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06-10-2009, 06:39 PM
  #176
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Why do fans worry about Coburn and now Giroux? We have to re-sign Cobrun, we have to, we have to do it. Coburn did not do anything to deserve 4M a year, he should get similar contract to Edler or Suter plus Coburn can always be traded or offer sheet or anything else. Why worry about Coburn increase.

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06-10-2009, 06:51 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Why do fans worry about Coburn and now Giroux? We have to re-sign Cobrun, we have to, we have to do it. Coburn did not do anything to deserve 4M a year, he should get similar contract to Edler or Suter plus Coburn can always be traded or offer sheet or anything else. Why worry about Coburn increase.
Because, for once, we want Homer to think about the long-term ramifications of giving out large contracts now.

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06-10-2009, 07:09 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
Why do fans worry about Coburn and now Giroux? We have to re-sign Cobrun, we have to, we have to do it. Coburn did not do anything to deserve 4M a year, he should get similar contract to Edler or Suter plus Coburn can always be traded or offer sheet or anything else. Why worry about Coburn increase.
i guess you're right in saying that coburn won't deserve to get $4 million/yr and should get suter/edler money in the mid-3 millions, but if i'm braydon and i look over and see matt carle's getting 3.4, why shouldn't i get 4? i know carle's deal wasn't with holmgren, but it's not that unreasonable given the contracts that have been handed out (jones), plus the fact that he plays a ton of minutes and in every situation. coburn will be a RFA, so that might work in our favor, but he will almost definitely get at least 3.25. i expect him to get more.

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06-10-2009, 07:14 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
i guess you're right in saying that coburn won't deserve to get $4 million/yr and should get suter/edler money in the mid-3 millions, but if i'm braydon and i look over and see matt carle's getting 3.4, why shouldn't i get 4? i know carle's deal wasn't with holmgren, but it's not that unreasonable given the contracts that have been handed out (jones), plus the fact that he plays a ton of minutes and in every situation. coburn will be a RFA, so that might work in our favor, but he will almost definitely get at least 3.25. i expect him to get more.
You know if we do go after Bouwmeester and sign him...what makes you think any of this matters. If we sign JayBo I'm really hoping Carle's on his way out anyway.

Hell if Coburn wants to get a new deal that's unreasonable for the Flyers when JayBo is signed would anyone have a problem moving him?

I love Coburn as much as the next guy but we have Sbisa, Parent, Marshall, and possibly Bodrov in the wings. We'd also have Bouwmeester and Timonen. Maybe even Carle is still here.

Coburn at that point becomes expendable if he wants upwards of $4m in a declining cap.

We'd be able to get a pretty nice return on him as well.

Bouwmeester > Coburn

Obviously I want Coburn to stay which is kinda of why I want Carle out if we get someone like Bouwmeester.

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06-10-2009, 07:37 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
You know if we do go after Bouwmeester and sign him...what makes you think any of this matters. If we sign JayBo I'm really hoping Carle's on his way out anyway.

Hell if Coburn wants to get a new deal that's unreasonable for the Flyers when JayBo is signed would anyone have a problem moving him?

I love Coburn as much as the next guy but we have Sbisa, Parent, Marshall, and possibly Bodrov in the wings. We'd also have Bouwmeester and Timonen. Maybe even Carle is still here.

Coburn at that point becomes expendable if he wants upwards of $4m in a declining cap.

We'd be able to get a pretty nice return on him as well.

Bouwmeester > Coburn

Obviously I want Coburn to stay which is kinda of why I want Carle out if we get someone like Bouwmeester.
yea, i know what you're saying, i was just talking about coburn's worth (in general) compared to carle's. i suppose it would be possible for the flyers to keep their D for this coming year and get bouwmeester. something like kimmo, jbo, parent, carle, coburn, 6th D (sbisa). then when next year comes around, carle's salary can be used to pay for coburn's raise and a little bit for parent's raise. it's easier said than done, but i guess it could happen. that would be a pretty damn good defense to play in front of emery.

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06-10-2009, 07:40 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
i guess you're right in saying that coburn won't deserve to get $4 million/yr and should get suter/edler money in the mid-3 millions, but if i'm braydon and i look over and see matt carle's getting 3.4, why shouldn't i get 4? i know carle's deal wasn't with holmgren, but it's not that unreasonable given the contracts that have been handed out (jones), plus the fact that he plays a ton of minutes and in every situation. coburn will be a RFA, so that might work in our favor, but he will almost definitely get at least 3.25. i expect him to get more.
Well look at Kronwall, he plays a tons of minutes and his contract is 3M a year. He is a star d-men Coburn is not. Not yet anyway.

