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Robert Esche Back To Philly? (Update: Esche to remain in the KHL, post #162)

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Old
06-17-2009, 10:34 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Boucher also had a really good team in front of him.
Doesn't really change much about the fact that he stopped nearly 92% of the shots he let through. The Flyers are a pretty good team too. Boucher has recently proven he can be a very effective 20-25 game backup. Esche has been in Russia. There's really no reason to take that risk when you can avoid it.

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06-17-2009, 10:35 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by DeadPhish5858 View Post
Boucher also had a really good team in front of him.
Yes, he most certainly did.

CantSee, despite your name you've seen enough of Boucher to know that he is what he is. He can be stellar for a stretch and then equally abysmal for another stretch. The same can be said for Rebound Rob.

Boucher has been here twice. IMO we don't need a third installment of Boosh.

But, if you want to compare numbers alone, I'd rather take Clemmesen who put up a GAA of 2.39 and a save %age of .917 in 40 games or Craig Andrerson who put up a better save %age on a much weaker Florida team over 31 games over Boucher.


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06-17-2009, 12:34 PM
  #128
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The problem is going to come down to money. Flyers won't pay, nor should they, a lot for a back-up type goalie who thinks they should be a starter.

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06-17-2009, 12:56 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Yes, he most certainly did.

CantSee, despite your name you've seen enough of Boucher to know that he is what he is. He can be stellar for a stretch and then equally abysmal for another stretch. The same can be said for Rebound Rob.

Boucher has been here twice. IMO we don't need a third installment of Boosh.

But, if you want to compare numbers alone, I'd rather take Clemmesen who put up a GAA of 2.39 and a save %age of .917 in 40 games or Craig Andrerson who put up a better save %age on a much weaker Florida team over 31 games over Boucher.
I'd take both of those guys too. I just don't see why we're entertaining the risk of a guy from Russia when so many more proven options are in front of us. Save Esche for the slim possibility of going into August without a backup signed yet.

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06-17-2009, 01:13 PM
  #130
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I'd take both of those guys too. I just don't see why we're entertaining the risk of a guy from Russia when so many more proven options are in front of us. Save Esche for the slim possibility of going into August without a backup signed yet.
I can't argue with you there. Personally I don't want either Boucher or Rebound Rob.

The problem that Homer has is that he signed a starting goaltender for $1.5 million, which really limits what he can spend on a backup. As a result, any of the guys mentioned may not be attainable so we all may have to lower our expectations of who will be Emery's backup.

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06-17-2009, 07:52 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
I can't argue with you there. Personally I don't want either Boucher or Rebound Rob.

The problem that Homer has is that he signed a starting goaltender for $1.5 million, which really limits what he can spend on a backup. As a result, any of the guys mentioned may not be attainable so we all may have to lower our expectations of who will be Emery's backup.
I don't get what you mean. $1.5 for a starting goalie in the NHL is a bargain which would in theory give Homer lots of options. It would be the cap situation in general that might prevent the signing of guys like Anderson, etc. not the cost of our "starter" Ray Emery.

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06-17-2009, 08:02 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
I don't get what you mean. $1.5 for a starting goalie in the NHL is a bargain which would in theory give Homer lots of options. It would be the cap situation in general that might prevent the signing of guys like Anderson, etc. not the cost of our "starter" Ray Emery.
I think some people are of the mindset that you can't pay someone much more than you pay Emery cause it will be a problem for him. I disagree with that but at the same time a guy like Anderson is another Biron situation, a backup who wants to be a starter, and they get over paid for what they bring

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06-17-2009, 09:36 PM
  #133
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I think some people are of the mindset that you can't pay someone much more than you pay Emery cause it will be a problem for him. I disagree with that but at the same time a guy like Anderson is another Biron situation, a backup who wants to be a starter, and they get over paid for what they bring
I'm with you in the belief that Homer can spend more for the second signed goalie -- BTW, Emery has not been handed the #1 job, he must compete... and if they sign a goalie better suited for the #1, so bet it.

I still think that Homer would sign Marty if he accepts the money presently on the table, whatever that figure may be... In that case, Emery's contract fits in the backup range, give or take around Nitty's last one.

