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Rumor: Pronger to Kings for Johnson + 5th overall

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Old
06-12-2009, 07:28 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
That's worse than the Johnson & 5th overall.

Does anyone else hate the idea of receiving Jack Johnson?? Apparently he's asking for $5 million a year. What has he one in the NHL to even get $1.5 million a year, let alone $5???
yup it was the 5th pick that made the deal juicy, maybe we can swap 15 and 5....

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06-12-2009, 07:39 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justheducks View Post
Update

To Kings-
Pronger
Drew Miller
4th rounder

To Ducks-
Johnson
Frolov
5th rounder

This is a real trade situation and not just a rumor, it is on the table.
We'll see what happens though!
Nothing will happen until tomorrow either way because Bettman would rip the Kings and Ducks a new one if they did it the day of the game 7 of the finals.
Do you have a source on that one?

I wouldn't mind having the 5th pick, but Spector's pretty much shot that rumor down. As long as we get rid of Pronger (was never a fan) and get a decent return, I would be very happy.

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06-12-2009, 07:39 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
That's worse than the Johnson & 5th overall rumor. I'd definately do Frolov & the 5th overall & a later pick for Pronger, a 4th and Miller though.

Does anyone else hate the idea of receiving Jack Johnson?? Apparently he's asking for $5 million a year. What has he one in the NHL to even get $1.5 million a year, let alone $5???
What has he done? Daddy agent has threatened to go to the KHL. He probably could get 2-2.5 for just pure hype/name there.

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06-12-2009, 07:54 PM
  #54
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If the original trade goes through (Johnson + 5th OA), who volunteers to propose Johnson + 5th for Briere, Marshall, conditional 1st on the trade board?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
That's worse than the Johnson & 5th overall rumor. I'd definately do Frolov & the 5th overall & a later pick for Pronger, a 4th and Miller though.

Does anyone else hate the idea of receiving Jack Johnson?? Apparently he's asking for $5 million a year. What has he one in the NHL to even get $1.5 million a year, let alone $5???
On one hand, he's probably just starting high because that's what you do in negotiations. But that's like 3-4 million a year too high. There's starting high, and then there's pricing yourself out of amicable negotiations.


BUT... some dude on the Kings board who claims to be one of his close friends says he's not asking for 5 million. Kings fans seem to think he's legit.

edit: I'm getting things mixed up again. here's the thread with the guy who claims to be his friend: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=643854

there was some other article about the 5 million, don't remember what it was.


double edit: oh and BTW. If a trade in the style of the original rumor goes through (Pronger for Johnson + pick), then Teemu might retire. That's more of a rebuilding type trade. However Pronger for Johnson + Frolov might keep Teemu, as Frolov would be a big now piece.


Last edited by snarktacular: 06-12-2009 at 08:08 PM.
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06-12-2009, 10:27 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justheducks View Post
Update

To Kings-
Pronger
Drew Miller
4th rounder

To Ducks-
Johnson
Frolov
5th rounder

This is a real trade situation and not just a rumor, it is on the table.
We'll see what happens though!
Nothing will happen until tomorrow either way because Bettman would rip the Kings and Ducks a new one if they did it the day of the game 7 of the finals.
Hey guys, I think it's a 5th round pick not THE 5th pick if I'm reading it right.

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06-12-2009, 11:20 PM
  #56
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Am I the only one that doesn't want JJ? If Nieds doesn't come back and we trade Pronger for JJ, who is going to mentor this kid? Beauchemin? And the thought of having such a major trade with a division rival is not pleasant to me. I'd rather trade Pronger as far away as I can.

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06-12-2009, 11:22 PM
  #57
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Are there any teams out there on the verge of contending that actually have cap space next year?

I just don't see the Kings doing this deal because with Pronger only signed for 1 year, it gives them a very small window to win while giving up a decent amount.

That being said they do have a lot of prospects already and Lombardi loves to trade away RFAs and Niedermayer is supposed to have a decision made by June 14th.

