We could let one of Tanguay/Kovalev go, but at center Habs are seriously shorthanded and Koivu is one of the better options at the free agent market available.
I'd give him same as he makes now to keep him for couple more years... and hope Plekanec, Maxwell or whoever raises to the occasion. The retirement scheme seems a classy too.
I'd offer Koivu $3 million a season and give him a 2 year contract to be the teams 3rd line centerman. Thats the only way I want Koivu back.
The Habs should be concentrating on signing a true #1 centerman. If it was up to me, I'd re-sign Lang to be our 2nd line centerman because he is bigger and has more offence than Koivu has. Trade Plekanec away in a package to help aquire another #1 defencemen, use Koivu as our 3rd line center and Lapierre can be our 4th line center. That would give us great depth at center....especially if we could sign a guy like Lecavalier as our #1 guy.
LOL @ Markov79fan for comparing ********* Recchi and Saku.
I wish Koivu was a good as Recchi.
Recchi played in 80 games last year and scored 61 points with 2 teams and the man is 41. Recchi goes hard to the net and scores garbage goals and takes a beating. He is a good play maker and can read the play very well. He always seems to be in the right place at the right time.
so since im not the biggest koivu fans and vocal about it im a "underserving fan" ????? can't we have opinion here without being call undeserving fan
Don't you know you can't say anything negative about Koivu or everybody will be all over you??? I learned that the hard way as well. I have been saying its time for a change and we need to part ways with Koivu because he is slowing down a lot, he' always misses 10-15 games a season now and because he hasn't done anything significant as the Habs captain and I got dumped on by all the Koivu lovers who insist that he is the greatest team leader in the NHL....lol.
I agree with you, I think if Koivu wants to comeback in a smaller role on the Habs, play fewer minutes and play on the 3rd line for $3 million a season, then sure, bring him back. But he doesn't deserve 1st line minutes and he doesn't deserve to make anymore money.
Personally, I'd rather see him test the free agent market and find a new team captain. Someone who is a born leader and someone who will lead on the ice and in the dressing room....not just be a motivator like Koivu's been coming back from cancer and an eye injury.
Recchi played in 80 games last year and scored 61 points with 2 teams and the man is 41. Recchi goes hard to the net and scores garbage goals and takes a beating. He is a good play maker and can read the play very well. He always seems to be in the right place at the right time.
And Koivu is a play maker who is forced to go to the front of the net, because no one else will half the time.
Koivu should be the 2nd line centre and being the 2nd line centre, he will still get powerplay time.
When Koivu does come back and is offered a contract it will probably be a 3 or 4 year deal that trickles downwards. It might even go as high as 5 years, the reason being that the CAP hit could be lowered and the final 2 years could be minimal. Since Koivu is signing the contract before he turns 35 he can retire after the 3rd or 4th year of the contract and it would not count against the CAP. That is my speculation at least.
Something along the lines of 5 years at 12m - with the breakdown as follows: 4, 4, 2, 1, 1.
I like this deal....as long as he grows into the 2nd/3rd line center role
could still be very effective without the heavy responsibility of carying a team he can't do anymore
And Koivu is a play maker who is forced to go to the front of the net, because no one else will half the time.
Koivu should be the 2nd line centre and being the 2nd line centre, he will still get powerplay time.
Its Koivu's decision to go to the net, nobody is forcing him to. He could carry the puck more if he was able to hold on to it like he could 4 years ago, but the truth is he can't. He turns the puck over a lot.
He's a checking line centerman who is trying to be a playmaker....and it isn't working for him or the Habs. There are other guys who can hold onto the puck and make plays better than Koivu.
Its on thing to be a Koivu fan and cheer him on when he does something good, but you can't simply ignore when he does something wrong just because you're a fan of his. I've watched him take stupid penalties over the last couple years, I've watched him turn the puck over, which is why he takes the stupid penalties. He goes on a 15 game point streak and strings along another 35 points across the whole season and some of you see him as a superstar??
I like Koivu, but I refuse to ignore the fact that he's slowing down considerably and that he isn't the same hockey player he was 5 years ago.
If Gainey still wants Koivu and Koivu still wants to be a Hab and only wants a 2 or 3 year deal as GM I would push for a 5 year term. This will lower the CAP hit for sure and If Koivu only wants to play 2 or 3 more years he can retire and the money is off the books along with the CAP hit. If he is not in the Habs plans after 2 or 3 years he can be bought out. It makes sense for both sides.
