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Old
07-12-2010, 09:27 PM
  #76
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http://www.icethetics.info/blog/2010...o-larceny.html

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07-13-2010, 10:14 AM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfosterftw View Post
Well, that article doesn't really help Mike Ivall's cause.

The incidents with the Maplesoft Hawks, Chi-City Tees look like exact copies, also the Chi-City Tees do use the logo for the Blackhawks merchandise so the Hawks may be interested in Chi-City Tees as well . MNM Hockey has some differences, also I don't believe they are actually selling it, just using a similar but fairly different logo as an idea/example of what the company does-so that's a non-issue. Compared with the others, the Port Huron logo has the most differences from the original. The beak does look exact copy but ideas can be copied/used so if the artist of the PH logo changes some of the beak, then I think the two logos would be different enough to avoid copyright issues.


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07-14-2010, 08:20 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by sbkbghockey View Post
Well, that article doesn't really help Mike Ivall's cause.

The incidents with the Maplesoft Hawks, Chi-City Tees look like exact copies,
Mike has previously reached an agreement with Maplesoft that allows them to use the logo.

Quote:
Compared with the others, the Port Huron logo has the most differences from the original. The beak does look exact copy but ideas can be copied/used so if the artist of the PH logo changes some of the beak, then I think the two logos would be different enough to avoid copyright issues.
Wow, really? So I can take some popular work of writing, say, Sizzling Sixteen, by Janet Evanovich (since my wife is a big fan), change a few names around, rearrange some paragraphs or lightly tweak the storyline, and sell it as my own work without fear of repercussion?

Yeah, I thought not. Copyrighted images are no different.

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07-14-2010, 02:26 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfosterftw View Post
Mike has previously reached an agreement with Maplesoft that allows them to use the logo.



Wow, really? So I can take some popular work of writing, say, Sizzling Sixteen, by Janet Evanovich (since my wife is a big fan), change a few names around, rearrange some paragraphs or lightly tweak the storyline, and sell it as my own work without fear of repercussion?

Yeah, I thought not. Copyrighted images are no different.
You don't even have to change a few names- you can copy everything from the book if you satire it. Simpsons and Family Guy do it lots. I haven't read that book or know anything about it but you could write another book with the same plot. (ie. PH logo with the same idea). Have you ever noticed most movies of the same genre have a predicatble plot?

Having similar logos happens all the time, a couple I can think of off the top of my head:

Port Huron, Mike's logo, Chicago Blackhawks, Portland Winterhawks, Boston Blackhawks Jr. team, etc...

Grand Valley State Univ., Peoria Rivermen.

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07-15-2010, 07:18 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbkbghockey View Post
You don't even have to change a few names- you can copy everything from the book if you satire it. Simpsons and Family Guy do it lots. I haven't read that book or know anything about it but you could write another book with the same plot. (ie. PH logo with the same idea). Have you ever noticed most movies of the same genre have a predicatble plot?
Different issue - satire and parody are clearly protected under Fair Use.

Quote:
Having similar logos happens all the time, a couple I can think of off the top of my head:

Port Huron, Mike's logo, Chicago Blackhawks, Portland Winterhawks, Boston Blackhawks Jr. team, etc...
You can toss in the earlier and in some regards current versions of the North Dakota Fighting Sioux, plus the former Soo Indians. An argument can be made that Chicago has not done enough to protect their mark over the decades.

Quote:
Grand Valley State Univ., Peoria Rivermen.
Look again... same nautical theme (Lakers vs. Rivermen), different logos. The Lakers' is a full profile and the Rivermen is 3/4ths profile, and they don't share the same lines. That's like comparing every bird logo and saying it's the same thing.

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07-15-2010, 08:01 PM
  #81
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Looks like Port Huron is getting a new logo...

http://www.thetimesherald.com/apps/p...Id=personaDest

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08-05-2010, 02:08 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfosterftw View Post
Looks like Port Huron is getting a new logo...

http://www.thetimesherald.com/apps/p...Id=personaDest




Last edited by starsfan24: 08-07-2010 at 12:55 PM.
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Old
08-13-2010, 12:39 PM
  #83
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Junior hockey is continuing to grow in the United States I would love to see these cities get a USHL franchise!

1. Kansas City Metropolitan Area [2 Million]
2. Greeley, Colorado [80,000]
3. Quincy, Illinois [47,000]
4. Eau Claire, Wisconsin [65,000]
4. Burnsville, Minnesota [61,000]

I do believe that Minnesota could have a USHL team even with High school league and the Junior league. But if that doesn't work, Eau Claire could support a team too.