A lot of this makes sense but a lot of it doesn't also.

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06-12-2009, 11:27 PM
  #58
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No I think almost every contender would have to move salary to get Pronger.

The most logical partner I found was Philly, moving 2 high priced guys (Carle + Gagne).

I imagine the only way this deal happens is if Pronger agrees to an extension... that could be the holdup...

But to be honest, I wouldn't be suprised if this rumor is put out by the Kings. I imagine they are being very aggressive in the offseason and they may "leaked" this to try and leverage a better deal in Tampa for Vinny or Ottawa for Heatley.

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06-12-2009, 11:36 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLau View Post
Am I the only one that doesn't want JJ? If Nieds doesn't come back and we trade Pronger for JJ, who is going to mentor this kid? Beauchemin? And the thought of having such a major trade with a division rival is not pleasant to me. I'd rather trade Pronger as far away as I can.
I don't really want the Ducks to have anything to do with him either. Especially if he has major attitude problems.

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06-12-2009, 11:40 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iLau View Post
Am I the only one that doesn't want JJ? If Nieds doesn't come back and we trade Pronger for JJ, who is going to mentor this kid? Beauchemin? And the thought of having such a major trade with a division rival is not pleasant to me. I'd rather trade Pronger as far away as I can.
If Nieds doesn't come back, Pronger won't be traded.

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06-12-2009, 11:41 PM
  #61
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The 5th overall pick sure sounds nice, but I really don't like JJ especially considering the attitude. Think he is kind of overrated anyway.

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06-13-2009, 12:01 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
I don't really want the Ducks to have anything to do with him either. Especially if he has major attitude problems.
I'm somewhat in agreement. His attitude is what turns me off. Sure he has huge upside and potential, and if he's able to develop that we'll have an awesome blueline down the line, but who's to say that he won't demand a trade in a few years? He did it with Carolina (without even playing a game for them), and it seems like he's doing it with LA now. Plus the stories of his dad contacting KHL teams doesn't sit well with me either. I don't like the headaches he could end up causing us.

The fifth is really nice, but I see some potential problems with Johnson down the line.

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06-13-2009, 01:16 AM
  #63
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Both the Ducks and Kings have denied this rumor as false.

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06-13-2009, 01:20 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Mooseduck View Post
Both the Ducks and Kings have denied this rumor as false.

On the day of game 7 of the SCF what would you expect them to do? It would be poor taste to annouce a trade as major as this would be. The league probably wouldn't be happy about websites reporting it as fact also, the only option would be to deny it, true or not.

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06-13-2009, 01:22 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by 190Octane View Post
On the day of game 7 of the SCF what would you expect them to do? It would be poor taste to annouce a trade as major as this would be. The league probably wouldn't be happy about websites reporting it as fact also, the only option would be to deny it, true or not.
Yeah but if it were real Bob McKenzie would have something by now

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06-13-2009, 02:56 AM
  #66
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Yeah but if it were real Bob McKenzie would have something by now
This isn't true at all. Maybe it isn't happening, maybe it is, but this isn't all that relevent. It just means that TSN's sources haven't heard anything yet. Maybe that is a telling sign to some that no deal is happening, but to me it's not.

Also, one must notice how outlets such as The Score reported it as a done deal, not a rumor or anything else. I definitely think something's going on here. IIRC The Score found out about the Luongo-Bertuzzi trade well before anyone else too.

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06-13-2009, 09:18 AM
  #67
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Here's a crazy conspiracy theory. Maybe one of the teams needs to lay off people. Maybe they also don't like rumors being leaked. So that team gave the info to only a few people to try to find the leak.

I just don't understand why all the involved parties would deny it like that. The "it's real but they just don't want it to upstage the finals" line of reasoning just doesn't make sense to me. By acknowledging the rumors, it seems to give it more attention. And then what are they going to do when the trade actually goes through? How are they going to explain that?

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06-13-2009, 10:21 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
Here's a crazy conspiracy theory. Maybe one of the teams needs to lay off people. Maybe they also don't like rumors being leaked. So that team gave the info to only a few people to try to find the leak.