As for Koivu not being a valid centre anymore whether a number 1 or number 2 he most certainly still has the talent and will to be a solid number 2. Everyone keeps saying he will go to Minnesota to play with his brother or Anaheim to play with Selanne well I hate to tell you all but on both those teams he would be the number 2 centre. If Gainey can muster up a trade to get a solid number 2 centre or a legit number 1 then having Koivu at number 2 will most definitely be a bonus for the Habs. Plus we get the added bonus of still having our Captain.
If Gainey still wants Koivu and Koivu still wants to be a Hab and only wants a 2 or 3 year deal as GM I would push for a 5 year term. This will lower the CAP hit for sure and If Koivu only wants to play 2 or 3 more years he can retire and the money is off the books along with the CAP hit. If he is not in the Habs plans after 2 or 3 years he can be bought out. It makes sense for both sides.
As for Koivu not being a valid centre anymore whether a number 1 or number 2 he most certainly still has the talent and will to be a solid number 2. Everyone keeps saying he will go to Minnesota to play with his brother or Anaheim to play with Selanne well I hate to tell you all but on both those teams he would be the number 2 centre. If Gainey can muster up a trade to get a solid number 2 centre or a legit number 1 then having Koivu at number 2 will most definitely be a bonus for the Habs. Plus we get the added bonus of still having our Captain.
You mean the guy who hasn't lead us passed the second round through his whole career??
Listen....I don't hate Koivu by any means.....but its time for a change. I don't think his leadership is taking the team in the right direction. If it was, we'd have won a cup by now or at least made it to the Eastern Conference Finals or something.
Don't you know you can't say anything negative about Koivu or everybody will be all over you??? I learned that the hard way as well. I have been saying its time for a change and we need to part ways with Koivu because he is slowing down a lot, he' always misses 10-15 games a season now and because he hasn't done anything significant as the Habs captain and I got dumped on by all the Koivu lovers who insist that he is the greatest team leader in the NHL....lol.
I agree with you, I think if Koivu wants to comeback in a smaller role on the Habs, play fewer minutes and play on the 3rd line for $3 million a season, then sure, bring him back. But he doesn't deserve 1st line minutes and he doesn't deserve to make anymore money.
Personally, I'd rather see him test the free agent market and find a new team captain. Someone who is a born leader and someone who will lead on the ice and in the dressing room....not just be a motivator like Koivu's been coming back from cancer and an eye injury.
You know, there's a difference between saying it's time to move on with Koivu (which can be debated but there's certainly a case to be made about it, getting older, less stamina, small down the middle, etc) and saying said player moans and complains when seeing his ice time cut because the voices in my head told me so.
I know that personally, I value posters who can think by themselves and base opinions on documented facts and analysis of the game, not just by regurgitating the Kool-aid served by some clueless clown on 110%. An opinion doesn't have to be pulled out of your butt just because it's an opinion.
If I were GM, I'd ask Koivu how much he wants to stay and I'd also ask him how many years he thinks he can keep it up. Then I'd tell him I'd offer him exactly the $ and number of years he wants and is capable of, and then I'd ask him if he'd mind adding the same number of years at 1mil per to his contract, this way both parties will make sure they get what they want, please the player, and add space to the cap. I'm sure Koivu is a smart enough fellow to understand the concept. The only problem is if he thinks and wants to perform beyond 36-37 years old.
Anyway, I hope this is what happens if he signs, like others have suggested before. And if he retires before the 1 mil $ seasons starts (or before or after that) the cap hit won't count, so both parties win.
You mean the guy who hasn't lead us passed the second round through his whole career??
Listen....I don't hate Koivu by any means.....but its time for a change. I don't think his leadership is taking the team in the right direction. If it was, we'd have won a cup by now or at least made it to the Eastern Conference Finals or something.
You mean the guy who hasn't lead us passed the second round through his whole career??
Listen....I don't hate Koivu by any means.....but its time for a change. I don't think his leadership is taking the team in the right direction. If it was, we'd have won a cup by now or at least made it to the Eastern Conference Finals or something.
It's just my opinion.
Gee... That means Ray Bourque was a baaaaaad captain.
(I know Bourque made it to the SC finals with Boston once, and the conference finals twice, but that's over a span of 17 seasons, a major part as captain. But as captain he made the 3rd round twice in 11 seasons as captain without a SC appearrance)
On how many teams of koivu's that were cataloged as a contender before the playoffs? The only one you could name was last year, and its not like he didn't do his share to help the team.