... I've been thinking, and I've come to the conclusion that I'd be happy with Esche if he can be released from his Russian contract... and Marty or Nitty is passed on. In that case I would count on Emery being given a long hard chance at the #1, and Esche a chance to prove he should be #1 through taking advantage of his starts... Esche, much like Nitty, was one that proved that he could carry a club for considerable stretches in the past... Maybe he has improved to a point where he is consistent over the course of an entire season. From what I understand, his Russian club wants a goalie back, if he released, to take his spot on their roster... Good luck with that.


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06-18-2009, 08:39 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Mountaineer View Post
I don't get what you mean. $1.5 for a starting goalie in the NHL is a bargain which would in theory give Homer lots of options. It would be the cap situation in general that might prevent the signing of guys like Anderson, etc. not the cost of our "starter" Ray Emery.
Yes, $1.5 million is a bargain for a starting goaltender. With that in mind how can you then go out and pay more for a backup who will play in fewer games? I can't think of many, if any situations, where a backup player would make more than a starter.

To those that say that you can, we can agree to disagree, but, IMO a starter's salary then dictates (along with the salary cap) what the team will pay for a backup. I would be very surprised if Homer signs an Anderson, Clemmensen, Boucher type and expect them to sign a player like Munroe or LeNeveu who they can sign for the league minimum, thus creating more cap room for a J-Bow type signing.

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06-18-2009, 08:50 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Yes, $1.5 million is a bargain for a starting goaltender. With that in mind how can you then go out and pay more for a backup who will play in fewer games? I can't think of many, if any situations, where a backup player would make more than a starter.

To those that say that you can, we can agree to disagree, but, IMO a starter's salary then dictates (along with the salary cap) what the team will pay for a backup. I would be very surprised if Homer signs an Anderson, Clemmensen, Boucher type and expect them to sign a player like Munroe or LeNeveu who they can sign for the league minimum, thus creating more cap room for a J-Bow type signing.
Why can't you spend more? Emery knows his situation. He was booted out of the league and had to re-invent his character to make himself wanted again. He's being given an opportunity to prove himself. Any back-up they sign will more likely be proven and so they can pay the back-up more. This isn't a money thing with Emery, it is about showing that he can get back in the league and THEN it'll be about the money.

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06-18-2009, 09:04 AM
  #136
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Why can't you spend more? Emery knows his situation. He was booted out of the league and had to re-invent his character to make himself wanted again. He's being given an opportunity to prove himself. Any back-up they sign will more likely be proven and so they can pay the back-up more. This isn't a money thing with Emery, it is about showing that he can get back in the league and THEN it'll be about the money.
This is my opinion and I've stated why. You've stated your opinion and stated why.

Again we'll have to agree to disagree and we'll see who Homer signs as their backup. To me it speaks volumes that Homer even mentioned that Neil Little thinks that Scott Munroe is capable of being an NHL backup and the fact that there hasn't been any mention of him targeting a proven NHL backup. Based on their salary cap issues and wanting to take a run at J-Bow, signing a cheap backup IMO is the direction that Homer will go.


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06-18-2009, 10:32 AM
  #137
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Originally Posted by ToTheNet View Post
Why can't you spend more? Emery knows his situation. He was booted out of the league and had to re-invent his character to make himself wanted again. He's being given an opportunity to prove himself. Any back-up they sign will more likely be proven and so they can pay the back-up more. This isn't a money thing with Emery, it is about showing that he can get back in the league and THEN it'll be about the money.
You can't pay the back-up more because the whole point behind signing Emery is to save money at the goaltender position. It lacks a ton of logic to pay your back-up more than your starter. Even if we brought back Nitty, he won't get more than Emery.

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06-18-2009, 10:44 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
This is my opinion and I've stated why. You've stated your opinion and stated why.

Again we'll have to agree to disagree and we'll see who Homer signs as their backup. To me it speaks volumes that Homer even mentioned that Neil Little thinks that Scott Munroe is capable of being an NHL backup and the fact that there hasn't been any mention of him targeting a proven NHL backup. Based on their salary cap issues and wanting to take a run at J-Bow, signing a cheap backup IMO is the direction that Homer will go.
I believe I heard that Homer pretty much ruled out Munroe as the backup... And wasn't he talking about Munroe in that PC about his offering him a Two-Way, and that a team offering a One-Way having an upper hand in signing him? (greatly paraphrased)

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06-18-2009, 11:51 AM
  #139
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I believe I heard that Homer pretty much ruled out Munroe as the backup... And wasn't he talking about Munroe in that PC about his offering him a Two-Way, and that a team offering a One-Way having an upper hand in signing him? (greatly paraphrased)
And GM's never say one thing and do exactly what they said they wouldn't do?