After that I think we could support divisions,

West Conference
Western
1. Lincoln Stars
2. Tri-City Storm
3. Kansas City [New]
4. Greeley [New]
5. Omaha Lancers

Great Plains
1. Eau Claire or Burnsville [New]
2. Fargo Force
3. Sioux City Musketeers
4. Sioux Falls Stampede
5. Des Moines Buccaneers

Eastern Conference
Central
1. Quincy [New]
2. Waterloo Black Hawks
3. Cedar Rapids RoughRiders
4. Dubuque Fighting Saints
5. Chicago Steel

Great Lakes
1. Green Bay Gamblers
2. Indiana Ice
3. Youngstown Phantoms
4. Muskegon Lumberjacks
5. USA NTDP


USHL MAP for reference

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Old
08-14-2010, 06:27 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
Junior hockey is continuing to grow in the United States I would love to see these cities get a USHL franchise!

1. Kansas City Metropolitan Area [2 Million]
2. Greeley, Colorado [80,000]
3. Quincy, Illinois [47,000]
4. Eau Claire, Wisconsin [65,000]
4. Burnsville, Minnesota [61,000]

I do believe that Minnesota could have a USHL team even with High school league and the Junior league. But if that doesn't work, Eau Claire could support a team too.
When considering expansion, there are several factors that one needs to consider. Market size, venue availability, and proximity are key. Your market sizes are largely underestimated because you're using central city, and not MSA (except for KC).

1. Kansas City Metropolitan Area [2 Million]
2. Greeley, Colorado [255,000]
3. Quincy, Illinois [77,000]
4. Eau Claire, Wisconsin [160,000]
4. Burnsville, Minnesota [61,000] (part of M-SP MSA)

Several of these markets are lacking a venue. In the case of KC and Greeley, it's because the best/only arena already hosts a CHL team. There are nice new(er) arenas in both Independence, MO and Windsor, CO, but they were built by the CHL for the CHL. The Colorado Eagles have seven consecutive seasons of sellouts, so they aren't going anywhere, and I'd consider their proximity an issue. The Missouri Mavericks just completed their first season and did okay at the gate, but were the team to fail I'd be hesitant to jump in right away, especially in a non-traditional market where juniors would be be compared to "high school" hockey.

Eau Claire has an NCAA D3 team. I'm not sure it's worth going up against it unless you can get a local owner to spend a lot of time & effort promoting the idea in the community.

Quincy is a little small, IMO, and lacks a suitable venue. If it's Illinois you are targeting I'd look at Bloomington a few years after the PrairieThunder complete their inevitable collapse.

As for Burnsville, I like the idea of a suburban Twin Cities team. It adds a large market and lots of potential exposure for league-wide corporate sponsors. But I think we're back to the venue issue. Warner Coliseum in the Fairgrounds might be more suitable. It seats 5,785, but based on pictures I've seen lacks some modern features that would generate additional revenue streams.

As far as other possibilities go, I'd consider:

Wausau, WI
Rochester, MN
Topeka, KS
Waukesha, WI
Lake County, IL (North Chicago)
Evansville, IN

Rochester and Topeka are former league properties that might succeed within the context of a stronger league.

Lake County is removed enough from the rest of greater Chicago to support their own team, and has an excellent demographic to draw from.

Wausau has been on the radar for years but needs an arena. Unfortunately their last major proponent died a year or two ago, and the effort probably went with him.

Evansville has a new arena under construction, and the USHL is already on the record stating they want to go in there. A poorly-managed CHL team is playing in the rec arena there in an attempt to get first-mover advantage, but it's no sure thing they'll get the new arena lease.

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Old
08-15-2010, 02:29 AM
  #85
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I wouldnt mind the Lake County IL area getting a team as the area is very well funded and is indeed far enough away to support itself... I really like the Hoffman Estates arena that was built a few years back, I would love to see a USHL team play there, though it is pretty darn big.

I also like the Naperville/Hinsdale area in Illinois. Though Bensenville is close by (where the Steel play), that Naperville area is huge and is upwards of 100,000 people plus alone....

if the USHL was was looking to expand again in Chicago, I would throw in Orland Park as well...area has upwards of 90,000 people when you take into consideration the different parts of Orland; Orland Park, Orland Hills, and Tinley Park are all blocks of one another... Plus the ice arena: the Edge is a very sharp place to play at and hosts some great games as is....

just my two cents for Illinois.... Quincy might be to much of a risk imo....

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08-15-2010, 02:33 PM
  #86
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ill be playing on amarillo this year so we'll see what happens.