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06-10-2009, 07:40 PM
  #182
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Kronwall is good. Wouldn't label him a star just yet. I'd put him on the same level as Carle...decent 4-5 guy.

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06-10-2009, 07:49 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
You know if we do go after Bouwmeester and sign him...what makes you think any of this matters. If we sign JayBo I'm really hoping Carle's on his way out anyway.

Hell if Coburn wants to get a new deal that's unreasonable for the Flyers when JayBo is signed would anyone have a problem moving him?

I love Coburn as much as the next guy but we have Sbisa, Parent, Marshall, and possibly Bodrov in the wings. We'd also have Bouwmeester and Timonen. Maybe even Carle is still here.

Coburn at that point becomes expendable if he wants upwards of $4m in a declining cap.

We'd be able to get a pretty nice return on him as well.

Bouwmeester > Coburn

Obviously I want Coburn to stay which is kinda of why I want Carle out if we get someone like Bouwmeester.
I brought up how I'd be ok with losing Coburn if we got JBo as well. Jay is a baller and a clear upgrade for this team.

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06-10-2009, 07:52 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
yea, i know what you're saying, i was just talking about coburn's worth (in general) compared to carle's. i suppose it would be possible for the flyers to keep their D for this coming year and get bouwmeester. something like kimmo, jbo, parent, carle, coburn, 6th D (sbisa). then when next year comes around, carle's salary can be used to pay for coburn's raise and a little bit for parent's raise. it's easier said than done, but i guess it could happen. that would be a pretty damn good defense to play in front of emery.
That's kind of what I'm hoping for. And I expect Gagne's salary to go towards Carter and Giroux. While I'd rather keep Gagne and drop Briere it's going to be tough in the upcoming years.

This year though we can kind of have our cake and eat it too. I think that's what the Flyers organization is going for.

If we do have Emery and Backlund in net:

Gagne (5.25) - Giroux (0.82) - Knuble (2.00)
Hartnell (4.20) - Carter (5.00) - Briere (6.50)
Carcillo (0.89) - Richards (5.75) - Lupul (4.25)
Cote (0.55) - Powe (0.52) - Asham (0.64)

Timonen (6.33) - Parent (0.86)
Bouwmeester (6.50) - Coburn (1.30)
Carle (3.44) - Sbisa (0.88)

Emery (1.50)
Backlund (0.80)

Total: 57.98

So trade Carle and sign a cheaper stay at home defenseman for a season.

We can deal with next year's offseason next offseason. Likely Lupul and Carle are the two first on the way out next year anyway.

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06-10-2009, 07:52 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Kronwall is good. Wouldn't label him a star just yet. I'd put him on the same level as Carle...decent 4-5 guy.
I'd take Kronwall over Carle any day of the week.

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06-10-2009, 08:18 PM
  #186
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I said it before but I'm going to say it again: am I the only one thinking Gagne would take a pay cut just to stay around?

This team's nearly been his entire life.

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06-10-2009, 08:47 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
That's kind of what I'm hoping for. And I expect Gagne's salary to go towards Carter and Giroux. While I'd rather keep Gagne and drop Briere it's going to be tough in the upcoming years.

This year though we can kind of have our cake and eat it too. I think that's what the Flyers organization is going for.

If we do have Emery and Backlund in net:

Gagne (5.25) - Giroux (0.82) - Knuble (2.00)
Hartnell (4.20) - Carter (5.00) - Briere (6.50)
Carcillo (0.89) - Richards (5.75) - Lupul (4.25)
Cote (0.55) - Powe (0.52) - Asham (0.64)

Timonen (6.33) - Parent (0.86)
Bouwmeester (6.50) - Coburn (1.30)
Carle (3.44) - Sbisa (0.88)

Emery (1.50)
Backlund (0.80)

Total: 57.98

So trade Carle and sign a cheaper stay at home defenseman for a season.

We can deal with next year's offseason next offseason. Likely Lupul and Carle are the two first on the way out next year anyway.
yea, maybe they are gonna put all their eggs in one basket. thing is, that next offseason could be gruesome just because of the **** that'll have to go down. i understand the win now mentality, but it's not a very smart business move just b/c the flyers' chances of winning are pretty much the same as everyone else's.

i'll say this about that lineup you've got: that D looks very good. still no faceoff specialist, though, which is cause for alarm, i think, since that was such a big problem for us. i guess we'd have to bank on carter/richards/giroux getting that much better. stacked team, gotta admit.