I don't think that Munroe is going to get a 1-way deal anywhere (unless of course it's a 1-way AHL deal). But, as I mentioned, Litts was the one that stated that Munroe could be an NHL backup and certainly his pricetag would be right for a cap stricken team like the Flyers.

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06-18-2009, 11:56 AM
  #140
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I just wish they would sign Nitty and be done with all this. Emery-Nitty is not that bad.

If not get someone young, Pavelec or Harding. I dont understand the point in getting Boucher or some other old vetran. We have an opprotunity to breed a young goalie, why waste it now.

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06-18-2009, 11:58 AM
  #141
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I'm all for trading for a young goalie like Pavelec or Harding.

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06-18-2009, 12:22 PM
  #142
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I'm all for trading for a young goalie like Pavelec or Harding.
To quote Ricky Watters, For Who, For What?

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06-18-2009, 02:07 PM
  #143
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And GM's never say one thing and do exactly what they said they wouldn't do?

I don't think that Munroe is going to get a 1-way deal anywhere (unless of course it's a 1-way AHL deal). But, as I mentioned, Litts was the one that stated that Munroe could be an NHL backup and certainly his pricetag would be right for a cap stricken team like the Flyers.
Yes, they sometimes do... But Homer is an overly honest man; I'd see him more likely avoid the answer, or leave the issue open, then pull the old diversionary lie trick.

I don't doubt that Munroe could be a backup here... but I would think that it would be on a team where the #1 is a more secure and established one, where the #1 would be ticketed for almost all the games with a one game spelling scattered in... and the team would have a veteran in the farm who could be called up if a long stretch is required due to injury.

The Flyers have an on trial goalie with only a couple of years NHL #1 experience, and a record of past discords that he has to avoid reoccurring... The Flyers being "Cap Stricken" is all the more reason to have a lower priced mid-range talent veteran as a backup, since there would be little money to bring in one in a pinch at a later date, should injury or failure arise.

I see Nitty, Esche or Boosch as being goalies that fit the bill... Munroe I see as a better depth player on this team that can be the backup if a roster goalie in injured... or on another team that has an established #1 who plays a boatload of games (Devils, etc).

But we can agree to disagree... that is okay with me.

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06-18-2009, 02:36 PM
  #144
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Yes, they sometimes do... But Homer is an overly honest man; I'd see him more likely avoid the answer, or leave the issue open, then pull the old diversionary lie trick.

I don't doubt that Munroe could be a backup here... but I would think that it would be on a team where the #1 is a more secure and established one, where the #1 would be ticketed for almost all the games with a one game spelling scattered in... and the team would have a veteran in the farm who could be called up if a long stretch is required due to injury.

The Flyers have an on trial goalie with only a couple of years NHL #1 experience, and a record of past discords that he has to avoid reoccurring... The Flyers being "Cap Stricken" is all the more reason to have a lower priced mid-range talent veteran as a backup, since there would be little money to bring in one in a pinch at a later date, should injury or failure arise.

I see Nitty, Esche or Boosch as being goalies that fit the bill... Munroe I see as a better depth player on this team that can be the backup if a roster goalie in injured... or on another team that has an established #1 who plays a boatload of games (Devils, etc).

But we can agree to disagree... that is okay with me.
Needless to say I would trust Neil Little's assessment of a goaltender more than I would trust my own, but I've watched quite a few of Munroe's AHL games and I think he would get lit up at the NHL level. Honestly I would feel really uncomfortable with him as the Flyers backup.

And, yep we'll agree to disagree on what the effect the Flyers being cap stricken has on their backup goalie decision. It's all good. If the choice is sign a cheap backup or J-Bow I'd opt for J-Bow, deal with the goaltending situation next off-season and hope that Emery and the cheap" backup are diamonds in the rough.


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06-18-2009, 02:56 PM
  #145
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Needless to say I would trust Neil Little's assessment of a goaltender more than I would trust my own, but I've watched quite a few of Munroe's AHL games and I think he would get lit up at the NHL level. Honestly I would feel really uncomfortable with him as the Flyers backup.