I've been hearing mixed reviews as far as, the expansion teams won't get any scouting or it will water down the league.

Then ive been hearing its better for the league and because the nahl is actually located in texas that the texas teams will get better scouting.

My coach will be Denis Willams from BGSU so I'm kinda excited that I'll actually have someone who can help me get to college.

What do u guys think about the texas expansion teams?? Good/Bad?

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08-15-2010, 07:48 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfosterftw View Post
When considering expansion, there are several factors that one needs to consider. Market size, venue availability, and proximity are key. Your market sizes are largely underestimated because you're using central city, and not MSA (except for KC).

1. Kansas City Metropolitan Area [2 Million]
2. Greeley, Colorado [255,000]
3. Quincy, Illinois [77,000]
4. Eau Claire, Wisconsin [160,000]
4. Burnsville, Minnesota [61,000] (part of M-SP MSA)

Several of these markets are lacking a venue. In the case of KC and Greeley, it's because the best/only arena already hosts a CHL team. There are nice new(er) arenas in both Independence, MO and Windsor, CO, but they were built by the CHL for the CHL. The Colorado Eagles have seven consecutive seasons of sellouts, so they aren't going anywhere, and I'd consider their proximity an issue. The Missouri Mavericks just completed their first season and did okay at the gate, but were the team to fail I'd be hesitant to jump in right away, especially in a non-traditional market where juniors would be be compared to "high school" hockey.

Eau Claire has an NCAA D3 team. I'm not sure it's worth going up against it unless you can get a local owner to spend a lot of time & effort promoting the idea in the community.

Quincy is a little small, IMO, and lacks a suitable venue. If it's Illinois you are targeting I'd look at Bloomington a few years after the PrairieThunder complete their inevitable collapse.

As for Burnsville, I like the idea of a suburban Twin Cities team. It adds a large market and lots of potential exposure for league-wide corporate sponsors. But I think we're back to the venue issue. Warner Coliseum in the Fairgrounds might be more suitable. It seats 5,785, but based on pictures I've seen lacks some modern features that would generate additional revenue streams.

As far as other possibilities go, I'd consider:

Wausau, WI
Rochester, MN
Topeka, KS
Waukesha, WI
Lake County, IL (North Chicago)
Evansville, IN

Rochester and Topeka are former league properties that might succeed within the context of a stronger league.

Lake County is removed enough from the rest of greater Chicago to support their own team, and has an excellent demographic to draw from.

Wausau has been on the radar for years but needs an arena. Unfortunately their last major proponent died a year or two ago, and the effort probably went with him.

Evansville has a new arena under construction, and the USHL is already on the record stating they want to go in there. A poorly-managed CHL team is playing in the rec arena there in an attempt to get first-mover advantage, but it's no sure thing they'll get the new arena lease.
I totally forgot about the Mavericks, but I believe there is enough population in both the Greeley-Loveland-Fort Collins area [380,000] and Kansas City to support another hockey team. But I do understand your point considering the worst possible outcome.


I knew that Eau Claire had a team, but from what I heard the crowds aren't that good for their games.

I know I consider Bloomington when I created my expansion post, but didn't add due to the fact it was very close to another USHL team. We cannot add Rochester or Topeka because they both have teams playing in different leagues. Rochester plays in the MJHL and Topeka plays in the NAHL. Other then that great choices!

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08-23-2010, 08:39 AM
  #88
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I wouldn't go so far as to predict an "eventual collapse" for the Bloomington Prairie Thunder. They draw fairly well now, and if the Blues end up moving their AHL franchise out of Peoria into either Kansas City or St. Charles, MO (as has been rumored off and on for some time), the PT will draw fans from the Peoria area as well.

I see Bloomington as a good potential ECHL location in the not too distant future, especially if the AHL pulls out of Peoria.

Quincy, I agree, is too small and too remote for a USHL franchise. I'd propose, as an alternative for expansion into downstate Illinois, that a 4000-seat (+/- a few hundred) rink be built in the Gateway area (Collinsville-Edwardsville, between I-270 and I-64 along I-255), perhaps in proximity to the Gateway Grizzlies' Frontier League ballpark, and a USHL expansion team be located there.

An added benefit to this is that a new rink in that area would give SIU-Edwardsville a better facility in which to play, and possibly facilitate a push for a Division I berth at some point in the future. SIU-E is aggressively pursuing Division I status in other sports, so hockey would be a reasonable expectation, and the club team there has enjoyed some success in recent years.