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06-10-2009, 08:49 PM
  #188
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What are the chances Knuble signs a contract with incentives?

Say a base salary of .800, and then 1 million for 15 goals, 2 million for 20 goals, 3 million for 20+ goals and 50 or more points.

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06-10-2009, 09:07 PM
  #189
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also, i looked at salaries and thought about the future. for ***** and giggles, i traded briere (i know, easier said than done, but humor me), shed lupul and carle, gave coburn 4, bouwmeester 6.5, parent 1.2, powe 900K. bouwmeester might get more and coburn might get less, but i still think there won't be too much of a difference. i have us going into the 2010-2011 season with the following players:

gagne(5.25)-richards(5.75)-giroux(.821)
hartnell(4.2)-carter(5)-JVR (1.7)
powe(.9)

timonen(6.33)-coburn(4)
parent(1.2)-bouwmeester(6.5)
sbisa(.88)

that's 7 forwards, 5 dmen, no goalies. hell, you can even add backlund in at .8, that's fine. all together, that's 43.33. we'd need a goalie (preferably a starter), 5 forwards, and 1 dman to complete the roster. that means finding 7 NHLers for under 1 million each, assuming the cap goes to $50 million like people think it will. if the flyers wanna go this route, there's nothing i can do about it, but it still seems like we'd be gutting our team.

salarywise, we also need to take into account the fact that we WILL be taking salary back in trading briere/lupul/carle. trading briere, let's say, to bring in bouwmeester will actually make us spend more money rather than have a one-for-one swap. it's gonna get really tricky.

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06-10-2009, 09:47 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Kronwall is good. Wouldn't label him a star just yet. I'd put him on the same level as Carle...decent 4-5 guy.
Ok, maybe not a star but much better then Carle. No comparison

Olympic gold, SC maybe even 2 (we’ll find out this Friday), excellent playoff performance which is more important that regular season. Yes, he is not a go to guy but he is physical he plays good D and in terms of PPG in playoffs it's there. So yes, he makes 3M a year for next 3-4 years. Coburn somehow deserves more $? Why? Based on what? Jones or Carles contracts?

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06-11-2009, 04:51 AM
  #191
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Kronwall scores considerably more than Carle, and is a big hitter (something Carle can't even spell). This isn't even that close IMO. I'd take Kronwall all day long over Carle.

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06-11-2009, 07:09 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by twenty2 View Post
That's kind of what I'm hoping for. And I expect Gagne's salary to go towards Carter and Giroux. While I'd rather keep Gagne and drop Briere it's going to be tough in the upcoming years.

This year though we can kind of have our cake and eat it too. I think that's what the Flyers organization is going for.

If we do have Emery and Backlund in net:

Gagne (5.25) - Giroux (0.82) - Knuble (2.00)
Hartnell (4.20) - Carter (5.00) - Briere (6.50)
Carcillo (0.89) - Richards (5.75) - Lupul (4.25)
Cote (0.55) - Powe (0.52) - Asham (0.64)

Timonen (6.33) - Parent (0.86)
Bouwmeester (6.50) - Coburn (1.30)
Carle (3.44) - Sbisa (0.88)

Emery (1.50)
Backlund (0.80)

Total: 57.98

So trade Carle and sign a cheaper stay at home defenseman for a season.

We can deal with next year's offseason next offseason. Likely Lupul and Carle are the two first on the way out next year anyway.
That team looks terrifying. If emery can pull his game together and grind us out a season of decent performances that team wins the flyers the cup. No doubt. There are going to be allot of dissapointed fans though when Jay bo doesn't sign with the flyers organisation. We will be needing to look for a different leader for the second pairing in defense.

