HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Gilroy as late bloomer. (merged)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-13-2009, 01:02 PM
  #26
Jxmarts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 347
vCash: 500
I can't believe how we Ranger fans overestimate our prospects. You'd think we'd know better after all these years. Mike Mottau was a Hobey Baker winner. Thomas Pock was a finalist. "Late bloomers" always have inspiring stories, but they rarely excel in the NHL.

I'm all for giving Gilroy a chance. He earned it. But let's be realistic. We have to remember he played college hockey last season at age 24. How many players have starred in the NHL after playing in college at that age? Can somebody please name just one? Yes, NHL teams will take longshots on undrafted free agents, but to equate him with a first round pick is borderline ridiculous.

Jxmarts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2009, 03:35 PM
  #27
Duponttime*
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
I'll believe he can play when I see it at the NHL level. He's pretty smart on the ice so he has that going for him. However, stopping a bunch of hacks in college is not stopping the best forwards in the world in the NHL.

Duponttime* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2009, 05:27 PM
  #28
Duponttime*
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
I'm not overhyping any prospects. I'm simply talking up prospects that have been very productive at the AHL or OHL level. Big difference than talking about a kid who has played with a face cage in college and is 24. Not to mention was on a completely stacked BC team.

Being optomistic about a kid who had more points in Anisimov than Staal at the same age in the AHL is not hyping him. Talking up a kid in Sanguinetti who had almost 50 points as a 20 year in old in the AHL as a defenseman is not hyping him. Talking up a kid who went 40-40 in the OHL as a 19 year old and is a moose is not hyping him. That's simply looking at the fact that those players were incredibly productive against very good talent. College hockey is not a great stage for talent. Most of the players couldn't even make AHL teams.

Duponttime* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2009, 05:44 PM
  #29
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,561
vCash: 500
The point of the article which a couple people seem to have missed is that human beings sometimes mature towards adulthood differently--that in fact Gilroy's growth was a much more prolonged affair than the average. Hello. I'm sorry I didn't take the time to quote it directly--type the whole thing out. I'm not sure though that BB would approve. So at 18 when other's his draft age having hit puberty at 12-13-14 he has not--he is a forward--he is 5'7". His growth and maturing starts much later. He is 6'2" now. Is he a sure bet top 4 NHL d-man?--Maybe. Maybe not. Does he have some promise to be? Yeah. Personally I'm not as concerned about his age as I was before. That's about what theat article meant for me.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2009, 07:10 PM
  #30
Hockey2000nyr
Registered User
 
Hockey2000nyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 838
vCash: 500
Objective, When Eric Staal played in the AHL, due to the lockout, he was 19 and had 77 points in 77 games played. anisimov this past year was 20 and had 81 points in 80 games. so i wouldnt say he totally outscored Staal

Hockey2000nyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2009, 07:13 PM
  #31
Duponttime*
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 511
vCash: 500
Eric Staal.

Duponttime* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2009, 07:14 PM
  #32
Hockey2000nyr
Registered User
 
Hockey2000nyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 838
vCash: 500
i figured out who you were talking about, check my comment that i edited....

Hockey2000nyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2009, 09:56 PM
  #33
Jxmarts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
The point of the article which a couple people seem to have missed is that human beings sometimes mature towards adulthood differently--that in fact Gilroy's growth was a much more prolonged affair than the average. Hello. I'm sorry I didn't take the time to quote it directly--type the whole thing out. I'm not sure though that BB would approve. So at 18 when other's his draft age having hit puberty at 12-13-14 he has not--he is a forward--he is 5'7". His growth and maturing starts much later. He is 6'2" now. Is he a sure bet top 4 NHL d-man?--Maybe. Maybe not. Does he have some promise to be? Yeah. Personally I'm not as concerned about his age as I was before. That's about what theat article meant for me.
I didn't miss the point. In my previous posts I made sure to mention that it's worth giving him a shot. What I object to is the assumption that he's a first round talent, who's going to step in and lead our power play. Late growth spurt or not, his accomplishments last season came as a 24 year old playing college hockey against 18 thru 21 year olds. You can't take it for granted that his success as a late bloomer will carry over to the NHL because historically it's very rare. But definitely, throw him in the mix in training camp & let the best D-man win.