I just don't understand why all the involved parties would deny it like that. The "it's real but they just don't want it to upstage the finals" line of reasoning just doesn't make sense to me. By acknowledging the rumors, it seems to give it more attention. And then what are they going to do when the trade actually goes through? How are they going to explain that?
Could have been something leaked by the Ducks to try and up the asking price for Pronger. See if anyone will come out of nowhere and try and make a better offer.

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06-13-2009, 10:49 AM
  #69
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I'm not sold that Jack Johnson is near as much of a head case as he's being portrayed as. His dad may be an issue, but that only really lasts so long. I don't think any of us have any first or second hand information on the kid or his dad, so until I hear differently, I usually ignore topics like that.

My bigger concern is on the ice. He is the sort of guy I would want in return for Pronger. He hasn't come close to reaching his potential at all, and I'm not 100% sure he'll ever be a franchise sort of guy. But, I'm not ready to write him off yet. Not even close. He's still extremely early in his development, and we seem to forget that d-men typically develop much more slowly than other positions.

Bottom line, I'd take that JMFJ+5th overall deal. I'd also strongly, strongly consider JMFJ and Frolov for Pronger and Miller. Most of us were jerking off over getting Alzner or Carlson from Washington for Pronger. I know we're supposed to hate anything and everything related to the Kings, but I value Johnson as high as those guys, and I think he'd be a reasonable return for Pronger.

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06-13-2009, 11:28 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
Here's a crazy conspiracy theory. Maybe one of the teams needs to lay off people. Maybe they also don't like rumors being leaked. So that team gave the info to only a few people to try to find the leak.

I just don't understand why all the involved parties would deny it like that. The "it's real but they just don't want it to upstage the finals" line of reasoning just doesn't make sense to me. By acknowledging the rumors, it seems to give it more attention. And then what are they going to do when the trade actually goes through? How are they going to explain that?
Some reporter from TSN or something was having an interview with Daryl Sutter and said brought up how either their sources told them or they just sort of figured that the Flames would pursue a big centerman, a puck moving defenseman and a backup goalie at the deadline, and Sutter said that was entirely false and he was content with the team he had.

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06-13-2009, 11:41 AM
  #71
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GMs have basicly 3 choices: admit it, deny it or say nothing.

The first one never happens and if they say nothing, it's good as admitting it. So they deny it.

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06-13-2009, 12:47 PM
  #72
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Well, this (if true) will pretty much guarantee one hell of an offseason. I'm indifferent on Jack Johnson but getting Schenn+Moore in the draft would be super sweet.

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06-13-2009, 01:08 PM
  #73
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The 5th pick could end up getting more assets. If Schenn is available at 5, and Burke isnt able to trade up for a top 2-3 pick, then we could trade the 5th for the Leaf's 7th and a 2nd round pick.

If Ottawa wants Oliver Ekman Larsson and thinks Dallas might pick him before them, then the ducks could also trade down from 7th to 9th for more assets.

The 9th, 15th, and two 2nd round pick would be nice.

As for JJ, if he can channel his focus on hockey and not contracts, he can show the teams that traded him wrong.

With the money saved, the ducks can attempt to a star like Boumeester, and Hossa (if the Wing pass on him).

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06-13-2009, 01:30 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
Could have been something leaked by the Ducks to try and up the asking price for Pronger. See if anyone will come out of nowhere and try and make a better offer.
A possibility. But then I have to wonder a) Would that piss other GMs off if Murray's making things up? (like Lombardi and the GM he bilked). And b) how useful is it if they deny the rumor so soon? Why not just leave it out there for awhile so other teams will bite? Unless it's just because Lombardi already denied it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leopold Stotch View Post
Some reporter from TSN or something was having an interview with Daryl Sutter and said brought up how either their sources told them or they just sort of figured that the Flames would pursue a big centerman, a puck moving defenseman and a backup goalie at the deadline, and Sutter said that was entirely false and he was content with the team he had.
You have a point. I just don't see any gain for it. I'm sure GMs lie all the time, but there's got to be some reason for it. Then again there was Burke and "Fedorov will not be traded."
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Originally Posted by kenabnrmal View Post
I'm not sold that Jack Johnson is near as much of a head case as he's being portrayed as. His dad may be an issue, but that only really lasts so long. I don't think any of us have any first or second hand information on the kid or his dad, so until I hear differently, I usually ignore topics like that.