Chicago already has the Steel in Naperville, and while a second USHL franchise in Chicagoland isn't completely out of the question, it seems to me that the USHL could do better by bringing a couple of new markets into the fold.

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09-11-2010, 03:31 PM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfosterftw View Post
When considering expansion, there are several factors that one needs to consider. Market size, venue availability, and proximity are key. Your market sizes are largely underestimated because you're using central city, and not MSA (except for KC).

1. Kansas City Metropolitan Area [2 Million]
2. Greeley, Colorado [255,000]
3. Quincy, Illinois [77,000]
4. Eau Claire, Wisconsin [160,000]
4. Burnsville, Minnesota [61,000] (part of M-SP MSA)

Several of these markets are lacking a venue. In the case of KC and Greeley, it's because the best/only arena already hosts a CHL team. There are nice new(er) arenas in both Independence, MO and Windsor, CO, but they were built by the CHL for the CHL. The Colorado Eagles have seven consecutive seasons of sellouts, so they aren't going anywhere, and I'd consider their proximity an issue. The Missouri Mavericks just completed their first season and did okay at the gate, but were the team to fail I'd be hesitant to jump in right away, especially in a non-traditional market where juniors would be be compared to "high school" hockey.

Eau Claire has an NCAA D3 team. I'm not sure it's worth going up against it unless you can get a local owner to spend a lot of time & effort promoting the idea in the community.

Quincy is a little small, IMO, and lacks a suitable venue. If it's Illinois you are targeting I'd look at Bloomington a few years after the PrairieThunder complete their inevitable collapse.

As for Burnsville, I like the idea of a suburban Twin Cities team. It adds a large market and lots of potential exposure for league-wide corporate sponsors. But I think we're back to the venue issue. Warner Coliseum in the Fairgrounds might be more suitable. It seats 5,785, but based on pictures I've seen lacks some modern features that would generate additional revenue streams.

As far as other possibilities go, I'd consider:

Wausau, WI
Rochester, MN
Topeka, KS
Waukesha, WI
Lake County, IL (North Chicago)
Evansville, IN

Rochester and Topeka are former league properties that might succeed within the context of a stronger league.

Lake County is removed enough from the rest of greater Chicago to support their own team, and has an excellent demographic to draw from.

Wausau has been on the radar for years but needs an arena. Unfortunately their last major proponent died a year or two ago, and the effort probably went with him.

Evansville has a new arena under construction, and the USHL is already on the record stating they want to go in there. A poorly-managed CHL team is playing in the rec arena there in an attempt to get first-mover advantage, but it's no sure thing they'll get the new arena lease.
I'll speak for the markets that I'm pretty familiar with: Rochester, MN and the Twin Cities.

I grew up in Rochester (and thus with the Mustangs). While the hockey community has adopted the Ice Hawks, a very successful team in the MJHL, I'm pretty sure a 3rd iteration of the Mustangs would do quite well given the wild success of a similar business model for the local collegiate summer league team (Rochester Honkers), but the drawback of Rochester is the lack of seating as the largest arena seats just 2,700 making it one of the smaller arenas in the league.

As for the Cities, there's success there too and IMO, a nice alternative to the Wild. As for the arena issue, there's plenty of arenas (albeit small) like the Bloomington Ice Garden (2,500), and Aldrich Arena (3,400) in Maplewood.

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09-11-2010, 04:49 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LcandCompAlum91 View Post
ill be playing on amarillo this year so we'll see what happens.

I've been hearing mixed reviews as far as, the expansion teams won't get any scouting or it will water down the league.

Then ive been hearing its better for the league and because the nahl is actually located in texas that the texas teams will get better scouting.

My coach will be Denis Willams from BGSU so I'm kinda excited that I'll actually have someone who can help me get to college.

What do u guys think about the texas expansion teams?? Good/Bad?
Having some connections to the Rillo area and the Panhandle in general, I say its a great thing. Let's use you as an example: Without the NHL in Florida, how would you have gotten into hockey and then into the 2nd highest junior league based in the US? I wish you the best of luck, and GO BULLS!

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01-11-2011, 10:23 AM
  #91
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Utah

Any thoughts on an expansion to the Utah market? There are good facilities here (post 2002 Olympics).

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01-11-2011, 05:43 PM
  #92
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Expansion

I know of about five / six places in Canada the USHL could expand to (if the hockey was marketed as major junior hockey). The price of a major junior hockey franchise in Canada is inflated & many of these cities are either too far from the other major junior teams, the price tag attached is too high, or in the case of Cornwall, their attempts to attract a team (the then Rocket de MTL) were halted by territorial boundary agreements. Between Sault Ste Marie & Brandon, there exists a void of major junior clubs simply because of the sparse populated areas - aside from Winnipeg, Thunder Bay & smaller cities like Kenora & Dryden...).

