #43
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I'll throw my "yes" vote in.

We move salary from an area of strength to an area of need. Allows us to move Carle and hide Jones in the dumpster or whatever.

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06-07-2009, 06:38 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
he said he likes the top 6 being skilled and the bottom 6 being the work horses that do all the dirty work.

He likes skill first, and thats what Briere brings.
Yes but Jordan Schroeder is one of the most skilled forwards in the draft, so taking that example it seems Burke likes to mix size in with skill. He wants skill players in the top 6 and grinders in the bottom six, yes, but size is still an advantage.

All I'm saying is that the size factor combined with the very large contract will probably make Burke shy away from Briere.

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Old
06-07-2009, 07:00 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I dunno, I think the difference we'd gain in this trade would be like 500K.

Besides, I have serious reservations about handing Knuble a 1st line spot again, I theorized throughout the season that he did slow that line down and I think he would be a very solid 3rd line guy, but I don't feel like trying to give him 20 minutes a night.
Gagne (5.25) Richards (5.75) Giroux (.821)
Hartnell (4.2) Carter (5) Lupul (4.25)
Carcillo (.893) Stajan (1.75) ????
Cote (.55) Powe (.52) Asham (.64)

Forwards - 29.624

Timonen (6.3) Kaberle (4.25)
Carle (3.5) Coburn (1.3)
Jones (2.75) Parent (.855)

Defense - 18.955

Emery (1.5)
????

Goaltending - 1.5

Total - 50.079

So that leaves us about $6M to sign Knuble, a back-up goaltender, and carry a 13th forward and 7th defenseman. I don't know, but to me that sounds pretty damn good.

...unless my math is wrong.

Not to mention you can still waive Jones and pick up that banger we're looking for.

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06-07-2009, 07:02 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spasmic Dan View Post
Yes but Jordan Schroeder is one of the most skilled forwards in the draft, so taking that example it seems Burke likes to mix size in with skill. He wants skill players in the top 6 and grinders in the bottom six, yes, but size is still an advantage.

All I'm saying is that the size factor combined with the very large contract will probably make Burke shy away from Briere.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Burke target Voros and guys like that to bulk up the leafs. But we need guys like Briere to give this team some talent.

Briere would bring back the good old Gilmour days, that we all miss so badly.

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06-07-2009, 07:04 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Gagne (5.25) Richards (5.75) Giroux (.821)
Hartnell (4.2) Carter (5) Lupul (4.25)
Carcillo (.893) Stajan (1.75) ????
Cote (.55) Powe (.52) Asham (.64)

Forwards - 29.624

Timonen (6.3) Kaberle (4.25)
Carle (3.5) Coburn (1.3)
Jones (2.75) Parent (.855)

Defense - 18.955

Emery (1.5)
????

Goaltending - 1.5

Total - 50.079

So that leaves us about $6M to sign Knuble, a back-up goaltender, and carry a 13th forward and 7th defenseman. I don't know, but to me that sounds pretty damn good.

...unless my math is wrong.
that is pretty good

Sign Knuble to a 1 year 2.1mil
Sign Nitty to a 1 year 1.75 mil
call up the 13th forward ~ 500K
sign a depth d'man under 1 mil

That leaves around 1 mil in cap space to make a move at the deadline.

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Old
06-07-2009, 07:05 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by sgupca View Post
that is pretty good

Sign Knuble to a 1 year 2.1mil
Sign Nitty to a 1 year 1.75 mil
call up the 13th forward ~ 500K
sign a depth d'man under 1 mil

That leaves around 1 mil in cap space to make a move at the deadline.
Yup.

Plus the edit I made - we can always waive Jones and bring in the bruising defenseman a lot of us want, or trade Carle for the same purpose.

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06-07-2009, 07:08 PM
  #49
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It's amazing the possibilities this team would have if Briere were moved. But he is a PPG guy. I don't think that could ever be overlooked. Trading him would definitely mean that the way the forwards corp is assembled would change. Richards and Carter would probably get more even strength time than they had last year, and add that to all the special teams time they get anyway... well it worries me. If Briere leaves, I think the team needs to get a forward who can play a lot of PK time. Pahlsson looks so tempting in that slot.

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06-07-2009, 07:09 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
I thank all the Leafs fans who have stopped by on this thread and been very nice. I think it's a solid proposal that helps out both sides. However, I think the Flyers would have to include the 2009 1st or if it's the 2010 1st then we'd have to include a quality defensive prospect, say Bourdon or Marshall. I think it breaks down about this way:


Kabs = 2009 1st or 2010 st + prospect
Briere = Stajan + pick (3rd in this case)


I think a possible alternant to the trade could be this:

To Philly - Kabs + Stajan + 09 2nd
To Tor - Briere + 09 1st + Marshall/Bourdon

If the flyers trade their 1st this year then we wouldn't have a pick until the 81st pick of the draft. I don't think Tor has their 2nd this year but I think they aquired two at the trade deadline.

At any rate I'd do the original deal too. I think it does address both teams "needs" and I think it has about the right value figured in. Again, thank you for a good honest proposal.

I'd do that with Marshall in there, and I'd still get rid of Jones and Lupul and re-sign Knuble.

Gagne-Richards-Knuble
Hartnell-Carter-Giroux
Powe-Stajan-UFA (Samuelsson?)
Carcillo-Ross-Asham
Cote

Timonen-Kaberle
Carle-Parent
Sbisa-Coburn
Alberts/UFA

Emery
Harding

That lineup might not be dominant, but it'd be very good, and it would be somewhere around $52 million in payroll.

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