Jxmarts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-13-2009, 11:09 PM
  #34
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,561
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
I didn't miss the point. In my previous posts I made sure to mention that it's worth giving him a shot. What I object to is the assumption that he's a first round talent, who's going to step in and lead our power play. Late growth spurt or not, his accomplishments last season came as a 24 year old playing college hockey against 18 thru 21 year olds. You can't take it for granted that his success as a late bloomer will carry over to the NHL because historically it's very rare. But definitely, throw him in the mix in training camp & let the best D-man win.
Well that's pretty much where I'm at. Let the best guy win. You'd have to think he is good enough to get at least some NHL games sometime soon but who knows all he may turn out to be is a 5-6-7 d-man. So I don't know if he equates to being a 1st round worthy player either. The thing about his age I think needs to be taken into perspective--at least in respect to how his body has matured. As an 5'7" 18 year old forward your chances are really no chance at all. The issue of his experience playing defense seems where the Pock comparison may be apt but apart from that he's probably a better player.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2009, 01:00 AM
  #35
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,531
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Well that's pretty much where I'm at. Let the best guy win. You'd have to think he is good enough to get at least some NHL games sometime soon but who knows all he may turn out to be is a 5-6-7 d-man. So I don't know if he equates to being a 1st round worthy player either. The thing about his age I think needs to be taken into perspective--at least in respect to how his body has matured. As an 5'7" 18 year old forward your chances are really no chance at all. The issue of his experience playing defense seems where the Pock comparison may be apt but apart from that he's probably a better player.
There is a big difference between the way Pock played and the way Gilroy plays. Gilroy uses his head and has a great knowledge of the game. He brings that forward thinking to defense. I think he will be a steal. Also, even if he becomes a #5 d-man, there are quite a few 1st rounders who never even see the NHL. It was a very good signing.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2009, 01:16 AM
  #36
ChipAyten
NYR-LFC-NYG-NYY
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
Country: England
Posts: 3,831
vCash: 500
I find it how hockey is the only of the 4 big sports where a 24 year old prospect/rookie seems old, compared to drafting players when they're 16-19

ChipAyten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2009, 01:15 PM
  #37
cmdevisser
Registered User
 
cmdevisser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Chesapeake, Va
Country: United States
Posts: 474
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to cmdevisser
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey2000nyr View Post
Objective, When Eric Staal played in the AHL, due to the lockout, he was 19 and had 77 points in 77 games played. anisimov this past year was 20 and had 81 points in 80 games. so i wouldnt say he totally outscored Staal
Anisimov just turned 20 at the end of the season. You could make the argument that Staal was playing against tougher competition because of the lockout, but Anisimov def. outscored him.

cmdevisser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2009, 01:38 PM
  #38
BrandNewDream
Registered User
 
BrandNewDream's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bayonne, NJ
Country: Poland
Posts: 1,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdevisser View Post
Anisimov just turned 20 at the end of the season. You could make the argument that Staal was playing against tougher competition because of the lockout, but Anisimov def. outscored him.
So are we saying that Anisimov will be better than Eric Staal?


BrandNewDream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2009, 01:55 PM
  #39
bigd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,619
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
He was courted by quite a few teams last offseason and he wanted to stay for his senior year and win the national championship because he wanted to help his coach and his teammates who gave him a chance. I think he will be given EVERY opportunity to make the team out of camp. He is physically mature and making quite a bit of money.
Don't believe every thing you read. He came back because all he could get last year was a one year entry level deal which is an automatic two way contract. By waiting a year he could get as high of a contract as teams were willing to pay and more years. The Rangers gave him a one way deal. It's not likely that they will send him to the AHL. If they do he will be one of the mosy highly paid AHL players. He had a great season for BU and for himself. One he will never regret but he is going to be 25 in July so he should be playing pro by now.

bigd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2009, 04:40 PM
  #40
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,533
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandNewDream View Post
So are we saying that Anisimov will be better than Eric Staal?

Uh, where was that said? A lot of people are high on Anisimov, and for good reason.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2009, 06:51 PM
  #41
Hockey2000nyr
Registered User
 
Hockey2000nyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 838
vCash: 500
Anisimov outscored Staal in 3 less games played, and also what makes Staals AHL season better then Anisimov's was the fact that Staal played in the AHL during the lockout, which made the AHL a lot better as a lot of the younger NHLers played in the AHL

Hockey2000nyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2009, 10:28 PM
  #42
Jxmarts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
I find it how hockey is the only of the 4 big sports where a 24 year old prospect/rookie seems old, compared to drafting players when they're 16-19
I don't have a good explanation for it, but it's true. The elite NHL players, drafted at 18, are almost invariably ready to play directly out of junior at age 20, if not sooner. Others need a year or two of seasoning in the minors, but it's imperative that they show quick & steady improvement. If they linger in the minors much longer than that, their chances of becoming NHL regulars drastically diminish. Most players who haven't established themselves by their early 20's will be lucky to stay career minor leaguers or be fringe NHLers at best.

In baseball, it is not uncommon for a prospect to be dismal in the minors for several years and not blossom until his mid-20's. Most baseball players don't peak until their 30's. It's totally different. It might be because hockey is a more physically demanding sport, where stamina & resiliency are paramount. But I really don't know why.

Jxmarts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 12:47 AM
  #43
ChipAyten
NYR-LFC-NYG-NYY
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New York City
Country: England
Posts: 3,831
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jxmarts View Post
I don't have a good explanation for it, but it's true. The elite NHL players, drafted at 18, are almost invariably ready to play directly out of junior at age 20, if not sooner. Others need a year or two of seasoning in the minors, but it's imperative that they show quick & steady improvement. If they linger in the minors much longer than that, their chances of becoming NHL regulars drastically diminish. Most players who haven't established themselves by their early 20's will be lucky to stay career minor leaguers or be fringe NHLers at best.