My bigger concern is on the ice. He is the sort of guy I would want in return for Pronger. He hasn't come close to reaching his potential at all, and I'm not 100% sure he'll ever be a franchise sort of guy. But, I'm not ready to write him off yet. Not even close. He's still extremely early in his development, and we seem to forget that d-men typically develop much more slowly than other positions.

Bottom line, I'd take that JMFJ+5th overall deal. I'd also strongly, strongly consider JMFJ and Frolov for Pronger and Miller. Most of us were jerking off over getting Alzner or Carlson from Washington for Pronger. I know we're supposed to hate anything and everything related to the Kings, but I value Johnson as high as those guys, and I think he'd be a reasonable return for Pronger.
I also don't really believe the headcase thing. I think Carolina was a case of him wanting to stay in college and Carolina getting antsy. Here it seems to be Lombardi's always getting into salary disputes with his secondary players. Like Cammalleri.

Although you have to admit there have been a lot of hints. Rumored disputes in college. Burke hinting at his interview vs Ryan. Some stuff around draft combine. I think some people said that the Gare Joyce book had rumors too?

What I do see, though, is a little bit of ego going on there. I just get that sense from interviews and 2nd hand accounts. Even from the "jackjohnsonfan" poster or whatever who seems to be trying to pimp him (if you believe him), you kind of sense an ego there. That would fit in with things like KHL-flirtation, or 5 million dollar contract expectations.

On the ice, though, I see a really risky, yet high-reward player. I see lots of tools, and someone who hasn't yet put it together. Kind of like our QP a year ago actually.

But as to Carlson/Alzner... I do have to say that I much prefer that type of prospect. One who has less of a downside. Johnson's college stats and NHL play seems to suggest a risky offensive type. Carlson/Alzner are safer 2-way or defensive types. Although I guess that's what the 5th OA is for.

Honestly despite my dislike for Johnson, 5th OA + Johnson seems a tad high. I'd expect something more like 5th OA + Johnson for Pronger + 2nd.


Which package seems best for us (yet still possible)? Johnson + 5th? Doughty straight up? Frolov + filler (2nd?)? Some combo of youth (say 2 out of Simmonds/Moller/Teubert/Hickey/Quick)?


I would be pretty excited about the 5th though. Schenn/Kane/MPS. Maybe Cowen. Maybe package 15 + 5 for Duchene (I don't think it's quite enough for Tavares/Hedman).

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06-13-2009, 01:35 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by cheesymc View Post
The 5th pick could end up getting more assets. If Schenn is available at 5, and Burke isnt able to trade up for a top 2-3 pick, then we could trade the 5th for the Leaf's 7th and a 2nd round pick.

If Ottawa wants Oliver Ekman Larsson and thinks Dallas might pick him before them, then the ducks could also trade down from 7th to 9th for more assets.

The 9th, 15th, and two 2nd round pick would be nice.

As for JJ, if he can channel his focus on hockey and not contracts, he can show the teams that traded him wrong.

With the money saved, the ducks can attempt to a star like Boumeester, and Hossa (if the Wing pass on him).
I don't know that I like trading down to 7 from 5 though. From what I've read there seems to be a tier from 3/4-6 (some see Duchene as a half step above). 7 is just outside of that. I don't think a high-ish, but not top 2nd rounder covers the tier drop.

Why else would Toronto fans be so insistent on moving up?

edit: Oh, and 5th OA also has a slim chance of winning the lottery and getting #2... for the leftover of Tavares/Hedman.


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