Winnipeg (MB) - currently home to the Manitoba Moose AHL franchise. Many of the larger cities in Canada have adopted major junior clubs in their backyard along with their primary professional tenants (Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, MTL...).

Thunder Bay (ON) - currently home to the Lakehead Thunderwolves CIS franchise. The team year in, year out averages 3000+ fans a night. I'd hate to see them leave though (ie. developing northern rival in the CIS with my Lakers).

North Bay (ON) - currently home to the Nipissing Lakers CIS franchise. I wouldn't want them to go either (going nearly a decade without high calibre hockey - after losing the OHL Centennials - was NOT amusing). The team averages between 1800 & 2500 fans a night (on top of competing with the local tier two team for support).

Cornwall (ON) - home to the tier two junior a Cornwall Colts franchise. The community has been after a major junior club (nearly acquiring the Rocket franchise if it were not for CHL territorial boundaries).

Brantford, Chatham-Kent, Timmins would be other areas to look at should an opportunity arise.


Last edited by nosl: 01-11-2011 at 05:49 PM.
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01-12-2011, 01:29 PM
  #93
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A University team is not going to "leave" just because a Jr. team comes to town. They are hardly "franchises". It would be interesting to see how the teams would compete for attendance.

I think the USHL mainly wants to stay in or near its current footprint and stay in the US.

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02-09-2011, 10:38 AM
  #94
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Any thoughts on an expansion to the Utah market? There are good facilities here (post 2002 Olympics).
You're more likely to see an expansion into Kansas before seeing one Utah. For an idea as to why, read here:

http://my.journalstar.com/post/Blue_...p_part_ii.html

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03-07-2011, 03:22 PM
  #95
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Has there been any talk of the NAHL going to San Angelo, TX? CHL team there folded in 2005 and I tried to help bring an NAHL team there. First there was talk of the Santa Fe team moving there, then the Lubbock Cotton Kings of the CHL tried to put a team in San Angelo. Would have happened if not for the city turning it down because they're idiots. Would be a good spot with Odessa, Amarillo, Corpus, Laredo, Wichita Falls etc.

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03-07-2011, 05:58 PM
  #96
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The Owatonna Express are moving to Odessa, nothing on San Antonio though.

http://www.owatonna.com/news.php?viewStory=125096

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03-09-2011, 12:03 AM
  #97
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There is talk of Minot,North Dakota getting a NAHL team. The guy who used to own the Bismarck Bobcats used to own a team in Minot called the Muskies who played in the AWHL for 1 season before buying the Bobcats then sold them to the now owner

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03-09-2011, 08:08 PM
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfosterftw View Post
When considering expansion, there are several factors that one needs to consider. Market size, venue availability, and proximity are key. Your market sizes are largely underestimated because you're using central city, and not MSA (except for KC).

As far as other possibilities go, I'd consider:

Wausau, WI
Rochester, MN
Topeka, KS
Waukesha, WI
Lake County, IL (North Chicago)
Evansville, IN

Rochester and Topeka are former league properties that might succeed within the context of a stronger league.

Lake County is removed enough from the rest of greater Chicago to support their own team, and has an excellent demographic to draw from.

Wausau has been on the radar for years but needs an arena. Unfortunately their last major proponent died a year or two ago, and the effort probably went with him.

Evansville has a new arena under construction, and the USHL is already on the record stating they want to go in there. A poorly-managed CHL team is playing in the rec arena there in an attempt to get first-mover advantage, but it's no sure thing they'll get the new arena lease.
Chicago is getting a third hockey team in the Sears Center nexty season.

Waukesha is between Milwaukee and Madison. A team would be competing against the AHL Admirals and the NCAA powerhouse UW Badgers men's and women's teams. High school hockey has caught fire in southern Wisconsin in the last few years, so a Waukesha team would be competing against Arrowhead HS, who has major sports programs including hockey. A parent gave the money to build the Mullet Center ice arena so the team would have a place to play in the Hartland area.

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04-07-2011, 09:16 AM
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Solly
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Nahl

Any news on NAHL in Colorado Springs ?

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04-07-2011, 02:40 PM
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so far theres nothing yet solly. For sure Minot,ND has a new team. Owatonna will become Odessa Jackalopes and Kalamazoo Jr Wings are a new one. I say the next two yrs there will be more teams.

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