So yeah, Koivu never made it out of the second round, but never had teams that were projected to go further either and here lies the proof that he is indeed a good captain, because he's been on teams that WEREN'T supposed to go that far, and yet advanced to the second round, and even make the playoffs when they shouldn't. And this is because Koivu had mostly crappy teams in his career, because if you look at Koivu's stats in the playoffs, he is among the clutch players who always performs in the playoffs. It's all contradictory to your argument.
And when the players are asked, even journalists admit, Koivu is mentioned from a majority of players. Heck, Koivu even has fans on other teams, among the players and I'm not talking about old teamates.
This old argument has been debunked so many times before I can't believe someone would still bring it up.
Last edited by Ozymandias: 06-08-2009 at 11:56 AM.
If Gainey still wants Koivu and Koivu still wants to be a Hab and only wants a 2 or 3 year deal as GM I would push for a 5 year term. This will lower the CAP hit for sure and If Koivu only wants to play 2 or 3 more years he can retire and the money is off the books along with the CAP hit. If he is not in the Habs plans after 2 or 3 years he can be bought out. It makes sense for both sides.
As for Koivu not being a valid centre anymore whether a number 1 or number 2 he most certainly still has the talent and will to be a solid number 2. Everyone keeps saying he will go to Minnesota to play with his brother or Anaheim to play with Selanne well I hate to tell you all but on both those teams he would be the number 2 centre. If Gainey can muster up a trade to get a solid number 2 centre or a legit number 1 then having Koivu at number 2 will most definitely be a bonus for the Habs. Plus we get the added bonus of still having our Captain.
95% sure this is wrong. UFA above 34 (which is the part I'm unsure about) will see their cap hit counting against the cap even after their retire.
5 coaches, a team that can't win a game past the first round, several problems with players out of the ice.
My question is more: how can you see him as a captain?
So koivu is responsible for not only the coach's competence (or lack thereof), but also for the team that is put on the ice and the actions of other players off the ice. He should also be responsible for injuries while we're at it.
Tell me, how many coaches have passed in front of Brodeur along the years? My point is, many great players have had more coaches than Koivu, so this argument is pure BS.
Is Koivu the one behind the GM bench between 1995 and 2003 making poor decisions, making the team a sureshot for missing the playoffs? While we're at it, Koivu should be held accountable for the games we've lost while he was injured, because after all, he's the one responsible for his injuries. I know you didn't say this, I'm just trying to help you make-up other BS arguments you can use and try not to sound stupid while you say it.
IS Koivu the one responsible for the young players going out late and partying? Not that he is actually responsible for them, but how can you be sure Koivu didn't talk to them, try to put some sense into them, without getting results as its often the case with young people, because you see, young people are stubborn and think they know everything already (kinda reminds me of a particular situation going on), they need to be thought yet don't accept the truth when they see it or if they do, it is already too late. But yeah, Koivu is the one responsible, yet we haven't even seen 0,0001% of what went on behind closed doors, yet we have to pretend its all Koivu's fault based on only the results on the ice, which can be imputable to many many factors beside the captain, who might have been a positive factor, but not enough as it was something out of control, like youth are.
You know, there's a difference between saying it's time to move on with Koivu (which can be debated but there's certainly a case to be made about it, getting older, less stamina, small down the middle, etc) and saying said player moans and complains when seeing his ice time cut because the voices in my head told me so.
I know that personally, I value posters who can think by themselves and base opinions on documented facts and analysis of the game, not just by regurgitating the Kool-aid served by some clueless clown on 110%. An opinion doesn't have to be pulled out of your butt just because it's an opinion.
But see thats part of the problem. We can list 15 reasons why we should get rid of Koivu and post links to support them all, but if the links are from sources that SOME people don't like, some of you guys just dismiss them all as if they were 100% wrong, even though you have no idea if they are wrong or not......so why bother coming up with facts to support your opinion when people just say "oh it was 110% or cyberpresse that said it so it can't be true".
You tell people to back up their opinions, so they do and then they are still wrong.
People don't need to backup their OPINIONS because they are just that.....opinions. I don't like Koivu as our captain....thats my opinion....so why do I have to find links or facts to back up the fact that I don't like him as the captain???
It makes no sense. If we are talking about rumors of players who might sign here or possible trades, then sure, post links to prove its being discussed by someone in the press or with on of the teams, or the players agents.....but if it is just someone's opinion, you don't need to back that up....theres nothing to back up.