And, yep we'll agree to disagree on what the effect the Flyers being cap stricken has on their backup goalie decision. It's all good. If the choice is sign a cheap backup or J-Bow I'd opt for J-Bow, deal with the goaltending situation next off-season and hope that Emery and the cheap" backup are diamonds in the rough.
I guess we agree on Munroe not being the correct backup choice... I just feel that Homer agrees with us, no matter what his coach (Little) advises, and I believe that Homer isn't being deceptive.

We also agree that maybe going cheap with the backup is the way to go -- if Emery is to be the #1 -- in order to shore up the back line... I do however feel that they need a veteran cheapie, and that they can and may spend slightly higher than Emery's contract for the #2.

When I look at it, we are agreeing to disagree on little, and we agree to agree on much.

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06-18-2009, 05:29 PM
  #146
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The problem is going to come down to money. Flyers won't pay, nor should they, a lot for a back-up type goalie who thinks they should be a starter.
They just did

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06-18-2009, 06:07 PM
  #147
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They just did
The last time I can recall the Flyers obtaining a #1 goalie on the upswing was when they brought back Bernie Parent... Can anybody think of any? Phil Myre?... I know, Jeff (I can't) Hackett!!!!!

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06-18-2009, 06:15 PM
  #148
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The last time I can recall the Flyers obtaining a #1 goalie on the upswing was when they brought back Bernie Parent... Can anybody think of any? Phil Myre?... I know, Jeff (I can't) Hackett!!!!!
If you mean best days came after the Flyers acquired him compared to prior in his career, then I wouldn't categorize Myre on the upswing. He was established as part of a good duo with Dan Bouchard in Atlanta before moving onto St. Louis.

Wayne Stephenson and Ken Wregget, maybe? Debatable. Good question. Not numbers ones when acquired, but played as such at times.

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06-18-2009, 06:43 PM
  #149
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If you mean best days came after the Flyers acquired him compared to prior in his career, then I wouldn't categorize Myre on the upswing. He was established as part of a good duo with Dan Bouchard in Atlanta before moving onto St. Louis.

Wayne Stephenson and Ken Wregget, maybe? Debatable. Good question. Not numbers ones when acquired, but played as such at times.
I guess by upswing I mean... not washed up or seriously on the downswing.

I thought of Wregget, but passed... Stepenson I didn't mention because I considered him a #2; he wasn't a #1 before and Bernie's injury made him a #1 by default, as he took over in the backup role... as was his job. But he was on the upswing, I agree.

I agree that Myre's better days had passed, but he was not washed up, or brought in as a veteran backup/tutor such as Chico Resch.

Beezer? Burke?... I was never fans of those two... Neither were on the upswing either.

The Flyers developed good goalies (Peeters, Pelle, Hexy) in the early/mid-periods, but I only see them bringing in Bernie as a good acquisition... Except for Stepenson to back him up, and Myre and Wregget maybe... Briere? Kinda/sorta.

I hope down the line we can include Emery.




EDIT: To help with our discussion... here are the Flyers Goalies.

B
Stéphane Beauregard
Michel Belhumeur
Martin Biron
Brian Boucher
Sean Burke
C
Roman Cechmanek
Frédéric Chabot
D
Marc D'Amour
E
Robert Esche
F
Doug Favell
Bob Froese
G
Bruce Gamble
H
Jeff Hackett
Ron Hextall
Bruce Hoffort
Martin Houle
I
Gary Inness
J
Darren Jensen
L
Mark LaForest
Michel Larocque
Michael Leighton
Pelle Lindbergh
Neil Little
M
Don McLeod
Robbie Moore
Jerry Mrazek
Phil Myre
N
Antero Niittymaki
O
Maxime Ouellet
P
Bernard Parent
Pete Peeters
Jean-Marc Pelletier
R
Glenn Resch
Dominic Roussel
S
Garth Snow
Tommy Soderstrom
Rick St.Croix
Wayne Stephenson
T
Bobby Taylor
V
John Vanbiesbrouck
W
Dunc Wilson
Ken Wregget
Y
Wendell Young


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06-18-2009, 06:54 PM
  #150
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I guess by upswing I mean... not washed up or seriously on the downswing.
By this definition, wouldn't Biron be the last one?


As an aside, I miss Soderstrom.

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