Whats really scary is this. Goal totals/points or what i've judged them to be anyhow


Gagne (35/75) - Giroux (25/80) - Knuble (25/50)
Hartnell (30/65) - Carter (45/80) - Briere (30/85)
Carcillo (15/40) - Richards (30/85) - Lupul (30/60)
Cote (0/0) - Powe (5/10) - Asham (5/10)

That of course excludes injuries to players.
Timonen (5/50) - Parent (0/20)
Bouwmeester (10/50) - Coburn (10/35)
Carle (5/25) - Sbisa (5/25)

emery(1/3)
backlund(10/90)

Even without backlund getting the full 90 points and 10 goals, i think the team has some awesome firepower. If we went into the season with this as our starting line up. I would **** in my pants

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06-11-2009, 07:49 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by chimrichalds18 View Post
also, i looked at salaries and thought about the future. for ***** and giggles, i traded briere (i know, easier said than done, but humor me), shed lupul and carle, gave coburn 4, bouwmeester 6.5, parent 1.2, powe 900K. bouwmeester might get more and coburn might get less, but i still think there won't be too much of a difference. i have us going into the 2010-2011 season with the following players:

gagne(5.25)-richards(5.75)-giroux(.821)
hartnell(4.2)-carter(5)-JVR (1.7)
powe(.9)

timonen(6.33)-coburn(4)
parent(1.2)-bouwmeester(6.5)
sbisa(.88)

that's 7 forwards, 5 dmen, no goalies. hell, you can even add backlund in at .8, that's fine. all together, that's 43.33. we'd need a goalie (preferably a starter), 5 forwards, and 1 dman to complete the roster. that means finding 7 NHLers for under 1 million each, assuming the cap goes to $50 million like people think it will. if the flyers wanna go this route, there's nothing i can do about it, but it still seems like we'd be gutting our team.

salarywise, we also need to take into account the fact that we WILL be taking salary back in trading briere/lupul/carle. trading briere, let's say, to bring in bouwmeester will actually make us spend more money rather than have a one-for-one swap. it's gonna get really tricky.
You cross that bridge when you get to it. You don't know what the cap will be.

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06-11-2009, 08:57 AM
  #194
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"Upbeat" can have varying definitions in this instance but Knuble is mentioned as is Niitty:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...efenseman.html
Quote:

Holmgren seemed upbeat about the possibility of re-signing potential free-agent Mike Knuble….Holmgren also said Antero Niittymaki’s hip injury is not as bad as first feared. There is still a chance that Nitty, a potential free agent, will re-sign with the Flyers and be Emery’s backup...

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06-11-2009, 09:07 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
"Upbeat" can have varying definitions in this instance but Knuble is mentioned as is Niitty:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...efenseman.html
I do not think I can handle another year of Mike Knuble. Those slow starts, that “speed” those “timely” penalties, so called leadership qualities. What leadership qualities, I ain't got a clue. Someone please explain it to me. Flyers will be paying money for a PP guy. ”Screen goalie” Mike Knuble and his 2.5M a year.

I am ok with Frank if his hip is ok.

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06-11-2009, 09:19 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Kaktus View Post
I do not think I can handle another year of Mike Knuble. Those slow starts, that “speed” those “timely” penalties, so called leadership qualities. What leadership qualities, I ain't got a clue. Someone please explain it to me. Flyers will be paying money for a PP guy. ”Screen goalie” Mike Knuble and his 2.5M a year.

I am ok with Frank if his hip is ok.
that's really my biggest problem with him. for the last couple of years, he's been horrible out of the gates. now, if he can come into the season in shape and ready to go, i'd be fine with it. no point in rushing JVR if you've got someone like knuble who can still play.

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06-11-2009, 09:19 AM
  #197
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Sugar Ray and Frank Niitty. I like it.

With a young group, it would be great to see Knuble back as well. This team lacks some veteran presence.

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06-11-2009, 09:32 AM
  #198
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Kronwall is good. Wouldn't label him a star just yet. I'd put him on the same level as Carle...decent 4-5 guy.
Kronwall is way, way better than Carle. He is one of the best 2nd pairing defensemen in the league. He's wayyyy better than a decent number 5

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06-11-2009, 09:48 AM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
"Upbeat" can have varying definitions in this instance but Knuble is mentioned as is Niitty:

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...efenseman.html
I'd be fine with Nitty coming back, but if he gets another raise I'll be ****ing furious. Dude needs to get paid like the cheap back-up he is.

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06-11-2009, 09:50 AM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmchairGM View Post
What are the chances Knuble signs a contract with incentives?

Say a base salary of .800, and then 1 million for 15 goals, 2 million for 20 goals, 3 million for 20+ goals and 50 or more points.
I can see Knuble sticking around. I'd love to have him back. Like Opus just said, this team lacks vet presence. We need him around the locker room.

I'd like to see Niitty back as our number 2. He's a solid backup.

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