In baseball, it is not uncommon for a prospect to be dismal in the minors for several years and not blossom until his mid-20's. Most baseball players don't peak until their 30's. It's totally different. It might be because hockey is a more physically demanding sport, where stamina & resiliency are paramount. But I really don't know why.
Hockey is the only of those sports where its players can keep up their play into their late 30's and on some rare cases 40's, you see it a lot more in defenseman. There have been a lot more late 30's and 40 y/o players in the NHL then in the NBA/MLB/NFL. That is due in large part because hockey is a lot easier on the knees. The amount of times your legs have to come in contact with the surface while skating over 200 feet is a lot less than if you were running 200 ft. And in the D-man's case they're skating backwards so it's even that much less stressful to the legs.

ChipAyten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 01:03 AM
  #44
Zil
Registered User
 
Zil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 4,302
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
Hockey is the only of those sports where its players can keep up their play into their late 30's and on some rare cases 40's, you see it a lot more in defenseman. There have been a lot more late 30's and 40 y/o players in the NHL then in the NBA/MLB/NFL. That is due in large part because hockey is a lot easier on the knees. The amount of times your legs have to come in contact with the surface while skating over 200 feet is a lot less than if you were running 200 ft. And in the D-man's case they're skating backwards so it's even that much less stressful to the legs.
Dude there are a ton of guys over 40 in baseball.

Zil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 06:13 AM
  #45
Jxmarts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 347
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipAyten View Post
Hockey is the only of those sports where its players can keep up their play into their late 30's and on some rare cases 40's, you see it a lot more in defenseman. There have been a lot more late 30's and 40 y/o players in the NHL then in the NBA/MLB/NFL. That is due in large part because hockey is a lot easier on the knees. The amount of times your legs have to come in contact with the surface while skating over 200 feet is a lot less than if you were running 200 ft. And in the D-man's case they're skating backwards so it's even that much less stressful to the legs.
Your point is true that a significant percentage of hockey players play into their late 30's. Nevertheless, most of them had established themselves as pros at a very early age.

My point is that the "make or break years" for hockey players almost always are no later than their early 20's. Most elite NHL players play straight out of junior, and the rest make it to the NHL with a year or two in the minors at most. Players who mire in the minors longer than that (Greg Moore, P.A.Parenteau, Corey Potter, Hugh Jessiman, Alex Bourret, Bruce Graham, etc.) are unlikely to ever become more than fringe NHLers, if that. Even younger players, like Tom Pyatt, Tomas Zaborsky, Brodie Dupont & Ryan Hillier, who are each no more than 22, had better display significant progress this season if they have any hope of realizing their NHL dreams.

If these guys were baseball players instead, it would not be until they were well past their mid-20's until they were no longer considered major league prospects. Basketball players too sometimes take several years to reach their potential as pros.

Jxmarts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2009, 07:28 AM
  #46
NJrocket24
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: NJ
Country: Ireland
Posts: 286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by youarentobjective View Post
I'm not overhyping any prospects. I'm simply talking up prospects that have been very productive at the AHL or OHL level. Big difference than talking about a kid who has played with a face cage in college and is 24. Not to mention was on a completely stacked BC team.

Being optomistic about a kid who had more points in Anisimov than Staal at the same age in the AHL is not hyping him. Talking up a kid in Sanguinetti who had almost 50 points as a 20 year in old in the AHL as a defenseman is not hyping him. Talking up a kid who went 40-40 in the OHL as a 19 year old and is a moose is not hyping him. That's simply looking at the fact that those players were incredibly productive against very good talent. College hockey is not a great stage for talent. Most of the players couldn't even make AHL teams.
Don't even go there, because i don't think you you want to see a list of high scoring CHLers that didn't do a thing in the ECHL let alone NHL.

NJrocket24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2009, 12:01 AM
  #47
Jimmy Collins
Registered User
 
Jimmy Collins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Saratoga, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 75
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Jimmy Collins
Gilroy

What are we expecting from this guy? Will he be able to make the jump immediately? Andd hypothetically, where would he have gone in the draft if he went this year?

Jimmy Collins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2009, 12:08 AM
  #48
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 16,154
vCash: 500
there are threads about Gilroy. check them out.

broadwayblue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2009, 12:16 AM
  #49
Ian
Mike York fan club
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,649
vCash: 500
Sound 3rd pairing d with upside, ideally, and if I had to take a shot in the dark I'd probably say late 2nd to mid 3rd, hard to really guess though.

Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2009, 12:28 AM
  #50
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,531
vCash: 500
If he was say 19 I dont think it would be out of question to see him up there in the 1st round hower he is not. I am hoping to see him on the 3rd pairing this upcoming season and hopefully he can develop into a 2nd pairing guy but it all depends on how his game transitions.

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:00 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.